Immortal Elf...banshee?, question Options

[Elfenlied]

Laodicea, do you mind if I blatantly rip off your for my own campaign? The Catholic church fighting an Immortal Elf Banshee in an eternal conspiracy is just way too awesome!

[IKerensky]

Hum, I am not sure Harlequin can be crowned as the more powerfull of the IE. He is one of the more visibly active in the 6th world sure, the more powerfull ? I doubt it. He is not one of the older, some IE are there from before Earthdawn time afterall.

I think he is on par as Ehron as the power goes, but weaker than Allachia in magic (she is older than him and perfecting her own school of magic while he was still learning ED disciplines). I think that some of the Dragon Killer team aren't small players themselves.

During the 4 ages some of the infected metatypes existed, in name at least, but they weren't close to what they are in Shadowrun.

You dont need for the Banshee to be an Immortal Elf to make her a valuable opponent.

[Dumori]

Hum, I am not sure Harlequin can be crowned as the more powerfull of the IE. He is one of the more visibly active in the 6th world sure, the more powerfull ? I doubt it. He is not one of the older, some IE are there from before Earthdawn time afterall.

He has been cannonly described as the most powerful none dracoform magic user that makes him the most powerful IE by default. IDK how it pulled it off maybe he's a very quick learner or manged to move to the metaplanes when the 5th age hit and use that time in magical space to pump his power up.

Still IEs are best left out of most plots they tend to have close links to each other either as friends or foes you get on the wrong side of an IE other are atleast gonging to poke their heads in same with Dragons and GDs. Even if this guy is hated by them all then you have to explain why they haven't tried to killing for 5000+ years.

[CanRay]

Hum, I am not sure Harlequin can be crowned as the more powerfull of the IE.

He's the one that has the most fun.

"I like Ike!"

[Critias]

^^ yet people are saying I'd be a mean GM to make him the Big Bad of the campaign....

I never said you were being a "mean GM." I just said it would be monstrous, horrific, overkill in my game. I don't know your players, I don't know their characters, I don't know how brutally and efficiently you'd run an Immortal Elf Banshee, I don't know the power level of your campaign, I don't know the tone or mood of it, I don't know any of that. All I know is my flavor of Shadowrun, where it would be way too much bad guy.

If it works at your game, knock yourself out.

[Laodicea]

Laodicea, do you mind if I blatantly rip off your for my own campaign? The Catholic church fighting an Immortal Elf Banshee in an eternal conspiracy is just way too awesome!

Feel free. I'm glad someone likes it. I hope my players will.

[last_of_the_grea...]

Nothing in Shadowrun is unkillable. The question is do the players and their characters have the time, resources and enginuity to get the job done. In most cases the answer is no. However, there's always that one that catches you by surprise with sheer, simple genius and the only way to keep that great dragon alive is with GM fiat. Personally I do not believe in GM fiat. Let the dice fall where they may! If the players get lucky and take out Ghostwalker then they should frikkin' take out Ghostwalker!

So, go ahead and make your banshee and by all means give him stats. I only wish the game's writers had the nads to officially publish these so-called "plot points'" stats!

[Yerameyahu]

Disagree. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) You might as well let your 'shadowrunners' destroy a continent, 'if they have the resources'. They won't. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Whipstitch]

There isn't anything currently in my games capable of taking out a Great Dragon that isn't at least partially owned by other Great Dragons. An old nuke could get the job done, I suppose, but that's about the "easiest" option I think my players would have a chance at. There's also a variety of kamikaze style attacks, such as ramming them with a t-bird or something, but honestly I just don't see it happening.

[Neurosis]

Wouldn't their IMMUNITY TO DISEASE kind of throw a kink in this?

Not that this isn't a cool idea.

[Mooncrow]

Where are you guys trotting out the Immunity from Disease thing? I honestly don't think I've seen any official powers for the IE; if it's listed somewhere, I would love to know.

[Mongoose]

The immunity to disease is irrelevant, if you are talking Immortal Elf. Sure, they might not normally catch diseases, but with the magical enemies floating around back in the 4th age its entirely possible that it could be magically induced, or his resistance was eliminated at least temporarily. Or it could be the result of some ill-advised attempt at using magic to increase his own power. Or he's the first banshee ever, or her lover, or...
Whats almost certain is its not just because he got jumped by some punk banshee one dark night while taking a piss behind the pub.

[last_of_the_grea...]

There isn't anything currently in my games capable of taking out a Great Dragon that isn't at least partially owned by other Great Dragons. An old nuke could get the job done, I suppose, but that's about the "easiest" option I think my players would have a chance at. There's also a variety of kamikaze style attacks, such as ramming them with a t-bird or something, but honestly I just don't see it happening.

Or hit him with a cannister or 10 of FAB 3! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Neurosis]

Where are you guys trotting out the Immunity from Disease thing? I honestly don't think I've seen any official powers for the IE; if it's listed somewhere, I would love to know.

Canonically referenced several times in Harlequin's Back.

In Harlequin's description, obviously (like the first sentence) and also in Jane's stat block (Harlequin's Back p. 148).

Powers: Immunity to Age, Disease, Pathogens, Poisons

If Immortal Elves were anything else...like anything meant to ever be a playable character...then I might agree with the viewpoint that their Immunity to Disease does not apply to Awakened diseases like HMVV. But...come on.

