 Can we beatt he Horrors?, It needed its own thread. |
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 Dec 31 2003, 05:22 PM
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#51
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 669 Joined: 25-May 03 Member No.: 4,634  |
1) I'm of the impression that the ability to Horror Mark is one held by Horrors. Artificer is not a Horror, it's a corrupted metal elemental allied with the Horrors. Evidence that Artificer can Horror Mark? 2) Evidence that an AI can be Horror Marked? |
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Dec 31 2003, 05:30 PM
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#52
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 518 Joined: 24-February 03 From: Tucson Member No.: 4,153 |
I can double check in the Horrors book and see if he has that power, but I don't have it with me. Regardless, with Artificers ability to have influence over mechanical devices, the question becomes, could he do so with electronic devices as well? If so, Deus wouldn't stand much of a chance. |
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Dec 31 2003, 05:33 PM
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#53
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Chrome to the Core Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,152 Joined: 14-October 03 From: ::1 Member No.: 5,715 |
Wasn't there somebody that said Artificer is not a true Horror and just a Draconicly-summoned Spirit? If so, then it could be assumed that he does not have the powers of Horrors, just the convictions of one.
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Dec 31 2003, 05:43 PM
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#54
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 518 Joined: 24-February 03 From: Tucson Member No.: 4,153 |
Yet Artificer was powerful enough to be included in the horrors book. While he may have originally been a summoned spirit, he grew up. Who knows what powers he would have after all this time waiting for the next scourge as well. |
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Dec 31 2003, 06:21 PM
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#55
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Avatar of Mediocrity Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 725 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle, WA (err, UCAS) Member No.: 277 |
Arty shows up again in Scourge Unending and, regardless of his origin, is called a Named Horror in the august company of Joie, Chantrel's Horror, and Verjigorm.
It's really important to be clear that the Horrors are not a species, the way (meta)humanity is a species. They range, as has been described, from bacteria to god-killers. What applies to one might not apply to another. |
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Dec 31 2003, 07:14 PM
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#56
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,751 Joined: 8-August 03 From: Neighbor of the Beast Member No.: 5,375 |
Alright! Two threads for this. Sweet. 8) So I'm still waiting for some answers form the other thread so I'll copy them here. If anyone could check on these for me, I'd appriciate it. Thanks!
After rereading most of the other thread, I need just one more reference to the Horrors being able to survive in a manawarp (ie. space ;) ). Its not that I don't believe the proHorrors, I just couldn't find a referece. It was a lot of "they don't seem to be bothered" and "some of them create it in their wake" stuff.
And I'm with GunnerJ and AE on this one: I was on the other thread form the begining and REALLY would remember if Artificer had used a nuke in the 4th age. So, whats up, Joker? :proof: |
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Dec 31 2003, 08:05 PM
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#57
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,965 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Edinburgh, Scotland Member No.: 2,032 |
Firstly: We could build defences at the bridge in the metaplanes... That could probably stop the first wave. The horror Verjigorm is supposedly the one who created the Horrors, and according to dragon myth he, and all of the other horrors, had their asses simultaniously smacked into the metaplanes by a single being known as Nightwing.
Firstly, it would help if our all of our million cloned & born as 100th-grade genetically-engineered initiates could whip-up another nightwing or two using ritual sorcery. Secondly, If a single being (of non-infinite power) can defeat all of the horrors, there theoretically cannot be an infinite number of them. Verjigorm creates the horrors, so if he is defeated the flow of horrors would stop. Even Verjigorm cannot break a kaer easily, if he could then theoretically all of the kaers would have fallen. This means that wards and the like can stop him. This means that wards and the like can trap him. Just some thaughts. |
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Dec 31 2003, 08:19 PM
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#58
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,012 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Actually, a creature of noninfinite power can defeat an infinite number of Horrors as long as their combined power isn't infinite.
