Money, all comes down to money in the end Options

[TinkerGnome]

I think you're giving most groups more credit than they really deserve. I don't see anything wrong with using cred, though you apparently do. I can say that of the many groups I've played with, I don't think any would have been capable of pulling off that type of system for any length of time. Gamers aren't the most mature of people in the first place, and unless your group is dedicated primarily to SR (and in areas with limited pools of players that's pretty rare) it's just not going to work out well.

Besides, who says that you can't get item rewards (free, discounted, or just available) on occasion in a game that uses cred for payment? Just using items doesn't seem like it would have the same cumulative feel that saving up cred does over the long haul.

I would utilize a system like this for a ganger game. It's perfect for that. I don't see pros working everything on the barter system, though.

[Brahm]

[Serbitar]

Could we now please get back to the topic at hand?
A good description of baseline payment for runs in Nuyen?

[Brahm]

[fistandantilus4....]

[Kremlin KOA]

your math is off you mised out a zero

[fistandantilus4....]

NM

This post has been edited by fistandantilus3.0: Feb 23 2006, 08:36 AM

[Serbitar]

You can very well retire with about 2 mio Nuyen, when they bearn an interest of about 5%, which is quite reasonable.

But, thats still not the question at hand. No normal runner will be able to do that. Only some percent get lucky enough to do this. A much larger fraction dies or has some other unlucky fate. The rest will have to take on other jobs when to old for running (fixer, information dealer, trainer . . . )

[nick012000]

Well, it only takes 1 million to buy a permanent High Lifestyle. Presumably, the ongoing costs are defrayed by investments.

[bladepoet]

Hello all,

I think having standard prices is a bit.....limiting.

The money a runner can make depends on various factors:

1. Reputation

If they've just started out, they are not gonna be offered 50k for a job.
Read the fiction if need be, some of the sums thrown about in there are pitiful.

One thing that is however noticeable is the careful use of resources in alot of cases.

I had a group that constantly lost money on runs, as they were very stupid with how they used their belongings.

Also, if you hosed up your last 1-X jobs, your street price will fall.
You caused alot of trouble for some corp and are wanted? Consider yourself hot property and as a result, your value is lowered

Beggars can't be chosers

2. Current situation

If you can afford to cherry pick your runs, good for you. For most people however, life costs money. So sometimes you can't just insist on working for the ivy league when you need to pay bill,s have to have your car/drone/head repaired.

Furthermore, see 'reputation', as that is also a component of your current situation.

3. The task at hand

Different runs will offer different renumeration.

As a GM, think how much the Mr Johnson/Employer gain out of it.
If he can pay 250k to rough up some guy who owes hom some gambling debts, the entire in-game economy doesn't work.

Likewise, paying the group 20k to infiltrate a high-security compound to steal some tech prototype isn't feasable.
If the runners aren;t worth more, they are probably the wrong guys for the job anyway.

4. Not all runs pay

Not all runs will pay. If your characters have too much cash flying around (it can happen, if you've been uncareful), then once again, look to the novels for guidance.

Some guy the group has annoyed in the past may cause them trouble, this can cost, rather than earn you some nuyen.




The most enjoyable campaign I ever gm'ed involved the players being part of street gang.
I disallowed any large amount of money at creation time, and also limited cyberware to a painful minimum.
Sure the players moaned, they cried and they swore at me.

But after they had gotten used to the idea, it was a joy to see someone cheer about saving enough for a smartgun link or a motor bike.

It put the emphasis elsewhere than just money, creating a good story and more believable characters. Instead of creating a grown-up top-league runner, they slowly raised and developed them, in an evolutionary manner.

cheers

bladepoet

[TinkerGnome]

[neko128]

[bladepoet]

[TinkerGnome]

Ah, that had me confused. 400 bp characters are supposed to be junior league Shadowrunners. They haven't done a lot of jobs, but they've done a few. They'll rate fair money, but not big money. Gutter punks are a step or two below that.

My personal standard is to try to deliver about 8-10k per month to the runners if they do a good job (and it's not a doublecross). For online games, I tend to go with a bit more.

[neko128]

[paxx221]

Fist post, not wanting to step on any toes.