[Critias]

The immunity to disease is irrelevant, if you are talking Immortal Elf. Sure, they might not normally catch diseases, but with the magical enemies floating around back in the 4th age its entirely possible that it could be magically induced, or his resistance was eliminated at least temporarily. Or it could be the result of some ill-advised attempt at using magic to increase his own power. Or he's the first banshee ever, or her lover, or...
Whats almost certain is its not just because he got jumped by some punk banshee one dark night while taking a piss behind the pub.

If the GM just wanted to hand wave it, why ask the question in the first place?

[Mooncrow]

Canonically referenced several times in Harlequin's Back.

In Harlequin's description, obviously (like the first sentence) and also in Jane's stat block (Harlequin's Back p. 148).



If Immortal Elves were anything else...like anything meant to ever be a playable character...then I might agree with the viewpoint that their Immunity to Disease does not apply to Awakened diseases like HMVV. But...come on.

Interesting, I've never actually read that adventure, and I assumed they treated like the first one; ie. no stats whatsoever.

The Blood Queen might disagree that they're immune to magical ailments though.

[Neurosis]

Harly has no stats but for some reason his fluff block specifically mentions his immunity to diseases! And stats for Jane are given.

[Sephiroth]

Interesting, I've never actually read that adventure, and I assumed they treated like the first one; ie. no stats whatsoever.

The Blood Queen might disagree that they're immune to magical ailments though.

ReNaming yourself is more than a bit different from being Infected, however.

[Laodicea]

You dont need for the Banshee to be an Immortal Elf to make her a valuable opponent.

Right. Any immortal elf power-broker would be a rough guy to be on the wrong side of. The difference between, say, Damien Knight, and this banshee fellow, is that the banshee has fundamentally different motivations and concerns in life. The banshee is also hiding himself from these witch-hunter priests, and possibly other enemies.

[WyldKnight]

Could be a Immortal Elf mad scientist. They sought a way to make other people immortal and created a sort of virus based on their own DNA. A magical plague that was meant to be a gift to those the madman/woman thought worthy of immortality. Problem was in science especially that based around genetics things happen that you can't predict and it mutated to what we know today. The scientist was infected with the first generation of the virus that was much more powerful before it became diluted for whatever reason and poof you got some sort of infected bent on correcting their mistake and creating a true immortality potion. Heck, you can take the immortal elf out of that and it would still work. Just the people who made it would have to be pretty powerful and were probably experimenting on something they found to be immortal...like an elf or some sort of critter sapient or otherwise. Idk, I'm pulling this out of nowhere so don't even try to apply logic to it lol.

[NetWraith]

JetBlack LIVES!

Only if you can find him and decrypt that strange disk thing that has the data on it... And watch out for the rats!

[Jaid]

immunity to disease, unlike immunity to age, has a rating. if a given disease can exceed that rating, in some way, the immortal elf can theoretically be infected with it. mind you, if we aim low and assume that immortal elves had a magic attribute of "only" 8 or 9 when they were first created, you'd need a power 16 or 18 virus (or one with enough penetration to get through that much protection). in the case of HMHVV II, it is power 13 with -6 penetration, which is enough for a magic 9 immortal elf who had just awakened (also, it's presumably possible for a given case of infection to come from a different virus. considering we're discussing someone getting infected potentially several thousand years ago, i don't think it's unreasonable to speculate that the disease may have changed since then).

but perhaps most important is the fact that the immortal elf in question would first have been drained to 0 essence before being infected. this would mean that the elf could have had a magic attribute as high as 15, and still wouldn't be able to instantly ignore it (note: technically, when you hit 0 essence you actually lose all your magic, but HMHVV appears to screw that up somehow, so we'll assume the elf still gets his immunity power)

but wait, there's more! HMHVV II is spread only by the infection power. the infection power does not grant a disease resistance test; it can be used when you are reduced to 0 essence, at which point the critter makes a magic + charisma test vs your body + willpower. theoretically, even a powerful magician could roll badly on the latter, and even a weak vampire could roll well on the former (or use edge), and if we assume it was a fairly powerful vampire (and possibly had spent essence to boost it's magic attribute - is that still technically possible these days?), then the odds change considerably... and since there is no disease resistance test involving the disease's power, immunity doesn't come into play. if the critter beats your roll, you are immediately infected. it becomes a much closer competition, and once infected, there are only 2 outcomes: you either arise as a vampire, or you die. even if you 'beat' the disease, you die. so you can imagine that if he somehow got infected, and didn't want to die, an immortal elf would have to accept life as a banshee.

[Machiavelli]

Please don´t forget that the infection with HMHVV does NOT reduce your essence to 0. There is no such statement in the description of the disease.

[Dahrken]

Well, yes, but the strain able to turn an elf into a Banshee requires the Infection power to affect it's recipient, and that make the "Drain to 0-Essence" step mandatory for a successful transformation.

[Jaid]

Well, yes, but the strain able to turn an elf into a Banshee requires the Infection power to affect it's recipient, and that make the "Drain to 0-Essence" step mandatory for a successful transformation.

exactly. before the infection test can even happen, you must first be drained to 0 essence. therefore, you're losing at least 6 points of essence, which equates to at least 6 points of magic, which equates to at least 12 points of immunity to disease. of course, if immortal elves have more than 6 points of essence, this is just going to be even worse for the immortal elf, but SR4 seems to have given everyone equal essence (except for stuff that has variable essence).