 Can we beatt he Horrors?, It needed its own thread. |
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 Jan 3 2004, 01:46 AM
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#226
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 198 Joined: 26-December 03 Member No.: 5,935  |
I was thinking about the blood elf solution. It works because the horrors are unable to be the torturer. That solution has horrible consiquences, but what if we went to the other end of the spectrum? What if we gene engineered the pain processing functions of our body out of the human genome. We couldn't feel hurt in any way. We'd have to build nanite hives to deal with damage because our bodies would no longer respond, but we would deny food to many of the more dangerous horrors, like Artificer in particular (those that may be tough, but will never engage you directly). Now it wont do much for the creme of the crop that feed off of more complex emotions like guilt.
Also, I've read extensively about the horrors and I've played Earthdawn a lot, and I have to say that the pro-humans are pretty convincing. I'm starting to think this is going to be the last go around. Either they wipe us out, or we invade the Horrors metaplane and reduce it to a smoking mana warp. To respond to selected other things. Someone said that I had gotten it wrong when I said Horror Stalkers can send a damaging attack down a horror mark. I beg to differ, it's called Death Strike. It goes off AUTOMATICALLY if you succumb to a horrors will. You roll your Death Strike dice + ALL availible karma in an attempt to punch through the horrors defenses (incinerating yourself in the process). If you get through their defense (which is a pretty good likelihood) then you cause Willforce+Toughness damage to the horror that they can not reduce or defend against in any way (this would be the equivalent of causing Body+Willpower+Initiate Grade boxes of damage with no resistance roll) It may not kill the horror, he may in fact recover, but it's puts him in a world of hurt (or at least you hope it does). Now ther reason I say that horror stalkers are masochistic and nuts is because they learn deathstrike before they learn how to suppress the effects of a horror mark. Well that and THEY GO OUT LOOKING FOR HORRORS on a regular basis. Telling the pro-humans to shut up and read the books is still a cop out, irregardless of its validity. Share the knowledge, don't throw it in peoples faces. The dragons probably didn't do summoning like anything described in MitS. My guess is that they actually travelled to the appropriate plane and either dragged the elemental back or (more likely) bartered to gain it's service. No rolls to have a 50% chance on, pure roleplaying. The horrors were created to fight each other endlessly for Verjigorms amusement. Just because we broke off, doesn't mean that they stopped. This would lead me to conclude that the horrors are constantly refining their abilities in combat and magic. Smart FAB that is designed attack only "horror auras" wont work. There isn't a core horror aura, like there is a Human or Elven one. It would be like making Smart FAB that is designed to attack "living auras" oh wait...it already does. :S However, studying and tailoring to a specific horror and using it against them would work but sounds like a long and tricky process. Well, there's probably other stuff I wanted to respond to, but I've forgotten. |
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Jan 3 2004, 01:54 AM
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#227
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,066 Joined: 5-February 03 Member No.: 4,017 |
Firepower to stop the least of them. No sense of pain to stop the middle ones. Watch too much TV so that you don't have a soul for the big ones to care about.
