 Can we beatt he Horrors?, It needed its own thread. |
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 Jan 1 2004, 07:53 AM
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#101
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Runner  Group: Members Posts: 2,751 Joined: 8-August 03 From: Neighbor of the Beast Member No.: 5,375  |
So if the Horror can JUST see me I'm Marked??
Bullshit. There has to be more to it than that. Othewise the Horrors are just uberbadguys that PCs have no chance of beating. "Joy, the demon horde is here in all its coolness." |
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Jan 1 2004, 08:08 AM
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#102
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 518 Joined: 24-February 03 From: Tucson Member No.: 4,153 |
In Earthdawn there is a resistance test of sorts, but the more powerful the horror, the more difficult the test. I've never played Earthdawn, but from what I gather, it's not an easy test to overcome. With thier ability to affect a characters use of karma, you may not be able to even buy enough successes to overcome the marking. If you are a PC and you come up against a horror, chances are you're screwed. That's the point. Horrors are not some Johnny come lately you can just brush aside. They are the primordial evil that has been alive since the dawn of time, far longer than (meta)humaniti. Verjigorm is the SR equivalent to Great Cthulhu. You can wipe out the constructs easily enough, but the true horrors just make more. Taking on a true horror would be akin to taking on a god. You may think you're tough, but the horror has the voting stock on toughness and he just did a hostile takeover on your share. Ares is also an uberbadguy that the PC's cannot defeat, yet it is an entity in the game. The PC's can hurt it's minions... but Ares itself still stands and wipes out some of the PC's from time to time as well. That's why people and dragons hid during the last scourge. They knew better than to think they would win an all out war. |
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Jan 1 2004, 08:14 AM
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#103
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
And speaking of Mr Cthulhu.... NUKEAGE! ;)
Being tough won't help. There ain't enough stock options to wiggle your way out of a long retirement in poverty when hit by 2,121,320D+265,165 in taxes. (Sorry, my business language sucks, but you get the point...) Toughness will not help. At all. None. Corruption and all that will, but toughness is useless. |
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Jan 1 2004, 08:16 AM
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#104
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,066 Joined: 5-February 03 Member No.: 4,017 |
On the topic of nkes, how many nuclear weapons actually worked as designed since the Awakening?
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Jan 1 2004, 08:25 AM
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#105
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,751 Joined: 8-August 03 From: Neighbor of the Beast Member No.: 5,375 |
You dont really know the answer to "If they see me, I'm Marked". Of course they hid during the last scourge! Catapults and Ballistas are no match for SupraBeings. But (the phrase that started it all) "we have nukes." It would be horrible fight. But a fight metahumanity could win. Or at least make a good run at. The metahumanity that scourge faced 6000 years ago is wholy different from this one. They are not scared rodents hidding in cracks. They are a world wide force. Check out "Idependence Day". Not that would be that easy for metahumanity, but it gives you an idea. |
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Jan 1 2004, 08:28 AM
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#106
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
Cermak. And, umm, that's it? Combined with the amount of nuclear powerplant accidents, it goes to prove that style, drama and the metaplot always go before logic. So all this discussion is pretty useless, too, because the game designers can always make up something completely arbitrary if they like that better. That can't really be used as an argument for nuclear war in the 6th world not working though. That'd make about as much sense as "The Horrors win because, ehhhh, all important leaders of metahumanity suddenly go mad, yeah, that's it, that's why the Horrors win."
Man, that movie might not have sucked the incredible amounts of ass it did if only they had hit the alien ships with nukes. Nukes can make almost any movie good, which is why it's a pity you hardly ever see any. The ending of Terminator-3 totally rocked though. :D This post has been edited by Austere Emancipator: Jan 1 2004, 08:31 AM |
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Jan 1 2004, 08:34 AM
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#107
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,751 Joined: 8-August 03 From: Neighbor of the Beast Member No.: 5,375 |
Correct-o-mund-o. :) |
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Jan 1 2004, 08:49 AM
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#108
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 223 Joined: 23-December 03 Member No.: 5,929 |
horror mark was a test using the step number of the horror's horror mark power (usually around 20ish) against the character's spell defense step (usually around 10ish)
EDIT: so basically the horror had to beat a total of around 10 using his D20/D8/D6 as i stated previously with rolling dice, there are instances of talents that you can use to resist a horror mark thus allowing you to roll against the horror. /EDIT basically not much of a chance. those are fairly average numbers from the horrors mentioned in published materials. and i have no idea where the artificer nuking the 4th world came from. |
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Jan 1 2004, 08:59 AM
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#109
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,751 Joined: 8-August 03 From: Neighbor of the Beast Member No.: 5,375 |
@ northern lights:
So they can Mark us at will? The Artificer/Cermack thing was about Joker missunderstandering some posts. Meh, that happens 'round these parts. We don't reall make it easy... |
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Jan 1 2004, 09:07 AM
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#110
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 223 Joined: 23-December 03 Member No.: 5,929 |
well, not exactly. they have to be able to see you, but so long as they can, they can attempt to mark you. after that it is up to the dice. if you are using a talent and roll well enough to resist, then you aren't marked. though i have never seen restictions on how many times they can use it on you.
also check the edit above as i screwed something up. |
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Jan 1 2004, 09:16 AM
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#111
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,751 Joined: 8-August 03 From: Neighbor of the Beast Member No.: 5,375 |
Hmmm... So its pretty easy for them. Can they control us or get a bonus to the roll for control?
