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Aspected Magicians, Perhaps there are ways to simulate one?

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Fortune

Oct 11 2005, 10:19 PM

Post #26

Immoral Elf

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QUOTE (Azralon @ Oct 12 2005, 02:41 AM)

I think I'm with NightmareX. The advantage to being Aspected over Full should be cheaper BP cost of your magician-type Quality, under the premise that you can do fewer things than a Full. The saved points should let you afford more of whatever you've specialized in.

I suspect that the problem some folks are seeing is that if the difference between Full and Aspected is 5, 8, or even 10 points and is therefore so comparatively small, then why specialize? If you're saving only 10 points to be a pure Conjurer then you're giving up a whole lot of potential abilities for, say, +1 to an attribute. That doesn't seem like a fair swap.

I'll point out, though, that you're also not going to be spending points on your Sorcery skills nor your starting spells. So you're in effect "saving" those points too. A pure Sorcerer's savings would consist only of the Conjuring skills, so that sounds like it might actually be a "worse" deal. But hey, spells typically cost less drain than spirits, so it might be a wash.

Then someone could say that "well, I can save points on those anyway just by not picking them; I want a bonus for restricting myself in the long-term." My answer would be "If you intend on never conjuring ever, then take the three associated Incompetent qualities and here's your 'free' 15 BPs."

That might seem like "Hey, I can be an aspected mage for free!" but there's a more subtle expense going on. You used up 15 of your 35 possible Positive Quality points and 15 of your 35 possible Negatives as well. From a BP expense point of view, sure, that balances to a net difference. But you're restricting yourself in another way, and I find that equitable.

I see no problem with this idea.

I also see no real problem in just assigning the Aspected Magic Quality a 10 BP cost, and list in the description the limitation to one Magic Skill Group (although other non-Grouped Skills are still able to be learned) and Astral Perception. The Group that the character does not choose is treated as if he were a mundane, in that, like all Magic Skills, the Defaulting rules do not apply. But that's just me. :)

elbows View Member Profile	Oct 11 2005, 10:27 PM Post #27
Target Group: Members Posts: 50 Joined: 4-November 04 Member No.: 6,807	The ones who really lose out in this system are the elementalists and shamanic adepts (or whatever they're called in 3rd edition). They need to buy all the same skills that a full mage does, but they're a lot more limited in what they can do with them. And they can't get BP back by taking the Incompetent flaw. I'm not sure there's a good way to bring them back in SR4, which is too bad, because they were neat character types.

Xenith View Member Profile	Oct 12 2005, 01:13 AM Post #28
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 399 Joined: 27-May 04 Member No.: 6,361	I agree. They don't really have to be as powerful as they where back in SR3 and pervious editions, simply playable. I keep reading the qualities but I keep finding that theres little in the way of creating Shamanists or Elementalists. unfortunately, custom qualities might be what the doctor ordered. I'd say make Aspected Magicians be a 5 bp quality, with a certain defined specialization, using the classic definitions as a basis, but not necessarily the only options, and have only Astral Perception. While I'd be willing to play this as is, perhaps something to balance it is in order... I'm just not sure what it would be that wouldn't cancel out the 5 bp cost. [Edit: Perhaps a spirit bane for the opposing spirit type would work to gain a few more points back for the Elementalist or Shamanist. Also, for a Shamanist, if they have a bonus to a certain spirit or spell type, use the related spell type or spirit from the chart in the magic section for them. I think this would work, unless they receive multiple magic skill bonuses, a that point just use those only to determine their focus. eg- A spirit gives a +1 Athletics and +1 Manipultion spell bonus. Use the Manipulation type to determine which spirit they may summon. If another spirit gives a bonus to beast and Healing spells, then the Shamanist is only able to cast Healing spells and summon Beast spirits.]

NightmareX View Member Profile	Oct 12 2005, 05:03 AM Post #29
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 831 Joined: 5-September 05 From: LAX, UCAS Member No.: 7,687	Um, guys? Check the spoiler (The original post is buried a bit down on the first page of this thread, so it's easy to overlook) [ Spoiler ] Aspected Magician (7 bp positive quality) A character with this quality is an aspected magician and starts with a Magic attribute of 1. This may be increased like any other attribute, up to a maximum of 6 + initiation grade. A character with this quality cannot take the Adept, Mystic Adept, or Technomancer qualities. When this quality is taken, an aspect must be chosen for the character. An aspected magicians has only limited use of magical skills, depending on their aspect and cannot use magical skills not noted as available to their aspect. Available aspects include: * Sorcerer: An aspected sorcerer can cast spells and otherwise make use of all skills in the Sorcery skill group. * Conjurer: An aspected conjurer can conjure spirits and otherwise make use of all skills in the Conjuring skill group. * Tradionalist: An aspected traditionalist can use all magical skills, but only to in a limited fashion. They can cast spells of one choson category, and conjure (and bind) spirits that their tradition links to their chosen spell category. Aspected traditionalists who follow a mentor spirit must choose a category of spells for which they gain an advantage due to their mentor spirit. (Example - Ryker is a shamanic aspected traditionalist who follows the Wolf totem. Thus, he can cast only Combat spells and conjure only Beast spirits). Aspected traditionalists use the Banishing and Counterspelling skills normally. Like a full magician, each aspected magician follows a specific magical tradition that defines his worldview and how he perceives and manipulates magic. Aspected magicians may also have a mentor spirit as full magicians can. Aspected magicians can make use of astral perception (and can use the Assensing and Astral Combat skills normally), but they cannot astrally project in the fashion that a full magician can. Though this quality is inexpensive, gamemasters should be careful not to allow it to be abused. It should only be taken for characters that are intended to be played as magicians. I went with 7 bp for this because they get fewer abilities than a magician adept (10 bp), but more than an adept (5 bp). Kinda a halfway point. Admitedly, tradionalists in this model aren't really a discount (for the reasons elbows stated). Any ideas about how to fix that?

Fortune View Member Profile	Oct 12 2005, 08:24 AM Post #30
Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486	Personally, if I really felt the need to balance things out to the nth degree, I'd go with 10 BP for Sorcerers and Conjurors, and 5 BP for Shamanist or Elementalist-type characters. I don't like using 7, or other non-multiples of 5.

Gothic Rose View Member Profile	Oct 12 2005, 08:25 AM Post #31
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 355 Joined: 3-October 05 From: Ann Arbor, MI Member No.: 7,803	I agree, 10 (or even 5, I guess) is better than 7, because 7 doesn't jive with all the other qualities.

NightmareX

Oct 12 2005, 08:43 AM

Post #32

Moving Target

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QUOTE (Gothic Rose)

I agree, 10 (or even 5, I guess) is better than 7, because 7 doesn't jive with all the other qualities.

Very true, didn't think of it that way. 8)

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