 Can we beatt he Horrors?, It needed its own thread. |
  |
 Jan 3 2005, 05:40 PM
Post
#726
|
|||||
|
Great Dragon  Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222  |
And, again, I don't think the comment had anything to do with HvsH. Humanity has been capable of rendering most of earth uninhabitable and killing off the majority of humans and large animals in short order for at least 60 years, more like since the first breakthroughs in chemical and biological warfare. Yet we don't. We've been much closer to doing it than we are now. If it had anything to do with the topic, I'd ask what exactly humankind has done recently to "ensure its own destruction". Unfortunately it doesn't, and, really, if it's on the same level on the Crap-O-Meter as some vague potential hints in the Dragonic Creation Myths ™, I'm not too interested either.
Do point out all the civilizations that have crumbled in the last 1,500 years, and concentrate especially on those that have occurred since the spread of democratic ideals in the Western world. |
||||
 |
 
|
||||
|
Jan 3 2005, 06:14 PM
Post
#727
|
|
|
Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
The last shreds of the Roman Empire. The Holy Roman Empire. The big one, the Ottoman Empire. Democracy in its modern form is too recent a phenomenon to have examples of its collapse (for instance, the US is a mere two hundred and twenty-two years old, far younger than any of the above examples even at the start of their decline), but if you’ve got a rationale for why it is more resistant to such I’d like to hear it.
~J |
|
|
|
|
Jan 3 2005, 07:05 PM
Post
#728
|
|
|
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
Ah, it appears we have a completely different understanding of what it means for a civilization to crumble. By "civilization" I mean "a relatively high level of cultural and technological development" [held by a certain population, of course], and by "crumble" "to break down completely".
Indeed what was left of the Roman Empire by the 6th century was but shreds, and that progress had started at least one hundred years prior. The other two are simply great empires which were broken up into several successor countries -- the civilization held on. The nationstates which sprang up or were formed in the areas and for the peoples formerly ruled by the respective empires were as highly developed culturally and technologically as the empires had been. I do not wish to discuss the mechanics of different political systems at length, at least not here, but the reason I mentioned democracy is simple: so that there would be examples from societies which are similar to our own current ones. This post has been edited by Austere Emancipator: Jan 3 2005, 07:10 PM |
|
|
|
|
Jan 3 2005, 07:11 PM
Post
#729
|
|
|
Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
If you compare the Ottoman Empire at its height to the current-day Middle East and don't call that crumbling, well, I'm not sure what to say.
~J |
|
|
|
|
Jan 3 2005, 08:19 PM
Post
#730
|
|||||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 830 Joined: 3-April 04 From: Columbus, Ohio Member No.: 6,215 |
Whatever. The Ottoman's didn't have television or microwaves. Give me your so-called "cultural sophistication," but if I don't have indoor plumbing, the ability to cook dinner in under a minute, and ways to entertain myself at 4am that don't make baby Jesus cry, what's civilization worth? On the other hand, I'm being completely facetious, and you have an excellent point. |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
Jan 3 2005, 08:46 PM
Post
#731
|
|
|
Freelance Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,324 Joined: 30-September 04 From: Texas Member No.: 6,714 |
The point is, we're still here, despite generation after generation of hip, trendy, cynics all shouting about how the sky's falling and how humanity's about to wipe itself out.
Yes, we have biological and chemical weapons that could wipe out every human. But guess what? Thog, the first guy to hit someone with a stick, had an amazing military advantage over all his contemporaries, too, and the race managed to stumble on despite it. Ditto with Grum, who was the first guy to hit someone with a sharp stick, and Oog, who was the first guy to throw a stick. Any one of those legendary giants had the capability to hypothecially kill every other human being -- but much like the state of nuclear/biological/chemical weapons today -- it didn't happen. Why keep insisting humanity's so amazingly skilled at wiping itself out, when we haven't managed to do so after thousands of years of trying? |
|
|
|
|
Jan 3 2005, 09:02 PM
Post
#732
|
|
|
Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
In all the cases you mention, the practical ability to kill everyone was not present. It is now, and is becoming more and more common.
~J |
|
|
|
|
Jan 3 2005, 09:46 PM
Post
#733
|
|||||
|
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
Would you say biological, chemical and nuclear weapons are currently in hands more likely to use them than ever before? I hope not, because the evidence is staggeringly against such a view.
