So what happened in the end?, CGL, state of Dumpshock, etc. Options

[binarywraith]

Can't sell them. IIRC, the 1968 GCA made that illegal as they were designed as machine guns.

Oh, right. I always forget that the M14 is select fire, becuase there's no bloody reason for it to be. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/embarrassed.gif)

[Wounded Ronin]

Oh, right. I always forget that the M14 is select fire, becuase there's no bloody reason for it to be. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/embarrassed.gif)

I read in the Vietnam War memoir "Green Knight, Red Mourning" ( http://www.amazon.com/Green-Knight-Mournin...ht+red+mourning ) that the M14 in full auto, when fired into someone at point blank range, was capable of nearly ripping a man in half.

[sk8bcn]

Put this in perspective. The Shadowrun Returns kickstarter sold at least 38,276 copies in a single month, and has had much, much more in the way of sales on Steam since. 15k is barely a blip.

Hell, the My Little Pony comic issue last month sold just under 20k copies.

I feel really sorry for the folks who bought those first printing 5th ed hardcopies. It's a damn shame that they paid what, $60 for -that-.

It's a video game. You can't compare at all.

Some of the buyers may have played the Megadrive RPG or the XBox/PC game.

Some might have been Shadowrun GM but have no gaming group anymore.

Some might be player at the game (hence not buying books).


For 1 book sold, you have around 5 guys benefiting of it. In a video game, it doesn't work the same.

[Cain]

Another point: if people says SR is less popular now, I've read that CLG sold it's full 15 000 5th ed first prints. When you sell quickly your first pass, I guess it's a sign of a game beeing popular, no?

That's only sales to distributors. Actual retail sales aren't tracked through those numbers.

The fact that I can still find copies of SR5 on shelves is proof that all 15,000 copies weren't picked up by gamers.

SR5 was released to much hype, and it's common knowledge that the first release of a RPG core book sells the best, so distributors would be more willing to take a risk on them. So, you can't measure the actual popularity of a game based on distributor sales.

[Sengir]

if you are a ground fighter, operating more like an over armored helicopter than a fighter yet and never actually leave the airspace below 100m, then fuck stall speed, you'll never get there in the first place. hell, technically, once you hit stall-speed, all you do is engage the downward thrusters and hover up there

Just remember that such VTOL maneuvers eat fuel like nothing else (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
(The critical altitude is 75 m, BTW. The reason given is that anything below that counts as ground effect, i.e. technobabble)

like a helicopter would if he actually could get up to that height in the first place.

A helicopter can't reach 75/100 m?

[Sponge]

That's only sales to distributors. Actual retail sales aren't tracked through those numbers.

The fact that I can still find copies of SR5 on shelves is proof that all 15,000 copies weren't picked up by gamers.

SR5 was released to much hype, and it's common knowledge that the first release of a RPG core book sells the best, so distributors would be more willing to take a risk on them. So, you can't measure the actual popularity of a game based on distributor sales.

How about PDF sales, can we measure using those or are distributors stocking those too?

Some quotes:

In less than a month, Shadowrun, Fifth Edition has become the best-selling PDF of all time in the more than ten years of DriveThruRPG operations, while setting the same standard for Catalyst Game Labs online store.

Additionally, well over a month since the book became the best-selling PDF of all time in the more than ten years of DriveThruRPG operations, it is still in the number one slot!

[AJCarrington]

The fact that I can still find copies of SR5 on shelves is proof that all 15,000 copies weren't picked up by gamers.

Thought that the second print run hit the shelves in late November...would expect to see them on the shelves...??? Of course, your point re distributor sales is still valid, as I doubt all copies on shelves were actually sold prior to the second print run becoming available.

[binarywraith]

Thought that the second print run hit the shelves in late November...would expect to see them on the shelves...??? Of course, your point re distributor sales is still valid, as I doubt all copies on shelves were actually sold prior to the second print run becoming available.

It's not like the second print run has any special features to sell it... like, you know, errata or corrections.

Hint hint. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Fatum]

It's not like the second print run has any special features to sell it... like, you know, errata or corrections.

Hint hint. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Well then, if they had to print extra unerrated books, wouldn't that mean that the first batch had been sold?

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Well then, if they had to print extra unerrated books, wouldn't that mean that the first batch had been sold?

