 Can we beatt he Horrors?, It needed its own thread. |
  |
 Jan 2 2004, 08:11 AM
Post
#176
|
|||||
|
Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 606 Joined: 17-December 03 Member No.: 5,909  |
Wouldnt you put a kill switch on anything you created with the ability to harm you?
i agree it would be much more fun to combat the horros. In reality their will prolly be 3 types of people those who run and huddle into Kares, then their would be the fantasy type using the kares as a base for their assaults, and lastly you would have the people left outside of the kares fending for themselves. |
||||
 |
 
|
||||
|
Jan 2 2004, 09:18 AM
Post
#177
|
|||||||
|
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
Likewise. :) As for Horrors getting better: Of course they can't. There's no Shadowrunning in Horrorspace, and we all know Shadowrunning is the only way to get Karma. Also, they haven't got currency and schools, and those are the only way to buy Karma and to get tutoring. So there. :P
You missed a thousand. It ought to be "I know exactly what 50 million tons of TNT can do". That's 31.6 times the Power. :)
In the 4th world, they could've just flicked the switch on everyone they didn't like, and that'd've been it. The end of humanity. But it didn't happen, ergo A) We don't have kill-switches. OR B) We do, but the Horrors forgot/don't know how to use them. This post has been edited by Austere Emancipator: Jan 2 2004, 09:53 AM |
||||||
|
|
|
||||||
|
Jan 2 2004, 12:05 PM
Post
#178
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 223 Joined: 23-December 03 Member No.: 5,929 |
it is stated that verjigorm made the horrors and watched them war against each other. he sat back and watched it going on as it amused him or entertained him. it seems that all the horrors do is constantly scheme and fight amongst each other while not doing so against us. so that is where i assumed they would continue to grow in strength. however it is the individual GM's world, so...
i also got the impression that verjigorm made more and more of these things as they fell in battle, whether on our plane or theirs, so their could be new and improved horrors with abilities that we've never seen. to point out something in the pro-metahumanity favor. deathstrike and confront horror. two earthdawn adept talents tailored to work against horrors. deathstrike is the blast horror through mark deal people were discussing, though it isn't as powerful as we might wish. a named horror could easily shrug it off as it was an unreduced damage step equal to willpower and toughness. so somewhere around 40 for the really bad ass stalkers. 2D20 + D12 + D10 + D8 average of 40ish. give that to a horror with death rating of over 100 and he doesn't even notice it much. plus it is a one time thing. the adept dies and also has to succeed at making the test in order to inflict damage to begin with. however confront horror seems much more promising. if perhaps it could be modified ro allow for a ritual team, then it would be fairly effective, i think. there would also want to be an immortal as the one confronting the horror as it only lasts for the lifetime of the person who does it. |
|
|
|
|
Jan 2 2004, 12:23 PM
Post
#179
|
|||
|
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
Well, since there might have been some uncertainty earlier about their level of unity in fighting against humans, this pretty much nails it then. It would seem metahumanity on the whole is far more united than that. Scheme and fight is not, after all, all we do. Still, if they don't do actual Shadowruns, they can't get any Karma. :| |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jan 2 2004, 12:30 PM
Post
#180
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 223 Joined: 23-December 03 Member No.: 5,929 |
well then i guess i'd better solidify my "shadows of the netherworlds" sourcebook idea with fanpro so i can beef these baddies up and waste you non-believers. ;)
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 2 2004, 12:44 PM
Post
#181
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 518 Joined: 24-February 03 From: Tucson Member No.: 4,153 |
Man. I go to sleep and the whole conversation runs away without me. ;)
