Money, all comes down to money in the end Options

[Serbitar]

Im going to extend my fluff section a little and want to talk about money. How much money gets a runner for this and that job.

Parameters:
- shadowrunning should earn you more money than stealing cars
(Eurocar Westwind = 85k. 30% of this is 30k, about 6k for everyone in the team)
- there should be enough money, so that there is enough room for character development (cyberware, bioware) in a reasonable time
- money should be balanced against karma. we don't want to unbalance magicians, adepts and technomancers by providing everybody else with huge amounts of money, that they can not use effectively, so money and karma goes kind of hand in hand. I suggest a karma to money ratio of 1:2500
- personally I think the money rules in the companion arent worth anything

so here is my proposal:
note:
- as always, only general guidelines. daviations -50% + 100% are always possible. Just to give players an impression of what their characters think is appropriate
- all prices are per capita (though Jonsons will always pay per job and thus pick a team of fitting size)
- it is assumed that shadowrunners of the power level that results from the generation rules are needed for the job and that the average street punk would not be able to do the job

Matrixruns:
Rating 4 node: 2,000 Nuyen
Rating 5 node: 5,000 Nuyen
Rating 6 node: 10,000+ Nuyen

Investigations: 300 Nuyen per day
Expliciltly magic investigation: 400 Nuyen per day
Observations: 200 Nuyen per day
Explicitly magic observations: 300 Nuyen per day

Wetwork: 5,000+ Nuyen
Break-In: 2,000 Nuyen
Extraction: 10,000 Nuyen
Transport: 1,000 Nuyen
Combat: 5,000 Nuyen

danger bonus:
slight security (uncybered guards, HTRT arrives in 20 minutes after alarm): 5,000 Nuyen
medium security (cybered guards, drones), HTRT in 10 minutes: 10,000 Nuyen
heavy security (heavily cybered guards, mages, military drones, HTRT in 5 minutes): 20,000 Nuyen
extreme security (everything you can think of): 30,000+ Nuyen
explicitly magical danger: 10,000+ Nuyen

Please discuss and give comments. If possible give reaons why something is to cheap, expensive.

[Moon-Hawk]

Another thing to consider, which types of runs pay by the runner and which ones are a flat rate.
Bodyguard, Surveillance, etc could reasonably pay an amount per runner. It costs more to hire an extra bodyguard.
Wetwork, datasteal, extraction, transport, etc should pay a flat rate, regardless of how many or how few people are on the team and do the run. There is a discrete goal or set of goals that is being paid for.
Does this mean a bigger team gets screwed? No. A bigger team should be handling tougher missions than a smaller team. Tougher missions that pay better. Roughly proportionately better.
But still, the idea that "get X and I'll pay you each Y" seems weird to me, but I know many groups do things that way. To me, it seems much more reasonable to "pay Z for the delivery of X."

[stevebugge]

Maybe you can build off of this. (It's tuned for SR4's generally lower prices so if you aren't working that way it won't be of any use to you)

http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=11811

In general these look way to high for an average campaign, if you are in to a highpowered one they might work. I rarely payout over 3K per person on a run (unless it's a published run and says differently) I like my characters to have to wrestle with "to loot or not to loot" and questions like that. I also tend to try to keep rare and expensive gear, rare and expensive in my games. Major advancements or upgrades usually require a self directed run.

[Serbitar]

[Serbitar]

[stevebugge]

That's fine. I think's it fair to say you probably wouldn't enjoy my game and I probably wouldn't care for yours much. Different styles is all.

[Serbitar]

Sure, no problem.

[Kleaner]

I pay out a lot to my players, but then again running is expensive. Characters are constantly ditching cars, gear, guns, handing out bribes, paying off guards and contacts , paying for smuggling, multiple hide outs and lifestyles, buying specific gear for a run...

Regardless most runners are past their prime around age 40... if they want to retire early they'll need around 50-60 years of income saved up. (We'll assume the average life expectancy in 2070 is around 90-100.)

For a high lifestyle your talking over 7 mill! (This is enough if your investments are beating inflation....you'll need a lot more if you plan on keeping it under your mattress...)

If a runner wants to retire in luxury.... figure around 1.2-1.5 mill per year you expect to live.

Better start saving!

