Prisons and punishment, opening the books thats thrown Options

[Nikoli]

but that can fall out. and doesn't provide the potential for total body override like a datajack. and you take a non-cruel chunk of power from your inmates. datajacks are so common according to teh fluff text in several books that a person without, awakened or not might potentially be considered wierd by some folks.

[A Rodent of Unus...]

See edit above.

'Course, a datajack can "fall out" just as easily, if not moreso. Hence the locked rig; a full-head harness that's locked on that can't be jiggled lose. Far more secure than a simple plug in the head, cheaper, and thus less invasive/illegal to implement.

[Nikoli]

I did not the jack stop, didn't I? but my impressionof the trode rig was that it wasn't as fully immersive for the user, where the jack was.

[A Rodent of Unus...]

They only difference is one of speed while decking (half Reaction and max Initiative of 2D6) and that it takes 3 Combat Turns to put on.

[Nikoli]

good to know. my next awakened character may have computer skill after all.

[Wanderer]

According to MitS, the standard procedure involves feeding the prisoners a continous simsense feed that gives them a +10 to any ability requiring any kind of concentration (and that includes magic, folks) and a Willpower (14) test for astral projection.

And electrode simsense connection is just as immersive as the datajack one, for purpose of simsense expereince intensity. There is a lowered decking speed, but that's all. Lock the elctrode simsense harness, and your criminal magician is effectively neutralized.

It would take a double-digit initiate with obscene ratings in Willpower, Sorcery, Conjuration, and Centering Skill to effectively use magic with such penalties. Sure, once in a blue moon, one can get lucky; that's why you keep around some Awakened prison guards, wards, and spirits. But nothing more than ordinary magical security. The State, or the contracted corp running prison security can easily afford it.

I'd say that lockable electrode rigs are the norm. They are reusable, and cheaper than fitting each convict a datajack.

[CircuitBoyBlue]

So it's cruel and unusual to make someone a normal human being, but not to deprive them of the ability to concentrate? That just doesn't make any sense.

But as far as the simsense thing goes, giving everyone a datajack WOULD encourage them to use magic less in the future by lowering their magic rating. Or it would encourage them to get initiated, one of the two.

[Kagetenshi]

The difference is that the inability to concentrate isn't permanent.

~J

[TinkerGnome]

The resulting insanity may well be, however ;)

[Nikoli]

Great so instead of predicatble shamans or hermetics we might wind up with a pack of Path of Madness people? that's an angle I hadn't thought of

[BitBasher]

[Thistledown]

[Kanada Ten]

[Thistledown]

Really? Hmm. Must have been remembering an old book then. Oh well. Guess plants aren't what they used to be.

[A Rodent of Unus...]

As long as they make entrance and exiting 1) alarmable and 2) time-consuming, there's going to be very little concern about the precious few criminals who can get around a magemask and simsense feed. Astral projection can let one get one, but there's one tiny problem. Their real bodies are still stuck behind bars. And harm done to that, is done to the projector.

Cattle prod + meat body = disrupted projector and baaaaaaad consequences.

[BitBasher]

Man, Never underestimate the ability of someone to do damage to the outside world through communication. Unmonitored communication with the outside world is a bad, bad thing. Projection facilitates this. They can listen to conversations (with a built in lie detector). use your imagination how bad that could be.

[A Rodent of Unus...]

Once again, any inmate could concievably escape prison. However, unlike other inmates, a projecting magician is screwed. Period.

It's also not like there's going to be a hoard of high-grade initiates in prison -- if they're really that high grade, chances are they didn't get caught without going down in a hail of gunfire or spellslinging. Your typical magician is screwed by the simsense and/or magemask alone. Those precious few who do manage to get around that and still have the 'nads to try and project despite the reprecussions deserve everything they suffer when they try to do so. Assuming they even succeed.

Again, they're going to have to get past at least one powerful (alarm) ward, biofiber, guardian vines, and probably even a few bound elementals doubtlessly patrolling the facility. Note also that only about 1/10th of the prison needs to be guarded as such, and probably far less than that.