Crumbling of what? Of relative military power and clout in foreign policy? Certainly. Of tolerance? In many cases, yeah. Of culture? Very doubtful. Of technology or of knowledge? The complete opposite. Thus civilization as I defined it above (with help from M-W.Com) did not crumble in the least, and indeed by that definition, with the possible exception of long isolated tribes, civilization has proceeded in leaps and bounds since then. Standards of living have most likely improved in every area formerly held by the Ottoman Empire since the late 17th century. Violence is more common in a few areas and civil rights less common in a few others, but then in many both situations have improved (large parts of Turkey, all of Greece, and nearly all other areas in modern Europe, etc.). |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
Jan 3 2005, 10:03 PM
Post
#734
|
|||
|
Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
The barrier of entry to manufacturing or otherwise obtaining said devices is dropping steadily, and without a reversal of scientific progress I don't see that trend stopping or reversing. Thus, irrespective of whether the hands they are currently in are more likely to use them, they are there and will continue to be should later hands be more willing. ~J |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jan 3 2005, 10:08 PM
Post
#735
|
|||
|
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
True, they do become ever more available. Yet they aren't being used. Which forces me to again fall back to my original statement: We totally suck ass at ensuring our own destruction. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jan 3 2005, 11:05 PM
Post
#736
|
|
|
Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
I disagree, but I guess on this point time will tell.
~J |
|
|
|
|
Jan 3 2005, 11:19 PM
Post
#737
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 116 Joined: 3-January 05 Member No.: 6,925 |
And when your irradiated, disease-wracked corpse is shoveled into a pile next to his by the Master Bugs, you can leer at him through your decaying lips and zombiliy shout, "I TOLD YOU SO!"
There's some bets, chummer, you just don't make. |
|
|
|
|
Jan 3 2005, 11:42 PM
Post
#738
|
|
|
Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
There are some bets that you simply CAN'T. :D
|
|
|
|
|
Dec 30 2006, 06:00 PM
Post
#739
|
|
|
Incertum est quo loco te mors expectet; Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,548 Joined: 24-October 03 From: DeeCee, U.S. Member No.: 5,760 |
I just wanted to say, I think the drop bears are going to beatt everyone.
|
|
|
|
|
Dec 30 2006, 06:53 PM
Post
#740
|
|
|
Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
You just couldn't resist, could you? :D
|
|
|
|
|
Dec 30 2006, 07:13 PM
Post
#741
|
|
|
Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
Drop- Drop - Drop-
DropBears HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!! |
|
|
|
|
Dec 30 2006, 08:57 PM
Post
#742
|
|
|
Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
I wasn't refering to the Drop Dumplings as much as the ressurection of this particular thread on this particular day. ;)
|
|
|
|
|
Dec 31 2006, 05:12 AM
Post
#743
|
|
|
Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Can we please try to be serious, at least vaguely?
~J |
|
|
|
|
Dec 31 2006, 05:43 AM
Post
#744
|
|
|
Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
I have come to the conclusion that we can defeat the Horrors if we have two things, preparation and unity. First, we'll need the Rites of Passage and Protection or a similar barrier to protect us from the masses of unnamed pack hunters. Those are the most dangerous due to their superior numbers. The Named horrors are powerful and dangerous but they are also solitary and divisive. Heavily armed adepts with eight or nine threads woven to their Named main battle tanks can take out the most powerful of Named Horrors rather easily. However, quarantine precautions will have to be enforced strictly to prevent a Horror from gaining entry into a warded area via a marked soldier and the rediscovery of the spell that allows one to erase a Horror Mark is essential to humanity's long-term survival.
I do not expect the Horrors to be stagnant. I expect our interpid warriors to face sentient corrupted main battle tanks with arms and legs and giant rail guns which look and act sort of like G2 Megatron and all sort of other cybermagical monstrosities. I expect Horror Otaku and Horror Technomancers to ride the information superhighway into seemingly safe technokaers. I expect either Bonecrown or Nemesis to already be here gathering political influance and control, but they are politicians rather than destroyers and their leadership might actually allow humanity to outfox their more malignant brethren. |
|
|
|
|
Dec 31 2006, 05:49 AM
Post
#745
|
|
|
Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
i'd expect to see digital kaers--whole populations converted into machine ghosts, living in heavily- (magically-? otaku-?) encrypted offline solar/magic-powered hosts.
|
|
|
|
|
Dec 31 2006, 07:41 AM
Post
#746
|
|
|
Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
In space !!
|
|
|
|
|
Dec 31 2006, 12:59 PM
Post
#747
|
|
|
Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,009 Joined: 25-September 06 From: Paris, France Member No.: 9,466 |
We don't need any horrors, we take care of destroying our world and make people suffer on our own.
|
|
|
|
|
Dec 31 2006, 01:13 PM
Post
#748
|
|
|
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,468 Joined: 5-December 06 From: Somewhere in the Flooding, CalFree Member No.: 10,215 |
But we aren't doing it fast enough....we have had thousands of years to destroy ourselves and we are still here, hence the horrors. We failed our job of self-extinction, so the powers that be had to hire a team of horror runners to come and geek us. We are simply the targets of multi-dimensional wetwork.
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 1 2007, 02:50 AM
Post
#749
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 548 Joined: 21-December 06 Member No.: 10,416 |
Silly question, but I have been playing old material and my own campaigns for some time. I have a general idea what the Horrors are but could someone provide a link or something to more information about them, the Kares and so on?
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 1 2007, 03:09 AM
Post
#750
|
|
|
Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 24th August 2025 - 04:00 AM |
Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.