[TinkerGnome]

I think your fundamental assumption about stealing cars may be somewhat flawed. However, your numbers come out about right. My assumption would be:

A shadowrunner should be able to cover reasonable expenses, pay for a medium lifestyle (or two lows), and have a little left over by doing one run a month. By this count, the pay should come out between 5k and 15k per month for starting runners. If you run more often, reduce accordingly and less often increase.

The value of obvious and expected loot should fit into this total.

For your numbers. Matrixruns should probably be worth half your number if they're possible via VR or twice your numbers if they require on-site hacking. Runner teams aren't often called in to do VR hacks, so maybe those don't even need mentioning. I'd adjust the "magical" items to be double or triple the mundane versions (just in deference to the small number of magicians out there).

I'd cut your existing danger bonuses in half and add a number of modifiers that you don't include:

The activity must remain undiscovered for a few days: +days x 1000 :nuyen:
The activity must remain undiscovered for a long period of time: +5,000 :nuyen:
No looting: +5,000 :nuyen:
No killing restriction: +50% of security bonus
Item/person must be sat on for a period of time: +20% of security bonus/day
Short timetable (2-5 days): +25% of total (figured last)
Very short timetable (< 48 hours): +50% of total (figured last)

I would also caveat and say that the value you derive is the Johnson's maximum budget for the run. His initial offering price will be less (about 2/3 of the total) though it can be increased through negotiations (say 20% of the reserve for every net hit on a negotiations test). Also, cash up front should be worth more than cash on the back end. Assume a standard of 20% up front, I'd say, and let the negotiator use net hits to add to it instead of increasing the payout on the backend.

Following this, a run I recently put to some players was to rough up someone under moderate security, killing noone. The initial offer was 10k. Doing the math, this system (with my modifications) would give me a max of (wetwork 5,000 + moderate security 5,000 + no killing 2,500 = 12,500 + 4 day timetable 3,125 = 15,625 :nuyen: which is about what I was going to set anyway.

[Moon-Hawk]

I'm somewhat skeptical that most runners are in it because of long-term financial planning, or because they're good at saving their money.

[stevebugge]

[Brahm]

That is a flawed problem, they left out a critical piece of information. The street prices of Joygirls and BTLs. Or is that assumed prior knowledge for SPS students?

[stevebugge]

By 4th grade? They better know!

[Kleaner]

[Serbitar]

[TinkerGnome]

[Serbitar]

Im more the GM that does the metagming in the setting.
The setting should be such that a standard run under standard conditions with a standard frequency returns the desired results. After this is set, the output money doesnt change for exactly the same run, just because they do it more often. In a game where players are kind of playing against the game worl, consistency is quite important.

To the other question: I wont be doing this kind of rules. I think that would lead to far. Even the money thing is not meant as a rule, but as a guideline for fluff text.

[TinkerGnome]

[Serbitar]

ah ok, now i get your point

[Brahm]

There are going to be some lean times and some fat times. Different kinds of jobs are going to pay differently and require different cost layouts, and sometimes the team will run into a streak of bad luck or be visited by the Fc*kup Fairy. Any of these can very quickly upset the laid out plans.

I remember one of the first threads I followed, but didn't post in, was about this GM that didn't hand out cash for runs at all. I'm going to try find it, I really liked the in the family feel it sounded like it gave to the game. Even if you aren't actually in the Mafia. That you were bartering and part of an underground economy. You wanted new gear? If it is fully legal and the price was low enough that it was just a impulse buy you just got it. Say an armored vest or a new lowend commlink.

But if it was expensive like a car or normally an item that is greymarket or blackmarket you likely went out and stole it, did a job for someone to get it in trade, or collected on an outstanding favour someone owed you.

Maybe you wouldn't need to have all runs like this, but even half or most of them would help relying on trying to set down numbers up front. Lifestyles could even be handled this way in a pinch. For example where a runner housesits for a friend of a friend or stays in one of the crappy coffin motels that is a business owned by one of his fixers. Worrying about the end of the month lifestyle change then disappears.


Here is the thread.

http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=10894

[TinkerGnome]

That's certainly interesting and a good way to play. Even then, however, having a "credit value" for a run could still prove handy to figure out what kind of favor would merit certain rewards.

[Brahm]

[neko128]

[TinkerGnome]

[Brahm]