I don't think humans have kill switches. Two reasons. Number one, (meta)humanity was supposedly made by the first great dragon who was spawned from the horrors. We weren't made by Verjigorm himself, and even if we were, kill switches would prevent them from feeding off of our pain and misery. I have no doubt that the horrors are improving. That's one of the reasons for the Mr. Darke position. You have someone in the enemy ranks gathering information and gaining allies to your cause. Needless to say, the horrors will be well prepared for our technology when they truly start thier invasion. Of course, by the time they start thier invasion, thier allies will have already caused widespread death and devastation to sow confusion and disarray. Frankly, our technology will be just as much a bane as a help. The thought of Artificer with nanite loaded traps scares the bejezus out of me. He could have his essence within those nanites, causing you extreme pain as they slowly cut your insides apart. Or how about a dual natured fusion bomb that only attacks (meta)human auras? Goddess knows what biological horrors will be unleashed (intelligent Ebola anyone?). The horrors will have marked and allies making the advanced weapons we would already be using. Those advanced weapons will prevent you from having bases of operation from which to strike from, because if they find you base, they'll crack it open like an egg. The horrors will have no problem using nuclear weapons because it just screws the environment up more and brings more misery (and I'm sure they would LOVE you to use them as well as it would further that goal). When the horrors come, it's going to be wholesale slaughter, and they won't care how many are lost on thier side... they just make more at the drop of a hat. For each person we loose, thier dead bodies get used to make constructs. When the horrors invade, it's gonna make all the previous wars combined look like a bar fight. Hopefully, space will be our one true safe haven. Only problem is, the horrors will have corrupt mages on thier side who may find ways to transport horrors safely into space and keep the mana warp at bay. After all, who knows what magic breakthroughs will have happened by then as well. Finally, from a writing perspective. The horrors are not just the gang on the street corner type of NPC. They are the embodiement of armageddon. Thier purpose in life is to cause widespread mayhem and destruction. They will be the source of oppression for a couple thousand years while the smart humans huddle in safe havens. That is thier purpose. They are not in the story line to be an easily stopped NPC or an enemy that can be dispatched. They are the never ending enemy. |
|
|
|
|
Jan 2 2004, 12:48 PM
Post
#182
|
|||||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 518 Joined: 24-February 03 From: Tucson Member No.: 4,153 |
Since when is humanity united. How much unity do you see in Shadowrun... let alone the real world? People don't put aside thier petty squabbling until the enemy is beating down the gates. When the horrors do show thier true faces, untold mayhem and devastation will have already been visited upon us. Most of that devastation will of course been blamed between one group or another to further division in humanity. You can also bet that the horrors will use unwitting shadowrunners to further thier own goals as well. The horrors are united towards one goal... feed upon humaniti. And they have a definite "survival of the fittest attitude," which means when the horrors do come, you'll be facing the best of the best. Mark my words, unity will only happen after it's too late. That's the way humans work. :( |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
Jan 2 2004, 01:01 PM
Post
#183
|
|||||||||||||
|
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
Guess how I feel. I slept for 16 straight hours.
That makes no sense at all, because the main point of a fusion bomb is the 9-digit heat and explosive power in the "millions of tons of TNT" range. You don't need no god damn aura-attacking there. A neutron bomb is a different thing altogther, though.
How many can he trap, really? Some bugger building traps doesn't seem very bad, when metahumans themselves are quite capable of wiping out tens of millions of people by pressing a button.
By that logic, they would LOVE us killing them all too, as that would cause further pain. Well, if they're that masochistic, that's good for us.
In other words, you believe there are unlimited numbers of them. That's fine. However, most of us do not believe that, so it isn't a very good arguing point. There's no proof of them being unlimited in number. And the "hundreds of thousands in a single area" thing -- that doesn't sound much different than human cities. I live in a "single area" which has 150,000 humans in it, and this is incredibly small in international terms.
How hard is it to kill one of these constructs? Do they have immunity to normal weapons, and how high in general? If an artillery strike or a burst of HMG-fire kills it (20D or more), then no problem. We can make all weapons used to fight the horrors have a switch -- autodestruct when user dies (Biomonitor + low-level transmitter + thermite). I'd like to see them try and beat a modern army unit in melee combat. :) |
||||||||||||
|
|
|
||||||||||||
|
Jan 2 2004, 01:20 PM
Post
#184
|
|||||||||||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 518 Joined: 24-February 03 From: Tucson Member No.: 4,153 |
And they could very easily have neutron weaponry as well. They will have people who have turned to thier side, either through marking or plain greed.
