Apocryphal Rules Errata, Whether revoked or of forign origin this errata may not be official. Options

[Mantis]

Just got a bit colder in hell, because I finally managed to find enough time to put together the stuff from Arsenal 2070: http://www.scribd.com/doc/57395589/German-Extras


I tried to keep the fluff descriptions short and with emphasis on info relevant for gameplay, if you want the full fluff buy the books (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Cool and thanks. Any chance you can do this with Augmentation and Unwired as well? And I'm not going to buy the German versions of the books. I've already bought the English versions. Catalyst only gets my money once. Well twice in the case of Street Magic but the second time was a PDF. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/spin.gif)

[Sengir]

Catalyst only gets my money once. Well twice in the case of Street Magic but the second time was a PDF. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/spin.gif)

The German books are published by Pegasus Spiele, who are not just another imprint of IMR but an independent gaming publisher. And as far as Shadowrun is concerned (don't know about their other stuff) a very good publisher...even more so in the last year, where Pegasus cleaned up some of the mess IMR put out. Plus the Berlin book, which was truly great.

And yes, the extra stuff from Augmentation is on the todo list, too

[KarmaInferno]

Technically, as long as you present the descriptive parts in your own words, copyright laws should not apply.

You can't copyright rules mechanics. They fail the "creative" requirement.

Really, any bits of a game that can be put into a spreadsheet and crunched through mathematical formulas while still retaining all their meaning will have a hard time being proven as "creative works".

You should be able to patent them, but how many game companies patent their stuff? Aside from WotC and their card games, of course.



-k

[darthmord]

Character generators with that kind of information have been around for some time, so I do not expect to get any trouble for it...and I've got a cover page on my todo list, that will of course have the usual legalese and credits. And all those widows are on that list, too.

PS: MJ, you still got it wrong (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)
The 10% Essence discount from cybersuites is added to other modifiers. The 10% price discount is multiplied.
And that kind of confusion is exactly why I hate this change...

Which is precisely why I require all Essence modifiers to be summed first and then multiplied against the base Essence cost.

So a Deltaware Suite would give a 60% discount (1x - .5x - .1x = .4x base Essence Cost) to the base Essence cost. Mathematically it works out like it should too. Follows the EBMDAS rules.

[Mantis]

The German books are published by Pegasus Spiele, who are not just another imprint of IMR but an independent gaming publisher. And as far as Shadowrun is concerned (don't know about their other stuff) a very good publisher...even more so in the last year, where Pegasus cleaned up some of the mess IMR put out. Plus the Berlin book, which was truly great.

Yeah I know that but I don't speak or read German either so they still wouldn't do me much good. I'm glad someone gets a good publisher for Shadowrun though.

And yes, the extra stuff from Augmentation is on the todo list, too

Thanks a lot for this stuff. I don't know why this stuff from Arsenal didn't make the cut over here. There doesn't seem to be anything unbalancing in what has been posted.

[Tycho]

So what I am posting here is a list of suggestions that were made to change War! I don't know if thats all the changes that were made in Fronteinsatz nor if all of these made it to the book (someone with Fronteinsatz has to check that)

page reference is for War!:

p. 133: Salary: The Salery is including Base Housing and Food

p. 153: Victorinox SmartStaff: Can be used with Skinlink or Cable (even if Cable is kind of senseless)

p.154: Ares Bravo: add Extreme Environment Mod 1

p.155: Ares HVBR: The High Velocity Weapon needs to have the FA firemode.

p.156: High-Power Chambering: There should be a box stating that the Ruger Super WarHawk (Core Rules p.317) has High-Power Chambering.

p.157: Monofilament Grenade: price change?

p.160: YNT Soft Weave Armor: price change?

p.162: MRSI Software: only adds 1/2 of the DV from the second round

p.163: Barrier Foam: There should be are rule, that there Barrier gets 1 damage (unresisted) with every attack.

