 Can we beatt he Horrors?, It needed its own thread. |
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 Jan 8 2007, 08:54 PM
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#776
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Dragon  Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019  |
I think Earth's space is a metaplanar hub. But I don't think they're here because of that; that wouldn't have been enough for them to want to linger here.
And I don't think Verjigorm's the worst Horror in existence; maybe the worst one to walk the Earth, but not the worst one when compared to ones on other planets. This thought is supported solely by the assumption that there are horrors on other planets. |
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Jan 8 2007, 09:34 PM
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#777
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 695 Joined: 2-January 07 From: He has here a minute ago... Member No.: 10,514 |
We still don't have canon life on other planets though, no way of knowing exactly how extraplanetary manaspheres work, right?
Though I recall something (maybe in reading Ancient's files?) about Harliquin and some runners/characters traveling to another modern world via the metaplanes? Implication being that it had already been taken over by the Horrors and turned into a post apocalyptic wasteland type setting. Basically the perfect terrain for Horrors. Anyone remember that or am I talking out of my ass? Does that have any bearing on the advanced modern society of Earth 2070 and it's chances of surviving the Horrors? |
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Jan 9 2007, 01:45 AM
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#778
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Cybernetic Blood Mage Group: Members Posts: 3,472 Joined: 11-March 06 From: Northeastern Wyoming Member No.: 8,361 |
I seem to recall reading something on AH's page about some strange bones being recovered from Mars that resembled Dragon bones but tested as something else... I think it was in Big D's will....
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Jan 9 2007, 01:51 AM
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#779
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Uncle Fisty Group: Admin Posts: 13,891 Joined: 3-January 05 From: Next To Her Member No.: 6,928 |
OS: the harlequin's Back adventunre has a metaplanar "place" like that, although it's never really addressed as to why it's like that. but any magic use there inflicts wounds on the user.
Ravor: There are bones yeah, althouhg what they are hasn't been said either way. AH keeps saying "there's no proof they're dragon bones" or soemthin' to that effect. There's an adventure in the Missions adventure book that deals with this. [ Spoiler ]
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Jan 9 2007, 03:46 PM
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#780
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 695 Joined: 2-January 07 From: He has here a minute ago... Member No.: 10,514 |
When I got home I busted out HB and read that section (Don't worry, I have my GM credentials somewhere around here...). I guess it can't really be held with any credibility because it was a quest. There were some low-low-low (implied by text, no hierarchy to back up positions) level Horror minions in the back and they were pretty nasty critters.
I was also planning on tossing a few wraiths at my players since they just arrived in Cancun on Oct. 29th 2070 with the intension to knock off a minor government secretary. Seeing as the day of the dead was coming to this contested territory I figured a riot may be in order. Have you ever checked out the stats on those things? If they are a low level horror minion as well, a precursor to what is to come, we have some problems. The average Awakened runner might be able to take one down if he gets the drop on one and it hasn't gotten it's spirit energy up to full yet. IF these guys are the rank and file of a Horror invasion we are in for some serious trouble. I don't want to get bogged down in the numbers game, but in terms of sheer ability, the average man is a weapon for these guys. Unless some effective anti-Horror measures can be taken metahumanity is going to be play doe for them when they come back. Considering the current state of awareness in the Sixth World I'm going to have to call metahumanity boned. |
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Jan 9 2007, 04:11 PM
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#781
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Man In The Machine Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,264 Joined: 26-February 02 From: I-495 S Member No.: 1,105 |
Meh, metahumanity is boned already, the question is who does it, and do they do us the dignity of lubing up first.
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Jan 9 2007, 05:13 PM
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#782
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Incertum est quo loco te mors expectet; Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,548 Joined: 24-October 03 From: DeeCee, U.S. Member No.: 5,760 |
Just so you're clear (since your post seems to indicate a lot of reverence for the horrors, but doesn't indicate you think every individual is unbeatable) many horrors are really not very tough at all. Some can be taken down with a trusty chainsaw or a few sniper rounds to the head. Some are defeated by simple water purification! The only thing that makes them horrors is they're from another metaplane and they generally consume unusual stuff to survive.