In the horrors sourcebook, there is no stated limit to the number of traps he can create. It say's he makes labyrinths of traps and waits to feed off the pain of those who fall into them.
No, they could just care less if you wipe out thier constructs. They only feed off of the pain and misery of humans... not each other.
Where we only have a sinlge planet (which can only support so much life) to populate, they have a whole metaplane. Verjigorm has spent thousands of years spawning horror after horror. You can bet he will have all the numbers he needs to overwhelm any one force of arms. His allies will have sown major discord into humanity by the time they show up as well. Underestimating your enemy is the first step in your defeat.
Constructs usually aren't difficult to kill. I doubt most would have immunity to normal weapons. Most horrors probably would have immunity. Once again you underestimate your enemy as the horrors will have the same technology. Your artillery will be subject to counter fire batteries. Your people will have to contend with firing at the 3,000 Gnashers coming up the hill to engage in melee or the troop of horror marked firing at thier position with thier own HMG's. They don't care if your weapons are bobby trapped as they will be making thier own. It also depends on how well your people can aim after being inflicted with disease and/or radiation poisoning. ;) |
||||||||||
|
|
|
||||||||||
|
Jan 2 2004, 01:41 PM
Post
#185
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 475 Joined: 17-June 02 From: Concord University, Athens, WV Member No.: 2,880 |
On this neutron bomb thing. Aren't those just a variation on the standard fission weapon?
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 2 2004, 01:54 PM
Post
#186
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 518 Joined: 24-February 03 From: Tucson Member No.: 4,153 |
Yes. Very little blast and creates a huge wave a nuetrons. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jan 2 2004, 02:58 PM
Post
#187
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 223 Joined: 23-December 03 Member No.: 5,929 |
i remember looking forward to my saturday shadowrun sessions to get away from my nuclear physics classes. if i had known i would need to put them both together in the future, i would have stayed in school. :(
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 2 2004, 03:31 PM
Post
#188
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 665 Joined: 20-November 03 Member No.: 5,834 |
I'd like to make a request. Could the pro-horror people please start sticking to canon, and actually using sourcebooks for their arguments? I see a lot of "Maybe a dragon has a device that can decrease TNs by 20" and "Maybe Horrors can corrupt bacteria" but nothing along the lines of "According to the Dragons Sourcebook page 15 Dragons can reduce TNs" (Note: I have Earthdawn Dragons and it says no such thing) or "There's the horror power 'Corrupt Bacterium.'"
Let's see some canon here. If you want to claim there's 10,000 horrors for every human show us the sourcebook that says you should have 10,000 horrors for each PC in this campaign. If you want to claim the Horrors advance in skills between scourges point to the page on the Horrors source book that says they will advance between scourges. Please, quit making this stuff up and stick to the canon here. |
|
|
|
|
Jan 2 2004, 03:50 PM
Post
#189
|
|
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 70 Joined: 5-September 02 From: Everywhere and Nowhere Baby Member No.: 3,225 |
It was me that said ther could be 10,000 horrors per person on the earth I wasnt saying I knew there was that many just that there could be. Of course this number could be very wrong perhaps its 10,000 people per horror. Some things we just dont know.
My belief in the fact that we will have a very tuff fight one which I think we will survive just not win isnt based on a pro horror slant tho. I have a much greater belief in humanities nature to screw over ourselves. I think the ability to corrupt humanity is the horrors bigest assest and once you have the same tech levels on both sides of a war these things cancel out. I cant give you rules for this in source books, but think about it if all the elves of the Tir said to the shadowrun world. Theres some horrors coming and we have to fight them heres what the world has to do. Everyone outside the Tir would ignore them and claim them insane. Its not till the horrors start coming will people do anything and by then it could be too late. |
|
|
|
|
Jan 2 2004, 04:01 PM
Post
#190
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 223 Joined: 23-December 03 Member No.: 5,929 |
as far as canon goes, what do you want from canon? i mean i can cite all kind of references to the ability of horrors to corrupt and or genetically alter name-givers up to and including dragons, but it is all from earthdawn. the shadowrun universe has been IMHO blatantly negligent as far as horrors go. they have tie ins all over the place that suggest the horrors will be here, but nothing that shows the gm's how to deal with it.
