 The Horrors and Death Magic? Answers In Earthdawn, And Who's Really Behind Aztlan-SPOILERS- |
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 Jan 16 2004, 04:55 AM
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#76
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Immortal Elf  Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670  |
hey, shake, if it's not worth getting angry over, then it's not worth making pretentious insults about maturity about, is it? trolling in order to piss someone off is just as bad as getting pissed off--and if you honestly didn't intend to piss AH off, then you need lessons in how humans communicate way more than he needs psychotherapy.
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Jan 16 2004, 05:10 AM
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#77
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Shake: imagine this. You spend your money on the entirety of two rather substantial RPG systems. Not just one, but two of them. You then spend your time reading all of them, not just skimming, but reading in depth, and then cross-referencing all of the information contained within, checking references between materials and game systems. You spend quite a lot of time on this, actually, as I'm not sure how quickly AH reads but as a fast reader myself it typically takes a week to get through a Shadowrun book, sometimes two (please note that this is taking into account Real Life™; with proper will and enough time it could be done in a few solid hours, but those are solid hours that are seldom available). You then additionally spend your time and effort not merely to create a site that includes a fair amount of information, but also to keep tabs on a board for one of these games and interject some of the information your research has brought you that most people wouldn't have access to.
You do this, and you do it for free. Now, do you perhaps think that maybe, JUST MAYBE, that something, even a game, would start to mean a decent amount to you after this much time, money, and effort invested in it? You clearly state that you are not an expert by any means. There's the difference between you; he is. ~J |
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Jan 16 2004, 05:16 AM
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#78
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Target Group: Members Posts: 69 Joined: 8-July 02 Member No.: 2,947 |
In case you weren't aware, Master Shake, The Ancient Files, Ancient History's site, are regarded as the definitive reference for SR/ED crossovers. He's very, very knowledgeable about this stuff, and very, very good.
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Jan 16 2004, 05:18 AM
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#79
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
Hey, it's starting to look like a cat fight between academics...
Seriously, Master(That's one hell of an ego, you've got there) Shake, you could have been a little more respectful. Afterall, you are just another Target(notice that little title below your name?) and AH's Running a lot faster than you. If you didn't really mean to be insulting, maybe you need to put a :D or ;) after your provacative posts. Now only if you could Quote chapter and verse properly... :noob: OK, OK, just kidding... NOT! :noflame: :rollin: |
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Jan 16 2004, 06:16 AM
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#80
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Target Group: Members Posts: 69 Joined: 8-July 02 Member No.: 2,947 |
Master Shake is a character on a cartoon on Adult Swim, you philistine. :P
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Jan 16 2004, 06:22 AM
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#81
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 498 Joined: 31-May 02 From: All the way in the Back to the Left. Member No.: 2,800 |
Just don't tell Meat Wad.
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Jan 16 2004, 06:29 AM
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#82
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,047 Joined: 12-November 03 From: Perilously close to the Sioux Nation. Member No.: 5,818 |
Cause he gets the honey, see...
"Charcoalgrin was not known to be corrupted, and all evidence of a dragon behind AZT points to either DUnkie or a Feathered." Insult my dog, my wife and my kids, but don't insult my dragon! (Yes, I'm unmarried and in college). Seriously, I find the idea of Dunkie being behind Aztechnology very unlikely. You may have information I am unaware of, however. |
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Jan 16 2004, 06:32 AM
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#83
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Like, for example, the abundance of Aztechnology shares that he doled out in his will? |
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Jan 16 2004, 06:37 AM
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#84
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,047 Joined: 12-November 03 From: Perilously close to the Sioux Nation. Member No.: 5,818 |
I'm inclined to count those to the money he made.
If he was behind it all, he could of put the whole board in the hands of one person, besides tacking on one. And knowing his penchant for people in position of power being obvious (Tirs, anyone), I think he'd publicize the lists if he knew. |
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Jan 16 2004, 06:48 AM
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#85
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
I really think he's more trying to out the IEs rather than push for transparency of upper ranks in general. Actually, he's probably just tweaking the IEs; I don't think he's stupid enough to expect them to actually ever fulfill the terms of the Will.
~J |
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Jan 16 2004, 07:11 AM
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#86
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,512 Joined: 16-August 03 From: Northampton Member No.: 5,499 |
Neither do i, but in making that request he started making more people think What have they got to hide?
Which i think was the point. |
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Jan 16 2004, 01:30 PM
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#87
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935 |
I'm better now. Just a knee-jerk FLAME ON! reaction. Thanks for the support, y'all.
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Jan 16 2004, 02:04 PM
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#88
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 555 Joined: 11-August 03 Member No.: 5,408 |
Just to say something in this post, Master Shake has some neat ideas, that although they might not flow entirely with the history, does seem like a fun idea. Since hte books do leave a lot of "thruth" up to the GM, it might be a fun idea to run with. Anyways, the biggest problem I see with it is that Charcoalgrin isnt a feathered serpent, which appears on some book cover flying over Aztlan
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Jan 16 2004, 02:35 PM
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#89
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 228 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Melbourne Member No.: 652 |
My main problem with the Shaker comes from his "I quote" in his last post. He didn't quote much at all. (Neither did you AH)
I don't own any ED books, and I'll admit to being real spotty on the history of it. But I am the type who likes to know what people are quoting from, and the actual quotes they are using. |
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Jan 16 2004, 03:15 PM
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#90
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Target Group: Members Posts: 75 Joined: 24-August 02 Member No.: 3,168 |
I'm still intruiged by the notion of Parlainth moving to South America, think it could be possible. Unless, is anything mentioned in the Theran sourcebooks about them having holdings in South America?