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Jan 1 2004, 09:19 AM
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#112
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,028 Joined: 9-November 02 From: The Republic of Vermont Member No.: 3,581 |
So, in other words, it's largely ineffective in a world where a marked individual can be over a hundred miles away in an hour without even trying hard, and is totally useless against an individual on, say, a habitat in geosynchronous orbit. |
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Jan 1 2004, 09:35 AM
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#113
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 223 Joined: 23-December 03 Member No.: 5,929 |
not so. horrors have their own ways of moving around as well. i would say yes it isn't as effective if the person can stay that far ahead of them, but if the horror has the ability to travel through astral space, he could easily beat that person, or meet him there moments after.
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Jan 1 2004, 09:44 AM
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#114
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
Yup, that's right. And that's exactly what my PCs did when they got wind of a Wild Hunt strike against them. Laid low on an orbital platform until the heat died down. |
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Jan 1 2004, 09:47 AM
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#115
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
Semi-ballistics and sub-orbitals have relative ground speeds of 12,000kph and 10,000kph, so the lower-power Horrors will be out. And following them into high athmosphere/out of athmosphere is impossible, too (Mana Warp and the actual speeds are far higher).
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Jan 1 2004, 10:02 AM
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#116
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 223 Joined: 23-December 03 Member No.: 5,929 |
don't discount the horror's ability to convince someone to put it on the next flight somehow. and it will always know where the subject is, though the subject may not always know where the horror is. so he could be fleeing towards the horror at some point.
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Jan 1 2004, 10:04 AM
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#117
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
A Horror on a Semi-ballistic. That would save metahumanity the trouble for its part. :)
(The Horror would have to endure the space Mana Warp for a significant length of time...) |
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Jan 1 2004, 10:32 AM
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#118
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 223 Joined: 23-December 03 Member No.: 5,929 |
somehow being the imperitive word. it need't neccessarily be a semi. nor does it need to be immediate. the point being that the horror could follow the person through similar means. running isn't really a solution when it always knows where the target is.
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Jan 1 2004, 11:14 AM
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#119
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
Well, if we can get 1 billion Horrors just flying around the world trying to catch up with their marked targets, that's something. :)
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Jan 1 2004, 11:28 AM
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#120
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 223 Joined: 23-December 03 Member No.: 5,929 |
i think you're onto something here. we won't run or hide, we'll play monkey in the middle with metahumanity instead of a ball.
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Jan 1 2004, 11:50 AM
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#121
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 476 Joined: 30-December 03 From: Fresno, CFS: taking out one durned furriner at a time. Member No.: 5,940 |
Maybe I watched a different Independence Day... But I could have sworn they nuked the ship above Houston... (and not scratching it... unlike the city underneath it). Back to the topic... Personally I side on (meta)Humanity kicking the snot out of the Horrors... cuz the alternative (despite whatever cheese-monkey powers they may have) makes for a very poor story, IMO. Though, wouldn't the act of marking people provide a conduit to attack the Horror that marked the poor sap? SR doesn't go deep into the Magical Theories of it's world, but I could see a Ritual Sorcery killing them using the very power that makes them near invulnerable. (Using a form of Identity/Sympathy). Granted, the marked might not like becoming a living Voodoo doll (and summarily sacrificed), but "the good of the many outweigh the good of the few... or one." |
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Jan 1 2004, 11:56 AM
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#122
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
Or maybe I was laughing or crying so hard that I paid no attention...
Interesting idea... Ritual Link through Marks. Could that work in theory? Nevermind the Horrors' magical defences and all that crap, would it theoretically be possible to attack a Horror with Ritual Magic through the Horror's Mark? |
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Jan 1 2004, 12:54 PM
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#123
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 476 Joined: 30-December 03 From: Fresno, CFS: taking out one durned furriner at a time. Member No.: 5,940 |
See, ya miss all the funny parts when yer too busy laughing. :D |
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Jan 1 2004, 04:33 PM
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#124
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 588 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 227 |
The best weapon the horros have is thier ability to manipulate metahumanity. The more powerful the weapons available to metahumnity are, the more of the threat the horors could be...
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Jan 1 2004, 04:59 PM
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#125
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 518 Joined: 24-February 03 From: Tucson Member No.: 4,153 |
Unfortuneately, the answer would be no in most cases. Most of the time you would never even find the mark itself as it is blended into the patern of the marked aura. If the horror has the suprress horror mark power, then it can be masked... making even more difficult to find. Here's problem number two. If you did start using ritual sorcery, the horror is going to know through his link with the marked. He shows up in asral space and marks ALL your mages, and because they are using raw magic it becomes woefully easy for it to do. The only way to win against the horrors is to ride out the scourge until they are gone. That's the way you win. Here's the big picture. The horrors want to destroy humaniti entirely. That is thier ultimate goal. You start using nukes across the panet willy nilly... you further THIER goal by killing humaniti. Openly fight them and your people get slaughtered and once again, you further thier goal. Not every battle is fought with weapons and combat skills. Sometimes, the way to win the battle is not to fight at all. So if thier goal is the elimination of humaniti, obviously, the only goal that matters for humaniti is survival. That means hiding in vaults/kaers until the scourge abates. Any other tactic will probably only work to the best interest of the horrors. |
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