so do you want only SR canon, which is all that matters since we are playing and discussing SR? if so then here's your answer: there is none. if you want canon from earthdawn, make sure that you realize everything in it is from a different game system and has to be modified and adapted to be useful in SR. so, if you can be more specific of what you want cited form earthdawn canon, then i can try and accommodate you as there is very little i don't have for that system. |
|
|
|
|
Jan 2 2004, 04:14 PM
Post
#191
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 518 Joined: 24-February 03 From: Tucson Member No.: 4,153 |
Nothern is right. The only real stuff available about horrors in SR is going to be Mr. Darke's entry in Threats. Everything else is going to be in Earthdawn. As for corrupted bacteria, in the Horrors sourcebook, the Dread Iota is an intelligent bacterial colony that inflicts a wasting disease to anyone who consumes it. I believe it's also the Horrors sourcebook that cites Verjigorm has taken captives and purposefully corrupted (i.e. redesigned) for his own purposes... that includes a few dragons. And for the record, I am not pro-Horror... I just know better to think humaniti can win an open war against them. ;) |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jan 2 2004, 04:28 PM
Post
#192
|
|
|
Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,965 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Edinburgh, Scotland Member No.: 2,032 |
Man, you go to sleep for a few hours and AE and Reaver have woken-up before you. ;)
I could believe that horrors could have agents working on earth to make bombs, but the discussion about high technology was about wether or not the horrors would have technology in advance of our own or wether artificer would be able to just turn all of our technology against us (create huge trapped UV hosts on the Matrix ETC). Personally I think artificer would create trapped labyrinth UV hosts, but that's only because it's cool. I doubt they would have technology in advance of our own as the horrors a) probably don't have the skills and b) may not even have access to the right set of physical laws. Who knows what the horror planes are like? AFAIK there are planes where the laws of physics are distorted. They could bring spanking new technology across that just explode or cease functioning in our world. As for the horrors improving: I have no troubble believeing that the best horrors survive. Even before Nightwing was created, however, horrors fought "endless battles". What's to say that battles they have had in the last 10000 years on the metaplanes have had any significant impact compared to the "endless battles" they had before? I personally would take-out the 3000 gnashers using drone-mounted railguns, missiles, HMGs, howitzers, and possibly even orbital railgun strikes in prefference to melee. Even by modern (in SR) railgun standards they can be mounted on any vehicle that can mount a hardpoint and can take the weight, there are many drones and bikes that fit in that category. I think we can also expect it to be significantly harder to mark people due to genetic engineering, shielding metamagics, everyone being an adept, ETC. |
|
|
|
|
Jan 2 2004, 05:10 PM
Post
#193
|
|||||||||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 518 Joined: 24-February 03 From: Tucson Member No.: 4,153 |
LOL. I have to get up at 3:30 in the morning to get to work.
Who's to say for sure, but then that's part of the point. The Horrors are a complete unknown to 99% of the planets population. On the flip side, the horrors know humaniti quite well. With no knowledge to go on, you've already lost half the battle. Also, I can't say for sure that Artificer would be able to do, but considering it's affinity for machines it is a good bet there are many things he could do. I wouldn't put anything past him. With the down time between cycles, who knows what powers he has developed.
That many years has only done nothing but allowed them to hone thier skills. Who knows if they have prey on other worlds as well. The only thing I know of thier metaplane is what I've read from the sourcebook and Harlequin's Back adventure.