I think the guideline is adequate, also Runners should always be on the lookout for “Cake Runs” or their own snatch and Grabs. For example they happen to meet a guy who is on the wrong end of a fight with the team and he happens to work at a car repair shop and has the keys and pass codes as well as full schematics for modified secure cars. (including satellite security linkage) well it is now up to the team to execute on their own initiative, and make some cash or gear, pay off some favors they owe and such. Now it might be that they can get straight cred for this, but more then likely they will fence it for other stuff and some cred.

Then of course there is the occasional a Gang War went through your Apartment and well…everything but the shirt on your back and your car is gone, perhaps investing in a better place to live is in your future.

Runs in general should pay more then they do, but the expenses incurred should equal out to what is normally paid out. It all depends how much you want to talk about money during your games. If you want to go heavy into the Financials of Running, figure that you work and play dangerously, clubs cost money, social life costs money, and getting that equipment in quite way costs money.

Much is included in Lifestyle, but you give the guys a bone from time to time, and give them things to spend money on as well, False leads, that cost money to figure out, confiscated and stolen equipment, the occasional hacked and stolen cred, the protection money when someone is pissed at you but they do not see it profitable to actually move on you so everyone saves face.

If you give more money, make more money sinks. Also Fences and such take more then 50% of the value, something stolen should be about worth 10% of it’s value (it is used and hot to some degree). But if it is Washed and given some false ID…then the value goes up, you don’t do this, but the fixer does…so I really feel that theft in the “always tracking world” should be more costly and pay less then it seems to.

Do a search on RFID and you will find sites like http://www.spychips.com/ from there apply it to thieving in the shadows and you can imagine the attention to detail necessary to do it well and easily. Your average car owner would have and automatic owner notification when it is 50 yards from any authorized driver and moving.

But once a good chop shop gets it…it can make it have the values rated in the book, but is a runner going to do all of that?

However Runners wanting to go to a life of car thievery might be really fun…imagine all the money sinking you can have happen to them until they go back to their bread and butter operations.

In the end it is up to the GM to make the game his players enjoy, not what they say they want, but one that changes, is interesting and stays semi consistent in how the world works (good luck on doing that).

-Paxx

[kigmatzomat]

I haven't tried to analyze the rules but the concept is good. I think where some people are getting hung up is thinking this is a set of guidelines when it is really a tool to build your own guidelines.

I've run under both extremes: jobs that paid dirt and teams that held out for payoffs. There's different styles that have to be addressed. One is "The Warriors" the other is "The Usual Suspects."

Joyboy Jim is a hand-to-mouth runner, who tends to be doing some kind of job every week. They don't pay the big cash but in general they have a lower risk factor. He's hijacked a truckload of high def trid units right before The Big Game, done some bodyguard work, and once broke into a guy's house to put a head of lettuce on the guy's pillow while he was sleeping. (Jim has no idea what was up with that.) Jim gets shot at maybe once a month and then by people without a lot of skill. Of course, you have that much exposure and your odds of getting gacked by a blitzed troll go up significantly.

James Joy, on the other hand, straps on his working gear once a month. His pay is quite good but he tends to see better security systems and well trained forces. Getting shot at is to be avoided since the guns tend to be armor piercing and backed up with drones and spirits. There's more planning and the team members tend to be more specialized.

Both can be fun but getting James Joy's runs at Jim's paygrade sucks the big meat stick. Which goes back to the "boosting cars" concept. If you want to pay common criminal money, fine, have common criminal runs. Just warn people in advance to make Jim and not James. The flip side, Joyboy runs with James' pay, gets just as boring from the excessive amounts of wealth and the low risk.

[Voran]

From a metagame point, I think you'll have to make it so the players continue to feel their characters are actually profiting. And not just maintaining a status quo, humdrum, kinda existance. If runs only pay for my current gear, and keeping a roof over my head, and barely my medical costs, just so I could turn around and do it again to get shot at again, I'd probably give up and go find a wageslave job where I could use my combat skills and the like for less risk and steadier pay. I'm going to imagine a player would get frustrated if he's going to be stuck with essentially the same gear/cyber/bio/whatever from chargen after player that character for say the same real-time year.

Yeah that's also an unrealistic expectation, but its the curse of gaming systems. The mindset of the gamer, based on games, pnp or computer type, keeps you going with the continued feel of getting cooler abilities or more fancy stuff.