p.163: Emergency Field Dressing: There should be a notice that extensive use leads to addiction. availability of 6, price of 500¥

p.164: Adrenal Regulator: instead of lowering the threshold by 2 you get +2 dice on compulsion rolls

p.164: Hedgehog: Availability 22R, cost 15,000¥

p.165: Ares Coyote (Medium Combat Drone): add Tracked Vehicle 1

p.166: Mitsuhama Chinpira (Large Walker Combat Drone): add Walker Mode

p.166: Wuxing Hussar (Large Combat Drone): add Tracked Vehicle 2

p.168: Ares Ocelot Assault Tank: smartarmor rating is 7 Life Support 2 should be added

p.168: Aztechnology Cuanmitztli Main Battle Tank: change Armor to 28, smartarmor rating 10, Life Support 2 should be added

p.168: CI-131 Mobile Headquarters: Life Support 2 should be added

p.168: KM-3103 Kreutzritter Mobile Support Gun: Life Support 2 should be added

p.168: Mitsuhama Okami Infantry Fighting Vehicle: Life Support 2 should be added

p.169: Shiawase Hephaestus A-2 Fast Attack Vehicle: Life Support 1 should be added

p.169: Wuxing Ferret Heavy Mortar Carrier: Life Support 2 should be added

p.169: YNT Pushka Okne Tank: Life Support 2 should be added

p.169: CI-89 Vicious Fighter-Bomber: Life Support 2 should be added

p.169: GMC Thunderhawk Ground Assault T-Bird: Life Support 2 should be added

p.170: Izom Fantôme Attack Helicopter: Life Support 2 should be added

p.170: Ruhrmetall Vogelhund Air Defense Vehicle: Life Support 2 should be added; should be moved to Ground Vehicle.

p.170: Walker Aerial Refueling Plane: Life Support 2 should be added

p.170: Yamatetsu Tenshi Assault Personnel Carrier: Life Support 2 and improved takeoff
and landing (Level 2) should be added

p.170: YNT Kanyuk Interceptor: Life Support 2 should be added

p.172: Central Industries Tortuga-Class Cruiser: No Ballast Tanks! Life Support 1 should be added

p.173: Harland & Wolf Blackjack-Class Destroyer: No Ballast Tanks! Life Support 1 should be added

p.173: KM Jagdpferd-Class Missile Boat: No Ballast Tanks! Life Support 1 should be added

p.173: Kvaerner-Maersk Haukhekker-Class Drone Carrier: Life Support 1 should be added

p.173: MosTrans Colombo-Class Cargo Ship: No Ballast Tanks!

p.173: Shiawase Hikigaeru-Class Amphibious Assault Carrier: No Ballast Tanks! Life Support 1 should be added

p.173: YNT Shibanokuji-Class Aircraft Carrier: No Ballast Tanks! Life Support 1 should be added

p.173: Heavy Mortar, Howitzer: Scatter reduced by one dice
Heavy Mortar 2D6 x 5 meters
Howitzer 3D6 x 10 meters

p.174: cruise missiles can be fired from aircraft if two reinforced external weapon mounts are dedicated to holding the missile

p.178: Designate: it only works with missiles that have been prepared to work with a specific mage’s signature—thus giving that mage access to the targeting system

p.178: Recharge: There should be a restriction that this only works on handheld devices


The following corrections are for the MilSpecTech (same as above):

p.5: GMC MPUV: add: Searchlight, Winch(standard), optional Weapon Mount (external, turret, armored manned)

p.6: FERRARI “APPALOOSA”: add Life Support 2;

p.7: LAV-98 “DEVIL RAT”: add Extra Entry/Exit Point, Searchlight, Smoke Generator, Life Support 2; Weapon Mount should be a turret instead of flexible.