And in the battle to come, you could very well find your dones dropped by thier own railguns, artillery and rockets. Horrors are not stupid. They aren't going to just engage in melee. They will have marked and allies as troops as well. Not to mention constructs with weapons built into thier bodies. Genetic engineering probably won't help with marking and shielding was available during the last scourge and it didn't help. Everyone was an adept and that also didn't help. Actually, being magical in some ways makes you easier to mark, especially if you are casting raw magic at the time the horror decides to mark you. Here's the real kicker. When the invasion comes, the world will already be in a very sorry state. The horrors will have already been working behind the scenes to sow discord and strife. The SR world is already in the state for it now. They will set corps and nations against each other, release plagues and increase the toxicity of the planet. Humans will gladly set at each others throats because it's what they are best at, causing corp and national wars. The worlds population will have already been severly impacted by the time everyone see's the horrors themselves. Factories and production sites will have been destroyed or turned impotent due to lack of shipments of material. Weapons, ammo and parts will become scarce due to lack of production... making all your high tech gear impotent. Medical supplies will become scarce, allowing disease and death to climb among the wounded and malnourished. The marked will compromise defenses and turn thier brothers and sisters over to the horrors. Allies to the horrors will help destroy havens and build weapons for the horrors army. The land will be ravaged by hordes of horrors and constructs, leaving behind scarred wastelands. Oppression and evil will cover the earth for a couple thousand of years. It will be as it was destined to be becuase it is an inevitable part of the cycle. |
||||||||
|
|
|
||||||||
|
Jan 2 2004, 05:34 PM
Post
#194
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 184 Joined: 1-January 04 Member No.: 5,948 |
Is it just me, or is this debating starting to sounding a bit too much like those "Let's just to hop over to Asgard, kill Thor, and take his hammer? After all, there are stats for him right here" debates that used to inevitable turn up in just about every junior high/middle school AD&D group back in the 80's? This debate on stoppable vs. unstoppable is pretty much going in circles and I doubt if will ever be satisfactorily resolved. In my opinion the major horrors are forces that are virtually unstoppable by conventional means. Just adding more force, skills, power, or abilities can never hold up to the munchkin/rules lawyer factor that inevitably gets thrown around by players who think they should have the ability and right to kill anything that may have stats. Sure, we can speculate until the cows come home about some bigger, badder weapon or invention or tactic in the far off future, but that does not mean that humanity should be given a by on the threats the scourge is supposed to represent. And at the same time saying "No, sorry, the Horrors and do anything they want and will survive anything thrown at them" is also pretty arbitrary. At this point, without decent SR cannon rules, if I were looking to play a game incorporating horrors and their ilk into SR I would probably dust off my copy of "Primal Order" and define them as demi-gods (hmmm, not that's an idea for a game…). For those unfamiliar with the Wizards of the Coast 1992 release, I submit a copy of this review I found on Amazon.com. Unfortunately it is not longer in print but it may be possible to find a used copy somewhere.
|
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jan 2 2004, 05:35 PM
Post
#195
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 665 Joined: 20-November 03 Member No.: 5,834 |
What I want is for you to do exactly that, quote all sorts of canon to support your statements. If you claim the horrors can do something, back up that claim. Obviously some things in Earthdawn and Shadowrun are different from a game mechanics point of view, such as the length of turns, but those can be converted easily enough. For instance, Shadowrun has no information on how horror marking works. However we can make some pretty obvious deductions, and have, about how it works in the Shadowrun universe, requires LOS and certain conditions that vary according to the horror, affects the astral signature, and gives the horror touch range to the person no matter where they are. Earthdawn Canon adapted to Shadowrun. It's so simple. Yes, there are a few odd comparisons but it makes a lot more sense than seeing 10 pages of horror people saying things like "Maybe some unknown horror has the power to turn cyberware into grapefruit, we just don't know." Also let's hear no more of this "Humans are badly outnumbered" nonsense. If the real canon says it could be anywhere from 10,000:1 Humans on top to the reverse then that claim is absurd. I reccomend we stick to 1:1 as a nice even ratio until some real proof shows up otherwise, but that's just my idea. If you just want to play the maybe game: Maybe there's a genetic code that makes you immune to horror powers, and it will be a common genetech by the time they get here. We just don't know. Maybe all horrors have an extreme allergy to dikote. We just don't know. Maybe even the slightest piece of cyberware in your body not only makes you immune to a horror, but also causes all horrors within LOS of you to suffer a reversal of their power, for instance if they try to corrupt anyone's karma the horror's karma is corrupted. We just don't know. Maybe the Horrors have actually wiped themselves out in their "Endless Battles" on the Horror Metaplane and there will only be two or three of them left by the time the scourge begins. We just don't know. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jan 2 2004, 05:49 PM