No, it just means that they were not organized enough to produce a corrected copy when they had the opportunity to do so.
Just another symptom that is CGL.

[Stahlseele]

Just remember that such VTOL maneuvers eat fuel like nothing else (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
(The critical altitude is 75 m, BTW. The reason given is that anything below that counts as ground effect, i.e. technobabble)


A helicopter can't reach 75/100 m?

i meant the height where a VTOL like the banshee/stonewall has to worry about it's stall speed.

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

No, it just means that they were not organized enough to produce a corrected copy when they had the opportunity to do so.
Just another symptom that is CGL.

It means that the first batch sold out or nearly sold out and when they had the opportunity to send a second batch with errata and clarifications they failed to do so.
One does not exclude the other.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

It means that the first batch sold out or nearly sold out and when they had the opportunity to send a second batch with errata and clarifications they failed to do so.
One does not exclude the other.

Organizational Failure... Pretty common with CGL. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)
You are correct in that they still could have sold out the 1st Printing. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif)

[Remnar]

Oh, right. I always forget that the M14 is select fire, becuase there's no bloody reason for it to be. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/embarrassed.gif)

The civilian M1A is one of the finest rifle's I've shot. SHTF time I'm grabbing my M1A over my M4-gery, assuming I have ammo for it.

Which I usually don't, since its so fun to shoot.

[binarywraith]

The civilian M1A is one of the finest rifle's I've shot. SHTF time I'm grabbing my M1A over my M4-gery, assuming I have ammo for it.

Which I usually don't, since its so fun to shoot.

I really prefer the M1 carbine, myself. Smaller round, yes, but they shoot amazingly well, barely any felt recoil and very natural pointing.

Same problem with ammo, though. .30 carbine has gotten way expensive.

[BishopMcQ]

Modern warfare and weapons are fun, but let's angle the discussion back in the direction of Shadowrun.

[kzt]

Just remember that such VTOL maneuvers eat fuel like nothing else (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
(The critical altitude is 75 m, BTW. The reason given is that anything below that counts as ground effect, i.e. technobabble)

No, there is a ground effect for helicopters and airplanes that improves performance. However it's not 75 meters, it's roughly the rotor diameter or wingspan.

[RHat]

Organizational Failure... Pretty common with CGL. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)
You are correct in that they still could have sold out the 1st Printing. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif)

Under what circumstances does a second, non-corrected printing occur without the first printing being at least mostly sold through?

[Glyph]

Looking at the reviews on Amazon, there seem to be a good number of people complaining about pages falling out of the book. For the people who took the plunge and bought the book, have you had that experience?

[darthmord]

Looking at the reviews on Amazon, there seem to be a good number of people complaining about pages falling out of the book. For the people who took the plunge and bought the book, have you had that experience?

I have a hard cover copy I got (discounted). I do not see or hear any of the typical "poor binding" indications like I have had with other gaming products (older BattleTech and some of the Classic BattleTech stuff). I've read different sections repeatedly, opening the book almost once per day.

The only thing I see as odd is the stiffness of the pages when it comes to turning them which I'm attributing to it being a new book.

[garner_adam]

Looking at the reviews on Amazon, there seem to be a good number of people complaining about pages falling out of the book. For the people who took the plunge and bought the book, have you had that experience?

I have the hard copy leather bound with the gilded pages. The book looks very nice and holds up well. I've been using it since September. It's content aside my only complaint is the Embossing hasn't held up. I can barely read "Shadowrun" on the binding any more because most of the embossing rubbed off from heavy use. Every thing else about this massive book shows that it will take a beating. I have a second group with players new to Shadowrun who are very impressed with it's presentation and appearance.

As far as pages falling out both my second and third edition paper back Shadowrun books had this problem after six months of game play and I imagine it's probably no different for the Shadowrun fifth edition paper back. It is a massive tome with over 450 pages!

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

So far, no binding problems with my regular 5th edition either.

[Shinobi Killfist]

Mine has no problems. If anything it seems to be one of the best bound books I have, though only time will tell on that.

[Wounded Ronin]

Modern warfare and weapons are fun, but let's angle the discussion back in the direction of Shadowrun.

OK....30 carbine FMJ...damage code 9M or 6S?

[nezumi]

This was a big thread for SR3R. I don't think we came to a conclusion.