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Jan 9 2007, 05:37 PM
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#783
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
So is cholera, which is still a nasty problem in much of the world. Plus, cholera can't induce people to slip itself into food and water supplies beyond the filtration stages. It's true that any given Dread Iota can be killed trivially, but that's a very disingenuous way of putting the issue. Edit: cancel that. I just reread their entry in Horrors, and I retract my "can be killed trivially" statement. They're explicitly said to be difficult to kill, and the only methods mentioned by which it can be accomplished are a specific type of healing and a magical water purification. While modern filters may be able to kill them, or at least bar their entry into potable water (until one of them Powerbolts the filter!), we can safely assume that methods available in Earthdawn (boiling, for example) will not be successful. Gnashers certainly are killable with a chainsaw or rifle, but they travel in packs of several dozens. Baggi, if I remember my stat conversions correctly, ought to be roughly impervious to small arms fire. Wingflayers are largely resistant to standard modern projectiles (arrows, bullets, anything of that sort). So on and soforth. For things that are "not so tough" (but still often decently tough!), you pretty much have to go with the lesser Horror Constructs. ~J |
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Jan 9 2007, 09:06 PM
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#784
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Incertum est quo loco te mors expectet; Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,548 Joined: 24-October 03 From: DeeCee, U.S. Member No.: 5,760 |
Clearly there's some debate as to how not tough some horrors go, since just two days ago I got poked with:
So Kage and Herald, you two go fight it out as to whether there are very easy horrors to kill or not. Since I've only read the Horrors book (which, of course, doesn't list ALL horrors, and presumably skips those horrors which are so trivial to kill they're already eaten by the bigger horrors), I can only share my particular view of how they should work. Some horrors are big and nasty. Some are neither big nor especially nasty. A few are listed in books, the majority are not. The only thing we can say for certain is they're all linked to the magic level. |
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Jan 9 2007, 09:47 PM
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#785
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Gnashers can be killed by sufficiently sharp sticks, it's true. I may have misspoken above. What makes them difficult to kill is that they travel in packs of, again, several dozens. They're dumb, but they're hungry. Still, enough automatic fire should put them out of commission.
Dread Iota, on the other hand, are relatively powerful and very difficult to kill, and "infest streams, ponds, springs, lakes, and even rain clouds" in "masses". ~J |
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Jan 9 2007, 10:01 PM
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#786
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The Dragon Never Sleeps Group: Admin Posts: 6,924 Joined: 1-September 05 Member No.: 7,667 |
We are the Horrors.. how can we escape ourselves?
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Jan 9 2007, 10:05 PM
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#787
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Ysrthgrathe knows.
~J |
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 Jan 10 2007, 01:19 PM
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#788
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,629 Joined: 14-December 06 Member No.: 10,361 |
You can't stop the horrors, Nobody can stop the horrors!
*dances* |
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Jan 10 2007, 01:25 PM
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#789
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
We are not Horrors, we are (meta)humans. We do not need to escape the Horrors any more than we need escape those that we hold in our thrall. |
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Jan 10 2007, 03:42 PM
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#790
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Incertum est quo loco te mors expectet; Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,548 Joined: 24-October 03 From: DeeCee, U.S. Member No.: 5,760 |
I'm going off memory here, but I do believe while chemical filtration would not work, physical filtration would (if the filters are small enough). Considering there are physical filters on the market now that will filter out things to the size of viruses, I suspect they would work on Dread Iotas, at least until the little guys drilled through the plastic. That isn't to say they aren't dangerous and difficult to kill, but simply that they can be defeated through the appropriate use of water filters and sanitation techniques (in other words, if there's a pond of water full of dread iotas, and you use your hand-held physical water filter to get fresh water without iotas, you've successfully 'defeated' them). |
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Jan 10 2007, 03:47 PM
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#791
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Right. But again, they're decently proficient spellcasters (IIRC roughly equal to grade 2 or 3 initiates). One Powerbolt and the Dread Iota are coming through.
~J |
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Jan 10 2007, 03:58 PM
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#792
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
That's why all water filtration centers (and any other societally important sites) have shitloads of Nimue's Salamanders in them.