But let's say they get around all of that. Once they're out... so what? It's extremely doubtful that they managed to do it undetected and now their meatbody is utterly screwed. It only takes a single unresisted jolt from a cattle prod to bring the idiot back to his body, and hell, I can even see the simsense/'trode net monitoring their vitals or concentration and triggering a KO shock (or even drug dose) as a failsafe, especially on high-risk prisoners.

Should they somehow manage to get out undetected, they're obviously a phenomenal outlayer to begin with -- just like any successful escapee.

Regardless, all of that is still far cheaper and far more legal than permanently crippling the magician or even installing a single datajack in a single prisoner.

[Kanada Ten]

Ares Transcript:
Hello colonist! Welcome to Seti Alpha Five, your new home! If you work hard to terraform this planet, you will once again be able to use your magical powers! So work hard, work well, and life will grow!

[Joker9125]

I seriously doubt that making a magican mundane would be even remotely praticed (except for the worst possible offenders) for the simple reason that no magican would ever go down without a fight if they knew their was even a 25% chance they would perminantly lose all their magic. I for one would much rather die in a firefight where I incinerated 5 to 10 cops than lose all my magic. And whats more before they could even use the procedure theirs a good chance that the magician will have an oppertunity to resist and go down fighting

[BitBasher]

All I can say ROUS is that your expectations of what would happen in a prison and what you think would be normal reveal the fact that you do not work in one. Almost nothing like that, especially to that degree is really viable.

[A Rodent of Unus...]

Yes, and I'm sure you work in one. Complete with magicians. And where they regularly perform invasive surgery to implant datajacks in their prisoners, or worse, cripple them for life just because of they have abilities that the majority do not. Even if those abilities had nothing to do with the crime the prisoner commited.

If so, you got me there. Might as well just put a bullet in every prisoner's brain. No security needed that way.

[Thistledown]

BTY: George Fell was one of the operators on the first electric chair. It was also the name I gave one of my characters who worked in a shadowrun prison.

[Person 404]

One thing to think about here is, how many prisons for the awakened are necessary? There's a small percentage of the population that's awakened, a smaller percentage that learn to use magic for anything remotely useful, and any of these that aren't completely shiftless or psychotic pretty much have guaranteed access to a nice, high-paying job whenever they want it. I'd say the government could afford a few extra-high security prisons. I certainly wouldn't expect one in every state.

[SporkPimp]

What are the physiological effects of astral projection? (I don't have my BBB with me.)

Is there anything? A change in brainwave pattern, a drop in vital signs/metabolic function?

If so, you could basically rig this gear up into a secure headpiece:
1) 2 digital cameras, over each eye.
2) 2 digital displays, again one for each eye (to keep binocular vision and depth perception)
3) Something to detect the appropriate physiological change... standard monitor of some sort, probably.
4) Tazer.

So, mage has no line of sight at all, but is still fully capable -- only his magic ability is removed. Meanwhile, astral projection is blocked by the tazer, which will jolt the magician until he either comes back or takes Deadly stun (and thus is disrupted).

This wouldn't cost all that much, would pretty much take care of itself (the cameras and stuff would barely use up any electricity, and you'd have plenty of time to recharge after a discharge), and would be easy to use, especially since it would very rarely be necessary.

Edit: Though I suppose the mage could simply use magic to disable the headgear... if he had a spell that he could reasonably cast on his own head that would destroy the tazer in one shot. Something that specifically targeted headwear -- "Wreck Hat" or something? Or maybe the simsense feed could include the input from the digital cameras, so that the prisoner can still see the room, except in SimSense form?

That said, wouldn't prisons have FAB or wards anyway? Don't you want to keep astral forms OUT as well as IN?

[TinkerGnome]

Person 404 brings up a point I almost made yesterday. If you've got a mage in jail, he's likely an official "waste of life". I have a feeling that the vast majority of mages find themselves with a "work instead of jail" option. For the others, they're either insane, useless, or hold odd ideas about "personal freedom". All cases where removing the magic center of their brain would be a favor for society as a whole.