~J |
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Dec 31 2003, 08:26 PM
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#59
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 518 Joined: 24-February 03 From: Tucson Member No.: 4,153 |
Building defenses at the bridge will only last for so long. Sooner or later that chasm slowly closes to the point where the horrors come across at any point. Also, what happens when another mana spike gets created somewhere farther down the chasm? Also, dragons ARE horrors. They are the good offspring of the horrors, at least that's the way the story reads in the horrors book. Considering that Dragons of the 6th World shows dragons as having certain horror powers, that's pretty much confirmed. Metahumans were created by the first dragon, not the other way around. Verjigorm can be thwarted, but not all the time. For every kaer that survived, probably at least five didn't. Can't give any hard numbers on that since I don't have a huge ammount of Earthdawn material, but even the main book tells that there are many kaers that did not survive. Something else to think about. If even the dragons hid during the scourge... what chance do you think humanity has? ;) |
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Dec 31 2003, 08:43 PM
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#60
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 198 Joined: 26-December 03 Member No.: 5,935 |
I don't remember reading anything about Artificer using nukes in the 4th world, and I don't me just on this thread, but in my books as well.
I've been thinking, and yeah. Space is a mana warp because of the absence of mana not because it is horribly corrupted (like most background count is). That being the case I would say that only physical horrors, who are tough enough to survive and reach space would be able to come after us if we went there. Like giant crystalline entities (ala Star Trek) or something. However, it should be noted that each person outputs a little bit of mana (If I remember my SR metaphysics it has something to do with the whole universe being shot through with mana and living things creating tangible wakes). So a space station or any space born kaer could very easily harbor a horror marked or actual horror because the large population and renewable food supply would generate enough mana for it to survive. Kevyn668 to answer your question: Yes, it is all those things you purposed. It depends on which horror you are marked by. Some horrors delight in nothing more than to watch the people they have marked try and escape the bonds of that mark. Just a few months ago I finished a campaign where the players spent about half of it not knowing they were marked. In fact they thought the horror was their friend and ally. A wise and powerful wizard who happened to know the lore of a variety of obscure magic items that would help them kill horrors. They bagged 4 not so easy horrors with his help. Then once they realized he had marked them (and that's why things always got worse after they rushed in to "help" under his advice). They spent the rest of the campaign try to figure out a way to get unmarked, including seriously considering mass suicide. They eventually resolved to try and destroy him, and nabbed a piece of his essence (destroying the town they were in in the process). Since they had learned after talking to the horror that he really hated himself and his existence they decided to forge the essence into a weapon to turn that hate back on itself. With weapon in hand they went and hid because they were too scared to actually face the horror in the end. In all a band of noble adventures who were always trying to do the what was right and good racked up the following stats (all these were from their direct action): The release of 1 named horror from his imprisonment (the one the campaign was based on) 3 villages destroyed, a weaponsmith and his apprentice driven mad (who then went on a murder spree), the PCs executed 2 PCs, watched or participated in the excecution of 4 friends and allies, 1 small town marked by a horror, 1 evil nethermancer(necromancer) given a grimiore of nasty spells, the execution of 2 innocent people, the sacrifice of one PC's sister, 2 PCs sacrificing themselves or limitted gain, the betrayal of 1 PCs Warrior Order. [Edit] Lead 2 legendary heros to their deaths (though 1 was already counted among the executed friends).[/Edit] Oh, and of course after all that the Horror able to complete his foul plans and while permanently wounded remained intact. |
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Dec 31 2003, 09:07 PM
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#61
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 606 Joined: 17-December 03 Member No.: 5,909 |
this is all i could find at the moment but the thing is 12 pages long i have PMed the guy who made the post and hope for a response soon
There was very little technology in the fourth world, but Artificer brought advanced technology with it from the metaplanes. Personally I think Artificer and it's ilk have been waiting for the sixth world for a very long time... heres the link to the page http://invision.dumpshock.com/index.php?sh...pic=2247&st=150 ***EDIT*** I could just be horribly mistaken about the nuke thing with me thats always a possibility but if im not mistaken and i very well could be wasnt the cremak used in the fourth world? From what i understand of it. It was basically a small nuke and nukes seem a little to advanced for the fourth world and if artifacter brought in advanced technology from the metraplanes the cremak must have come from him |
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Dec 31 2003, 09:19 PM
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#62
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,751 Joined: 8-August 03 From: Neighbor of the Beast Member No.: 5,375 |
The Cermack blast was in 2057 (55?). In Chicago. Its documented in various places.
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Dec 31 2003, 09:23 PM
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#63
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 198 Joined: 26-December 03 Member No.: 5,935 |
Looks like the Pro-Horrors are losing 2 to 1.