p.8: LAV-103 “STRIKER”: add Searchlight, Smoke Generator, Life Support 2;

p.9: CAS/GD STONEWALL MAIN BATTLE TANK: add Life Support 2, improved take off and landing 2;

p.10: BAE CENTURION: add Life Support 2, improved take off and landing 2;

p.11: AZTECHNOLOGY LOBO: add Life Support (Level 2), Reinforced Weapons Mount (external, heavy turret, armored manual), improved take off and landing 2;

p.12: GMC “HARPY SCOUT”: add Life Support 2, Reinforced Weapons Mount (external, heavy turret), Weapons Mount (fixed: Designator), improved take off and landing 2;

p.13: EFA VARIANTS: add Life Support 2,

p.14: AZTECHNOLOGY HALCON: add Life Support 2,

p.15: C-260 TITAN: add Life Support 2,

p.16: MOONLIGHT AVENGER: add Life Support 2,

p.24: FEDERATED-BOEING UNICORN: add improved take off and landing 1;

p. 27: FEDERATED-BOEING WOODSTOCK: add Life Support 2,

p.28: NISSAN HOUND: add Life Support 2,

p.31: MARINE TECHNOLOGIES AHUITZOTL: add Life Support 2,

p.32: DASSAULT PAYNAL: add Life Support 2, Weapon mounts should be reinforced

p.33: AZTECHNOLOGY ATLACAMANI: add ECM and ECCM, Life Support 2,

p.34: ESPRIT CAMAXTLI: add Life Support 2,

p.36: AZTECHNOLOGY HUITZILOPOCHTLI: Weapon mounts should be reinforced


So, guess that will make things easier for those to check the book for changes...

cya
Tycho

[Stahlseele]

That's a lot of nuts! o.o
Huit says it has a Waffenhalterung in Fronteinsatz.
Nothing else, no verstärkt, no groß, simply Waffenhalterung.

[Sengir]

So a Deltaware Suite would give a 60% discount (1x - .5x - .1x = .4x base Essence Cost) to the base Essence cost. Mathematically it works out like it should too. Follows the EBMDAS rules.

And if two modifiers gave 50% you would hand out stuff for free (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
But consistently using odd percentage math is still better than a bit of this and a bit of that.


@Mantis: All of that stuff DID make the cut, because Pegasus has to get CGL's approval for any change they do.

[Mantis]

@ Sengir: Well in Germany it made the cut. I meant why didn't it make the North American cut. Those things aren't in any version of Arsenal I've seen printed here. Stop making me wish I was German.

@Tycho: Wow! I didn't realize there was so many errors in War!. I've got the book but haven't really gone through it yet. No need for it in the campaign we are running at this point. Thanks for posting this though. Would it be so hard for Catalyst to post these as errata? Or corrected PDFs?

[Ghost_in_the_Sys...]

Stop making me wish I was German.

Sorry, that's just not possible.

[Stahlseele]

@ Sengir: Well in Germany it made the cut. I meant why didn't it make the North American cut. Those things aren't in any version of Arsenal I've seen printed here. Stop making me wish I was German.

@Tycho: Wow! I didn't realize there was so many errors in War!. I've got the book but haven't really gone through it yet. No need for it in the campaign we are running at this point. Thanks for posting this though. Would it be so hard for Catalyst to post these as errata? Or corrected PDFs?

looks like it, because as far as i understood, these errata are errata that CGL already has, but simply does not release for some reason or other . .

[Tycho]

@Mantis: Still, all the additional Equipment in the German Arsenal was approved bei CGL and they should have a English Translation. Maybe it is in the "new" version of the Arsenal, since they already use the German Cover Art, maybe they also put the stuff in there.

Yeah, It is kind of sad, that CGL obviously doesn't care enough to simple release a errata they more or less are given freely by the German publishers. It is not that much work to polish it and put it on the homepage.

The stuff I posted is not even all I would have liked them to change. For Example: If you compare Anti-Tank Ammo with Anti-Vehicle Ammo, you will realize, that the edge of Anti-Tank Ammo is, that it is more effective against human targets, so I guess Anti-Person Ammo would be a more accurate name. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

The Anti Tank Mine is not able to damage a Main Battle Tank, even if they reduced the armor to 28, because then the damage still does not exceed the armor (DV18 vs Armor 18 -> no damage). And you need like 10 Anti Tank Missles to kill a MBT. a Howitzer will scatter so much, that you need 13hits to compensate average scatter. But it would be able to kill the MBT, if you could hit one without being a superhuman gunner.