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Jan 10 2007, 04:07 PM
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#793
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,066 Joined: 5-February 03 Member No.: 4,017 |
After playing a variety of FPSs, I consider anything that takes multiple sniper shots to the head to not be an example of an easy target. |
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Jan 10 2007, 04:12 PM
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#794
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
Substitute "a few explosive rounds in the general vicinity" for "a few sniper rounds to the head" then. That's how a modern military kills just about everything anyway.
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Jan 10 2007, 04:29 PM
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#795
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 695 Joined: 2-January 07 From: He has here a minute ago... Member No.: 10,514 |
I think the problem is scale, every Horror is looking for a piece of the action as it were. Where as not every meta is going to take to the street with bravery and determination to thwart this threat. In fact, knowing the world today, I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of the first world didn't try to welcome their new Horrible masters and cut some kind of deal so they could get back to their AR world.
That is assuming the invasion hasn't started already and the poo state of most of the worlds population isn't already feeding the bastards. |
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Jan 10 2007, 05:08 PM
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#796
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Not quite true—Slipshades, for example, act much like an unusually intelligent territorial animal. They stake out a territory, and defend it against those who encroach, but generally show no interest in hunting Name-Givers unless they invade that territory. They may be up to something nefarious and unseen, but, well, it's still totally unseen. That said, yes, most Horrors and constructs are out there actively doing things that are detrimental to the survival of metahumanity, and it is very likely that many metahumans will, rightly or wrongly, conclude that they don't need to outrun the bear. ~J |
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Jan 10 2007, 11:55 PM
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#797
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,640 Joined: 6-June 04 Member No.: 6,383 |
I've not read any ED material so I don't know exactly what Dread Iota are, but it sounds like they're extremely tiny (microscopic) magic users who jack you up from the inside. Yeah, that would suck balls in medieval times. But today you can just do what you'd do to purify water anyway for municipal use and add a few steps. In the first place you have sand and goo filtration. Next, you add flouride to the water. After that, you boil it, then you bombard it with UV radiation, and then you use a viral filter. Now, even if we took a 4th level initiate magic user from SR3, but we forced his body through a sand filter, poisoned him, boiled him, and then bombared him with radiation before next attempting to jam his body through a viral filter, I think he'd be pretty jacked up. He'd need to be totally on the button with lots of spells to survive each level of the filtration process and I'm not sure there'd be an easy way for him to survive the radiation bombardment. Just from what I'm gathering in this thread, it shouldn't be too hard for anyone with a premium bottled water facility to Evi0wn microscopic malicious magic users. Plus, why always be on the defensive? You could torture the dread iota by messing with them. Leave out an open bottle of drinking water which you've just been drinking from and come back a while later. Act like you're about to take another big sip...and then instead quickly throw the bottle in the microwave and microwave it until the water all but evaporates. Cackle wildly at the sadistic fate which you have just subjected the tiny magic users to. EDIT: Also, I don't see why you couldn't engineer a species of astral magic-eating algae to live in the drinking water. Mwah hwah hwah, subject the DIs to a Lovecraftian fate! |
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Jan 10 2007, 11:58 PM
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#798
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Mystery Archaeologist Group: Members Posts: 2,906 Joined: 19-September 05 From: The apple tree Member No.: 7,760 |
And indeed it did. In ED you could kill them relatively easily by using the purify water spell. Basically they were a horrendous punishment for people who acted stupidly. |
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Jan 11 2007, 12:27 AM
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#799
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Ineffective due to small size.
Ineffective due to Dread Iota not being tooth decay. You may, however, pollute their precious bodily fluids.
Presumably ineffective due to Dread Iota being described as "difficult to kill" in an age when boiling water was, while not trivial, certainly not high technology.
Ineffective due to Powerbolt.
This one may or may not work. Consider the number of places in the world where people will be consuming water without having access to a concentrated source of UV radiation. ~J |
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Jan 11 2007, 01:07 AM
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#800
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,640 Joined: 6-June 04 Member No.: 6,383 |
Well, the guys are tiny, right? So you give them enough chemicals and they are a lot more likely to get poisoned than a person. So, if you want, do flouride and bleach. They probably would have to cast detox on themselves in order to not get poisoned. You could also hit them with iodine but that's less practical because sometimes iodine treated water can result in a goiter. UV water treatment is available in the Federated States of Micronesia. It would probably be available in a lot of places if it became extremely important. |
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