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Dec 31 2003, 09:39 PM
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#64
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Chrome to the Core Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,152 Joined: 14-October 03 From: ::1 Member No.: 5,715 |
'55, actually. I hold in my hands (next to my bed) a copy of Bug City. Fear the bugs. |
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Dec 31 2003, 10:54 PM
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#65
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 669 Joined: 25-May 03 Member No.: 4,634 |
Well, they're outnumbered, but any competant tactician will tell you that that's not the same as losing. |
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Dec 31 2003, 10:58 PM
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#66
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,012 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers.
~J |
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Dec 31 2003, 11:05 PM
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#67
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 669 Joined: 25-May 03 Member No.: 4,634 |
Aha! Another weapon metahumanity can use against the Horrors: mob idiocy! |
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Dec 31 2003, 11:12 PM
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#68
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Target Group: Members Posts: 26 Joined: 14-March 03 Member No.: 4,250 |
There we go... a real intelligent response to others having different opinions. What are you guys trying to prove now? That just because we think humans have a chance, where all stupid now? Not help your case any... :S ***EDIT*** Sorry... I just noticed your being sarcastic... forgive me... my bad... Its been a long day. :) |
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Dec 31 2003, 11:15 PM
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#69
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,012 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
I voted with the large number of stupid people.
~J |
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Jan 1 2004, 12:17 AM
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#70
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 518 Joined: 24-February 03 From: Tucson Member No.: 4,153 |
Ok. As per the Horrors Sourcebook, the only horror power Artificer has is the Forge Trap power. With this power he creates all kinds of feindish mechanical traps. When someone is snared in one, he feeds off of thier pain and misery.
Now, in the time of the scourge and since then, who knows what Artificer might have developed for powers. After all, he is basically a horror/free spirit and I'm sure he fed on a lot of victims. The tale of a surviving victim recounts that of all the wounds he received in life, the one delivered by Artificer haunts him. So, it is possible that Artificer has slowly been developing the horror mark power. Just something to think about. It would be scary to think what Artificer might be able to do in the 6th world. Imagine if he could have a vested essence in a gun and feed off of the pain of those shot by it. A fully automatic weapon would be a buffet for Artificer. My, what a scary thought. :eek: |
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Jan 1 2004, 12:23 AM
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#71
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,066 Joined: 5-February 03 Member No.: 4,017 |
In the end, that is the only advantage humanity has. Yet there are floods of non-sentient Horrors who are attempts to balance the overwelming idiocy that humanity can generate. [ Spoiler ]
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Jan 1 2004, 12:26 AM
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#72
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Space is not an absense of magic. It is a level 10 Mana Warp in most places, but some locations are lower.
Deus is not an electronic device. If anything, he is software.
The Cermak Blast was so named because that was the location in Chicago of the Tac Nuke's detonation. |
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Jan 1 2004, 12:33 AM
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#73
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 518 Joined: 24-February 03 From: Tucson Member No.: 4,153 |
I agree with you on the mana warp. With filtering, a high level initiate could cast spells in space without ill effects. That means mana must exist in space, it's just highly warped. Deus may be software, but software does not run without a machine to run on. That machine is what could be potentially corrupted, especially by something that has an innate affinity for machines. :) |
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Jan 1 2004, 12:54 AM
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#74
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,028 Joined: 9-November 02 From: The Republic of Vermont Member No.: 3,581 |
I've got to go with Moonstone Spider on this one. I see a distinction between corrupted mana, like mana warps within the Earth's manasphere, and a near-total lack of mana, as found in space. The difference would be academic, in most cases, because the effects on normal astral beings would be similar. However, while Horrors can survive, even thrive, off the former, there's evidence that they're incapable of dealing with the latter. Dunkelzahn apparently believed so, at any rate... at least that seems to be the accepted explanation for his bequest to encourage research into growing food in space. And if they can deal with no-mana, why didn't they hang around through the Fifth World? |
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Jan 1 2004, 12:57 AM
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#75
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 973 Joined: 3-October 03 Member No.: 5,677 |
"Hiiistory is made by stupid peeeeeopleeee, *forgets a line*, if you want a place in the heeestory books, then do something dumb before you diiiie!" :D :rotfl: :grinbig: Sorry. That post completely reminded me of that Weird Al song. :rotfl: |
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