The most complete way to survive a scourge, but the damage you do to humanity in the process is far from minor. Some would rather be tortured than exist in such a state. |
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Jan 3 2004, 02:02 AM
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#228
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 606 Joined: 17-December 03 Member No.: 5,909 |
This is why I used the word most. Let us look into the meaning of the word most to clarify this... I looked up on webster.com and guess what most does not mean all if you would like a source on this try http://www.webster.com/ and search for most lets look at the thesuras to see if all is a synonym of most hmm not suprisingly all and most are not synonyms if you want a source for this try http://www.webster.com/ and search for most Well my friend YOU would not fall under the most category. But the majority of people in here that I have seen have continually asked for cannon refferences and what books to read to get info. This tells me that these people have not read the sourcebooks on the horrors. |
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Jan 3 2004, 02:05 AM
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#229
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 675 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Member No.: 2,034 |
The high tech version of the blood elves. A borg-like hive society reduced to emotionless drones and possibly a few heavily defended masters. THX-1138 :)
It is pretty clear in earthdawn that the blood elves did not find a way to win with thier thorn ritual. At best they found a way to a draw. For one thing they are still cursed with the thorns a couple hundred years after the scourge has died down. Who knows how long it took them to undo it? Also I do not think they were living freely on the surface with their thorns, they just managed to survive a major defect in thier defenses reducing the intensity of horror attacks to a level they could resist. Personally I think it would be sort of cool if the whole thorn thing turned out to be some kind of horror trick anyway: that somewhere there was an uber-horror who was feeding off all of that pain for a couple thousand years and not even the elves knew about it. Or alternatively that some of the immortal elves in SR still have the thorns, but have somehow hidden them and adapted to thier presence. Survival through one scourge bought with an eternity of pain. There was a group of humans in earthdawn who lived for some long time (several decades I think) inside a breached kaer before they escaped, or were rescued some time after the scourge. They were pretty psychologically damaged though. |
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Jan 3 2004, 02:06 AM
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#230
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 606 Joined: 17-December 03 Member No.: 5,909 |
hmm... now this idea I like. But havent drugs and TV already done that in the 5th world :rotfl: |
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Jan 3 2004, 02:11 AM
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#231
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Target Group: Members Posts: 78 Joined: 29-November 03 Member No.: 5,861 |
You're so badass. |
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Jan 3 2004, 02:20 AM
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#232
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 606 Joined: 17-December 03 Member No.: 5,909 |
Thank You. |
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Jan 3 2004, 02:23 AM
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#233
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Target Group: Members Posts: 78 Joined: 29-November 03 Member No.: 5,861 |
:please:
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Jan 3 2004, 02:26 AM
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#234
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 606 Joined: 17-December 03 Member No.: 5,909 |
This is a step in the right direction to beat them permanently. This is the kind of idea's that we should be focusing on. The horrors that we have to worry about will be using psychological assaults this allows us to use their own weapon against them. Edit- Rather than just nuking the shit out of everything and furthering their goals. |
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Jan 3 2004, 03:38 AM
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#235
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,066 Joined: 5-February 03 Member No.: 4,017 |
No, this is not using their own weapons against them. It is suicide to dodge the prison. |
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Jan 3 2004, 03:40 AM
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#236
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
Firepower to stop the least of them != Nuking the shit out of them? I still don't see it "furthering their goals" if metahumanity vaporizes all the least powerful horrors. |
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Jan 3 2004, 03:41 AM
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#237
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Target Group: Members Posts: 26 Joined: 14-March 03 Member No.: 4,250 |
I am. I'm already of the mind, that this entire argument is pointless and doesn't prove anything other than some of us take things a lot more seriously than others. ;) As for final ultimate proof of human victory, I once again mention Munchkin Force™ and their awesome creed: "If it has a text entry, we can kill it. If it has stats, its already dead." :wobble: |
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Jan 3 2004, 03:46 AM
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#238
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,066 Joined: 5-February 03 Member No.: 4,017 |
Which makes it funnier that there are numbers for all listed Horrors, but not for any great dragons...which would indicate that there won't really be much of a battle. |
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Jan 3 2004, 03:49 AM
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#239
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
Send in the Munchkins!!!! The world's last line of defense!
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Jan 3 2004, 04:09 AM
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#240
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Target Group: Members Posts: 58 Joined: 1-January 04 Member No.: 5,947 |
From what I understand of the Blood Wood, it wasn't really a kaer at all, the blood elves just made themselves undesireable to the horrors by using magic to put themselves in a constant state of pain. If so, just imagine what you could do with simsense chips for the masses using technology just from "today." Imagine how far advanced that technology will be after ten thousand years. It could very well make it totally pointless for the horrors to even bother coming in for the invasion.
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Jan 3 2004, 03:01 PM
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#241
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 665 Joined: 20-November 03 Member No.: 5,834 |
I have a vision of an adventure pack where artificer and Deus duke it out. Shadowrunners are enlisted to battle matrix horrors to aid Deus and win the day.
Seriously, there's no use for Deckers in this fight. Nobody has considered their use because the Horrors have no reach into the Matrix. In order to make the game interesting Fanpro will need Cybernetic Horrors. A good way to do this might be corrupted/marked deckers who are somehow able to translate a Horror's astral form into pure data and download it into a whole new playground. Be a rather cool dimension to add to things, and I just like the notion of Deus taking on Artificer, probably wiping each other out in the process. Kind of like the ARDNEH/Orcus battle in Empire of the East, perhaps. |
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Jan 3 2004, 03:13 PM
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#242
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,965 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Edinburgh, Scotland Member No.: 2,032 |
I've heard something about corrupted Otaku trying to enhance dark resonnance (or something) in the Matrix. Anyone think that this could be a horror of a sort?
