Prisons and punishment, opening the books thats thrown Options

[BitBasher]

Okay, we will never meet in the middle on this, and your responses are growing more sarcastic than makes for an enjoyable thread. How about you do it the way you want in your game and I'll do it the way I want in my game. Everyone's happy!

have a nice day! :)

[Nikoli]

Drones aren't a bad idea, but they need backup. Drone sensors do not get a chance to resist some illusion spells. Which means that makes it all the harder to determine an escape if and once they happen.

[Kagetenshi]

The Awakened ivy isn't that expensive, IIRC.

Also, Drones eat illusions for lunch if you spend enough on Sensors. Just keep a sensor lock on the inmates, and they're not going anywhere.

~J

[Kagetenshi]

Double-posts provide even better security.

~J

[Abstruse]

Why bother with Awakened ivy? Regular ivy works just as well. You can't move through a living thing when astrally active no matter what.

The Abstruse One

[TinkerGnome]

That was second edition. This is third. You can move through living things in third edition.

[Entropy Kid]

Is there a cost and availability for FAB-III listed anywhere? That seems to be a reasonable way to control mages, if they're going to a super-max (underground, etc.) style prison anyway.

[BitBasher]

Gonna put 200,000+ people in super underground prisons?

[Shev]

To stir things up even more.... :D

What about adepts? You obviously don't have to worry about them projecting, but you can't just remove their power like cyberware, and I have to think that removing their abilities completely is fairly rare. Maybe drugs of some kind?

[A Rodent of Unus...]

[CircuitBoyBlue]

Somebody brought up the excellent point, though, that even if the prison isn't intended for magical prisoners, you still want some reliable way of keeping magic users out. Just because someone isn't magically active doesn't mean they don't have several friends who are high grade initiates and would help them break out.

[Omega Skip]

I wonder why the subject of ritual tracking hasn't been brought up yet. It seems to me that the easiest way to assure a magically active prisoner's compliance would be to take as many ritual samples as possible - no magic user in his right mind would (ok, should) even think about trying anything as long as those samples are around. Same goes with adepts and mundanes, of course.

Thoughts?

[Zazen]

[A Rodent of Unus...]

Sure, there's tons of ways to keep them in check. That's why the notion of stripping any magician of his abilities simply because he's put in prison is ridiculous.

[Zazen]

The ritual thing hardly does shit to keep him in check. I'd want to keep my prisoners from doing bad things, not simply threaten them if they do. I don't see why a lifer would care about repurcussions that are hours or days away from being realized. Not when there's a female prison guard right freaking here and you know that you'll never smell the sweet scent of womanhood again for as long as you live.

[Omega Skip]

Which is why I imagine they don't assign female guards to cell blocks conatining sex-crazed lifers. But it's true, ritual samples alone won't do the trick with those people who are in it for life. Maybe there is no easy way to deal with this sort of criminal. The only thing I could think of is taking away their magic entirely, even though that does constitute a violation of some very basic civil rights. And human rights.

But on the other hand, prisoners usually don't enjoy all of their civil rights, do they?

[TinkerGnome]

[Nikoli]

Could always brainwash them to believe their powers don't work insid ethe prison. Remember folks, magic is 9/10ths in the mind. If your magician believes with all of thier heart something is just so, it is for them.
When the sentence is up, undo the brain washing.

[Pistons]

There are ways to ensure a mage doesn't use his abilities without completely stripping them away -- mage masks, for example. Drugs can also help; hard to spellcast when you can't concentrate. Ditto for projecting.

Mages might get their own cells in a wing of a prison, with guards on them that know what to look for in regard to spellcasting, astral projection (as much as one could, since it's hard to tell the difference between falling asleep and projecting without being a mage as well) and the like. Might have a mage or two on duty to double check on these inmates.

[Nikoli]

If I were a guard in a mage prison, I'd be tempted to move the bodies of projecting mages just for spite. But that's me.

[Omega Skip]

Yep, Tinker's policy is sure to go reeeally well with the victims' families / friends. "Sorry Mrs. Bowinkle, but we've decided not to fry the guy who offed your husband and father of your four adorable little kids. As a matter of fact, his killer is now working for us as a freelance-operative, doing what he's best at. Uh, have a nice day."

If I read you right, your point is that since there's so few mages, killing them or locking them away forever would be a waste, so that's why people are looking for ways to recycle magic users. Compare this to the following situation: A man, caucasian, 30 years old, IQ of 165, highly talented IT specialist / neurosurgeon / whatever goes and kills 5 cops and 2 bystanders in the state of Texas. What do you think they would do to him?

I understand if you're looking for ways in which a PC mage could get around going to jail, but I don't think that a convicted murderer, especially a magically active one, should expect any leniency. At least not in my game. :vegm:

[Herald of Verjig...]

[Omega Skip]

True, the cases really aren't that similar. But I'm still not convinced that a convicted murderer should be given a (forced cooperation we'll-kill-you-if-you-step-outta-line) job. I can't imagine the kind of human ressources director who'd greenlight this kind of decision.

Something that could help in this thread would be if somebody with a legal background could chip in a few examples of "who got how much for what". Anybody?

[Kagetenshi]

[TinkerGnome]

Frankly, considering that many corporations consider prisoners to be convenient test subjects for all manner of chemical, cybernetic, and biological experiments, forced labor is a positive choice. Being an operative (with a nice little cranial bomb and all sorts of other "perks" like your own handler who likes to enforce his discipline with a stun baton) sounds like a stellar experience to me.

The real question is how much of this goes on in the public realm. I'd wager that there is a fair amount if only because locking a mage away in a manner which will prevent him from using magic is not likely to lead to reform. And an unreformed magical criminal simply can't be released back onto the public where 99.9% of the population has no hope of defending themselves against him.