Post
#196
|
|||||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 518 Joined: 24-February 03 From: Tucson Member No.: 4,153 |
Actually, we have quoted cannon sources for you. We've told you how horror marking works. I even quoted you the paragraph of the general description of horror marking right out of the horrors book. There is NO SR cannon material on it because they havn't written it. Hence one of the reasons this whole discussion has been theoretical. We know that there are a crap load of horrors waiting as we speak, as they have been witnessed in Harlequin's Back and in the books. How many? All I can say is a butt load. When you stand at the edge of that gray chasm and see nothing but a black horde climbing over itself for as far as the eye can see... both directions, chances are... that's an awful lot. And Verjigorm churns out more of them every day. Once again, this discussion started theoretical and is going to remain so unless the makers of SR change things. Arguing about things being/not being canon doesn't fit into the discussion. I'm giving you the info I have at my fingertips from Earthdawn books and giving you the devil's advocate point of view. I've read the horrors book from front to back and I understand thier psychology. Work behinds the scenes and subvert. That's going to work very well on humanity... it always does. You're right that there are many things about horrors that we don't know, and that's why you should never underestimate your enemy. ;) |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
Jan 2 2004, 06:12 PM
Post
#197
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 223 Joined: 23-December 03 Member No.: 5,929 |
this is exactly where i stand as well. until mike or whomever either decides to publish something or cans it altogether we can only guess and speculate. that's my biggest problem with it all. likewise, i have dealt with 4th world material very exclusively and will provide you canon examples for specific questions when such answers exist, but aside from that, i'll play assistant devil's advocate, only cause someone beat me. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jan 2 2004, 06:18 PM
Post
#198
|
|
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 58 Joined: 1-January 04 Member No.: 5,947 |
While not the greatest movie ever made, I think Starship Troopers draws a good picture of what it's going to be like during the next Scourge. While governments will doubtlessly build modern equivalences of kaers and fallout shelters to hide the "cream" of society, the vast majority of the world is going to have to deal with the horrors, and I doubt if we're just going to sit around and let them slaughter us. If those damn immortals would get off their collective asses and tell people about it before it's too late, we could at least begin making preparations for it. If they only wait until a couple of years before the horrors start pouring through, or never do, well... they had best pray no one ever finds out about them. Which I doubt considering the rumors floating around the Matrix already.
At least Dunkelzahn was trying to use greed and competition to get us ready. |
|
|
|
|
Jan 2 2004, 06:25 PM
Post
#199
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 518 Joined: 24-February 03 From: Tucson Member No.: 4,153 |
I agree that Starship Troopers and maybe even Final Fantasy The Movie at least give an idea of what it will be like. Chances are, take either of those two movies and make it even darker. I doubt the immortals will let the cat out of the bag. You'll end up with mass panic and people clambering to be in a kaer. They don't want that and we all know damn well that's what would happen. Better to save the few you can by keeping quiet. Rumors in the Matrix will be put down as fanciful hoaxes by people doing too many BTL's because people would rather believe such beings don't exist... just as much as they would like to believe they can be easily defeated. ;) |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jan 2 2004, 06:37 PM
Post
#200
|
|
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 58 Joined: 1-January 04 Member No.: 5,947 |
There would be some mass panic and the like. But if they tell of what happened during the Fourth Age now, with thousands of years of time to adjust and prepare for it, it wouldn't be all that bad.
The great dragons are already known to be as close to immortal as most people can comprehend. It's obvious that they lived in a time before and that they weren't just spontaneously created December 24th, 2011. While the immortal elves might be able to get away with not telling, the dragons certainly won't, else they're really going to have to worry about down cycle hunting during the Seventh World unless this next Scourge someone manages to wipe out all traces of the technology we'll have achieved by then, especially in the communications field. |
|
|
|
|
|
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 12th August 2025 - 10:30 PM |
Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.