Still, that aside... Dunkelzahn in charge of Aztechnology??? Huh! What? I'd like to hear the evidence for that fact as I've never even seen anything to hint at that. He may have had shares, but I severely doubt he was controlling the corporation. For me that would totally jar with the material in the Aztlan sourcebook (one of the major sources for 'immortal' stuff in SR) Could someone please point me to some page references, novels or something to back this up? |
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Jan 16 2004, 03:18 PM
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#91
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Target Group: Members Posts: 42 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,114 |
The Therans had a province in america, named Araucania. I don't know how much of america was colonized, but it might be why the same style can be found in Parlainth and South america.
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Jan 16 2004, 03:48 PM
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#92
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 619 Joined: 27-May 03 From: Detroit Member No.: 4,642 |
I must say, as a history major myself, I know how much work goes into correlating all the material for something like AH's many projects and you would be pretty close if you guessed "enormous". :D
But even more, I am impressed with how carful AH is in formulating theories. He never, I repeat never assumes facts that are not in evidence. He does not make wild leaps to support a claim. He applies Occam's Razor masterfully. He always acknowledges his biases and points out where his own flaws may be. Someone with that degree of academic discipline is welcome to absolutely shred any theory of mine any time he wants. Good God! If only some of my textbooks were as well thought out as his material. Thank you AH, you have increased mine and my group's enjoyment of SR manyfold. |
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Jan 16 2004, 03:53 PM
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#93
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Moo!! Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 75 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 424 |
Well, here's a little quote directly from Dunkelzahn in Beyond the Pale. "My fellow dragons are overconfident... Technology changes everything. No magic can protect against it. There will be no hiding this time. There will only be war. We must gain the time we need to build our technology so that we have the ability to fight the Enemy when it can cross." I think is pretty clearly states that dunkelzahn intends for Humanity to fight the Horrors with technology. As for Dunkelzahn being behind Aztechnology, I find the notion to be absurd. Dunkelzahn was a good person, as far as dragons go. Yeah yeah, you can say "oh it was all an act, Never Deal with a Dragon, blah, blah, ad nausem, blah." Or you can actually have a little hope in this world, and think that just maybe Dunkelzahn was exactly what he appeared to be.... a Caring protector of Humanity. And as for the Master Shake/Ancient History spat..... Shake, you have some neat ideas. However, when push comes to shove, if AH says you're wrong, you're wrong. Dude's the bomb diggitty when it comes to ED/SR crossover information. |
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Jan 16 2004, 04:02 PM
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#94
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 369 Joined: 1-September 03 From: New York State Member No.: 5,563 |
Damn shame this thread had to degenerate in to this kind of fight. It was interesting. Perhaps it can get back on track? One question though. If ED and S were taking place in the same fictional universe (more or less) why were the game systems so different? OK another question. Why haven't some the other races from ED shown up yet? From the little I remeber they didn't seem to need high amounts of mana. What's up with that?
Thanos |
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Jan 16 2004, 04:16 PM
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#95
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 518 Joined: 24-February 03 From: Tucson Member No.: 4,153 |
I agree with Pthgar. AH has been a great font of knowledge and backs himself very well. While I do like some of the ideas Shake has thrown out, I'd consider them more of an alternate universe kind of ideas. When it comes to trying to be as canon as possible, I'll take AH's info as gospel any day of the week. Keep movin AH, I'll cover ya. :) |
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Jan 16 2004, 04:28 PM
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#96
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
First off, I find it ironic that you're saying this as the fight winds down :) Second, yes, they don't need a "high level" of mana, but remember how much mana there is in the world. We are FIFTY YEARS from the Awakening; we're a lot closer to the bottom of the downcycle than the top of the upcycle, I'd say. Besides, I think Obsidimen would need rather a lot of mana (comparatively) to manifest. T'skrang maybe not so much, and we already have Windlings. Give it a few hundred years. ~J |
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Jan 16 2004, 04:38 PM
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#97
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 184 Joined: 1-January 04 Member No.: 5,948 |
Don't know about anyone else, but when I read that the formula for the vaccination Dunkie's will contained dragon blood/genes, my first thought was that it was to aid those who were later going to become the T'skrang. |
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Jan 16 2004, 04:47 PM
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#98
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 619 Joined: 27-May 03 From: Detroit Member No.: 4,642 |
I remember readining an interview a few years ago, I think it was on the DS Archive, with Mike Mulvihill. I seem to remember him saying that the T'Skrang and Obsidimen didn't make it through the down cycle. I'll keep trying to find it.
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Jan 16 2004, 05:52 PM
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#99
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 369 Joined: 1-September 03 From: New York State Member No.: 5,563 |
Well we haven't seen Shake's reply to the out pouring of support for AH. So who says its winding down? This may be the calm before the storm. :) Thanos P.S. Yeah. OK. I think it's winding down now as well. |
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Jan 16 2004, 06:03 PM
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#100
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 675 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Member No.: 2,034 |
Bah obsidimen are just too cool to be extinct.
Besides even if they do exist they might just be taking a few hundered years to bother getting more than a few miles from thier liferocks or something, and maybe only really remote ones have managed not to be stripmined or something. Obsidimen are leisurely like that. Weren't they still considered childeren until they were a couple hundered years old? |
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