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Jan 3 2004, 05:25 PM
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#243
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 518 Joined: 24-February 03 From: Tucson Member No.: 4,153 |
What part of, "nuclear devices corrupt the environment," do you not understand? Corrupting and polluting the environment is one of the things the horrors will do. It makes the environment more habitable for them and less for us. If you use nuclear weapons and biological weapons, you further THIER goals... not yours. Nuclear weapons are not your freind by any stretch of the imagination and even as a last ditch effort they still aren't the best choice. |
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Jan 3 2004, 05:34 PM
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#244
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
The part where nuclear fusion doesn't. By the 2060s, we will certainly have ways to easily detonate fusion warheads without a fission detonator, and then we can get in on the megaton-goodness without that many environmental problems. Or at least the problems from radiation will be far outweighed by the 200 meters deep by 1 kilometer wide crater and the burning away of anything flammable within a hundred kilometers. But getting that same destructive effect with conventional weapons will cause the same problems anyway. |
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Jan 3 2004, 05:37 PM
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#245
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 518 Joined: 24-February 03 From: Tucson Member No.: 4,153 |
Then don't call it a nuke. When you say nuke, everyone is going to be thinking of standard fission weapons. :) |
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Jan 3 2004, 05:43 PM
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#246
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
"Fusioning the shit out of everyone" just doesn't sound as nice. :P |
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Jan 3 2004, 05:43 PM
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#247
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 198 Joined: 26-December 03 Member No.: 5,935 |
Corrupted Halbestrom Babies.
They do give generic great dragon stats, and those are on par with the more powerful horrors. |
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Jan 3 2004, 05:52 PM
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#248
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
I suppose that could be considered good news (because the stats of generic Great Dragons are pretty darn weak), if not for the fact that the stats of such critters are not very significant. It has always amused me that it is quite possible, and in fact not even very difficult, to get a troll the Body rating of an average Western Great Dragon. |
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Jan 3 2004, 06:18 PM
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#249
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Target Group: Members Posts: 58 Joined: 1-January 04 Member No.: 5,947 |
Wouldn't most Horror powers be LOS dependant just like spirit powers and spells? If so, by ~10,000 years, we should easily have the equivalence of power armor and vector-thrust main battle tanks (complete with armadas of drones) with so much armor not even the greatest of Great Dragons would be able to stop it physically, and they should easily be able to construct powerful wards and other means of protection inside. Or in other words, mobile kaers with BFGs.
High speed + incredible armor + magical protection + unbelievably powerful weapons that make naval weapons look like child play + support armadas should/would easily put us on par with the Horrors. Especially if, by then, mages should be a dime a dozen and able to join the fight from within, relatively safely hidden behind we-can-see-you-but-you-can't-see-us protection. Unless Horrors can mark individuals just by having them be aware of them, which I think is kind of silly. Few, if any, who've learned to suspected the existance of the Horrors -- including runners used in adventures like Harlequinn's Back -- didn't go crazy or become irreversibly evil. Even those who may have seen them on the other side of the metaplanar chasm while on a metaplane and not behind the lack-of-LOS protection of heavy armory. Again, not everyone is going to be able to make it into the modern-day kaers, so those who won't would be best to at least fight rather than sit around and twiddle their thumbs for when the Horrors come through. |
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Jan 3 2004, 07:48 PM
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#250
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 606 Joined: 17-December 03 Member No.: 5,909 |
Got a page number on us "having ways to easily detonate fusion warheads without a fission detonator, and then we can get in on the megaton-goodness without that many environmental problems" i havent read anything about fission warheads in the 6th world of the 2060's in cannon. Of course again I could just be horribly mistaken.
Yes everyone lets play the futuristic "What if?" game "What if" there is a huge natural disaster before the horrors get here and a lot of our technology is wiped out? Not all we would still have some but not all. "What if” Their is a huger nuclear war and we lose a lot of our technology that way? The point is 3,000 years is a LONG time away from now and no one can say what will happen between now and then hell we could even be living in caves. Hiding behind the future and predicting our advances in technology is a strong arguemnt but is NOT fullproof by any means. |
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