So it is not like the stuff above is the only one in need of improvement.

cya
Tycho

[Stahlseele]

Well, the Mine depends on wether or not the chunky salsa rules apply between earth and the tank.
Or if the usual double damage against barriers from demolitions comes into play . .

[Tycho]

a tank is not a barrier and these rules are for breaching a hole into a wall or something.

cya
Tycho

[Draco18s]

a tank is not a barrier and these rules are for breaching a hole into a wall or something.

...So you can't use the breaching rules to breach holes in tanks?

[Yerameyahu]

Only if the tank is already 'dead'. Until then, you can only target it to do damage, or attempt to shoot passengers (with a tank, the book's 'GM decides if you can' clause applies). A dead tank is a barrier, though. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Mantis]

@Tycho: Should the Ruger Super Warhawk really be High Power ammo converted? If so then shouldn't the damage be 7P -2 AP? This would be based on the basic weapon being a heavy pistol (5P -1 AP). I have always seen this as more of a Dirty Harry style over powered revolver than a converted revolver and have never allowed players to use ammo for one in another heavy pistol.
I don't know what to say about the anti tank mine. Not really anti-tank at all is it? Or maybe the idea was it was intended more for APCs and such rather than an actual MBT. Who knows.

@Sengir: I was looking over the Arsenal stuff you posted and noticed you include the stats for the Trollhammer bike 3 times. You must really like it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) . The Electrocar seems to have a rather slow speed listed (10). I'm guessing it should have been 100. The only other thing was the similar models for the Igel and the Electrocar are the same. Should be different shouldn't they?

[Sengir]

@Sengir: I was looking over the Arsenal stuff you posted and noticed you include the stats for the Trollhammer bike 3 times. You must really like it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) . The Electrocar seems to have a rather slow speed listed (10). I'm guessing it should have been 100. The only other thing was the similar models for the Igel and the Electrocar are the same. Should be different shouldn't they?

Thanks for the corrections (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
The similar models are however not my fault, it is written like that in the book - hence the two lines are in red.

New version is up, includes your feedback, links to RabenAAS' artwork as far as publically available, some layout stuff, copyright information, and a little rant about how CGL is doing poor fan service (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
Feel free to point out glaring mistakes, I was in a bit of a hurry because I wanted to get this one done before leaving for tonight.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/57595963/German-extra-content

[CanRay]

@Tycho: Wow! I didn't realize there was so many errors in War!. I've got the book but haven't really gone through it yet. No need for it in the campaign we are running at this point. Thanks for posting this though. Would it be so hard for Catalyst to post these as errata? Or corrected PDFs?

Errata? From CGL? Now you're just spouting crazy talk! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[suoq]

I'm afraid that if they ever do issue errata, it will simply confuse the issue more.

SR4 said "X", but Unwired changed that to "Y" but SR4A corrected SR4 to "Z" without taking into account Y and now there's an errata that basically says "J" for no apparent reason that doesn't meld very well with anything. Given time, I expect them to reclassify "capacity" as "device rating".

[Mantis]

Thanks for the corrections (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
The similar models are however not my fault, it is written like that in the book - hence the two lines are in red.

New version is up, includes your feedback, links to RabenAAS' artwork as far as publically available, some layout stuff, copyright information, and a little rant about how CGL is doing poor fan service (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
Feel free to point out glaring mistakes, I was in a bit of a hurry because I wanted to get this one done before leaving for tonight.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/57595963/German-extra-content

Thanks for doing this. Are you still working on that War! in Russia book you have a blat about on Scrib'd? I know PDF editing and am an artist as well so I could fill both those roles. I just want to make sure I'm actually able to follow through on such a project. Sounds interesting though. Maybe PM me or something.

[Sengir]

Another update, this time I managed to actually update the file and keep the URL intact (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

Big change are the new cyber suites from Bodytech, as well as updated Essence costs for the old ones.

[Stahlseele]

Yay for more stuff! ^^

[Rotbart van Dain...]

Also, in the German version of Augmentation, any Nano-Cybernetic Anti-Biometric implant is rated 1-9.