 Why shadowrun, when making money legitimately is so easy, (Also, a campaign idea for 5 players, with pre-built characters) |
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 May 3 2008, 05:22 PM
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#1
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 606 Joined: 14-April 08 From: Phoenix, AZ Member No.: 15,884  |
Shaking your Money-Maker
Talismongering for Fun and Profit Why run the shadows when you can make an insane amount of money as a legitimate businessman? The key is to build the group around a Talislegger - the remainder of the group will be providing security and contract services to him on a long-term basis. Another nice thing about this is, the Talislegger can provide the group with a rather nice Lifestyle discount - as long as he provides room & board, the remainder of the group only needs to chip in 10% of their normal Lifestyle costs. The first step in making massive amounts of money from Talismongering is acquiring the raw materials. Luckily, precious metals are extremely easy to acquire on the open market. To begin, we will need one unit each of raw Copper (100 ea), Silver (300 ea), Mercury (600 ea), and Gold (10,000 ea) reagents. This comes to a total price of 11,000 nuyen. Then, we must refine the reagents. This requires an Enchanting(Alchemy) + Magic (4, 1 day) Extended test. Generating 4 hits on an Enchanting + Magic test shouldn't be too difficult, especially not if we hard-max these attributes and take Artificer as our Mentor Spirit. After the reagents are refined, we must process them into radical reagents. This requires a 28-day process, ending in an Enchanting + Magic (2) Test. Note that with a Magic of 6, we can actually transfer 6 units instead of 4, meaning we can also process two additional units of metal reagents per month. Finally, we can make the orichalcum. This requires a second 28-day process, ending in an Enchanting + Magic (3) test; each net hit above 3 generates one unit of Orichalcum. Thus, clearly, our money-maker will need an exceptionally high Enchanting skill, and a high Magic attribute. If we take the Artificer Mentor Spirit, Aptitude: Enchanting and a Specialization of 'Alchemy', we can hard-max our dice pool to 17 dice. This guarantees that we always succeed in the Enchanting + Magic (2) test to refine magical reagents, since we can simply buy 4 successes on that roll. Investing in an Enchanting Shop (50,000 nuyen) or Alchemy Microlab (100,000 nuyen) at character creation provides both superior conditions (+1) and superior tools (+1), upping our dice pool to 19+ dice - meaning we may now trivially succeed in our refining test, as well, by buying 4 dice. So the only dice pool we actually need to roll is the final Enchanting + Magic (3) test to determine how many units of orichalcum (at 50,000 nuyen each) we create from our raw materials (bought at 11,000 nuyen). We are clearly going to use Edge on this test; I'm going to assume an Edge of 6. This results in a total dice pool of 25, with the "rule of 6" in effect. Statistically, we're looking at the following spread with 25 exploding dice: No units: 0.3% (weighted return: 0) One unit: 0.2% (weighted return: 100) Two units: 0.4% (weighted return: 400) Three units: 0.8% (weighted return: 1,200) Four units: 1.9% (weighted return: 3,800) Five units: 3.8% (weighted return: 9,500) Six units: 6.3% (weighted return: 18,900) Seven units: 9.0% (weighted return: 31,500) Eight units: 77.4% (weighted return: 309,600) Average orichalcum return: 375,000 Average gross return on investment: 375,000 Selling price (30% of retail): 112,500 Raw material costs: 11,000 Lifestyle costs: 14,000 Business Costs: ~7,500 Net return: ~80,000 Time spent: 60 days (only 28 days every 3rd cycle) Income: ~40,000 per month Our annual business cycle goes something like this: January: buy 6 units of raw materials, refine into 6 radical reagents February: refine 4 radical reagents into ~7 units of orichalcum March: buy 6 units of raw materials, refine into 6 radical reagents April: refine 4 radical reagents into ~7 units of orichalcum May: refine 4 radical reagents into ~7 units of orichalcum June: sell 22 units of orichalcum, go on vacation July: buy 6 units of raw materials, refine into 6 radical reagents August: refine 4 radical reagents into ~7 units of orichalcum September: buy 6 units of raw materials, refine into 6 radical reagents October: refine 4 radical reagents into ~7 units of orichalcum November: refine 4 radical reagents into ~7 units of orichalcum December: sell 22 units of orichalcum, go on vacation Retirement plan: Since we're raking in 40K per month after Lifestyle costs, we just shove that into a secure bank account, and in 3 years, we have over 1.4 million dollars - which is enough to buy a permanent High Lifestyle for all 5 people involved. Finally, here's our characters' starting builds: |
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May 3 2008, 05:22 PM
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#2
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 606 Joined: 14-April 08 From: Phoenix, AZ Member No.: 15,884 |
Tim the Enchanter, CEO "Orichalcum Out the Wazoo LLC"
Sex: M Age: 21 Height: 1.9m Weight: 74kg Character Data: [ Spoiler ] Background Tim Alejandro is a bright, friendly young man fresh out of college. He Awakened at age 13 as a Mystical Adept, and was admitted to Berkeley on a Magical Studies scholarship immediately after High School. Tim showed incredible promise in the areas of enchanting, focus design, and magical theory. Unfortunately for the rest of the Awakened world, Tim got fed up with his studies around his third semester and dropped out to start his own business, taking several of his friends and fellow students with him. Tim's business, "Orichalcum Out the Wazoo", focuses almost entirely on Orichalcum production, a talent Tim has a particular knack for. They produce, on average, approximately 0.7 kilograms of the substance per month - an impressive feat that threatens to saturate the local market. The company ships all over the world, and Tim's custom enchanting and design services are in high demand. Tim is also an accomplished sketch artist, sculptor, metalworker, fashion designer and gourmet chef, and is a talented tutor for magical and non-magical theories. His charm, good looks and well-known talent all keep him extremely busy "tutoring" impressionable young co-eds in magic theory and public speaking - the fact that they learn anything at all from him is a testament to his teaching skills and his enthusiasm. Tim typically takes the months of June and December off, when he and Alyssa focus on their connections to the local fetish and BDSM community. Both are well-known, and something of local “starlets� in the greater San Fransisco area. Of course, Tim is going to need some buddies to help him out. Tim's got the space for four friends to help him in his little start-up business. He's going to need at least 2 security people, one salesman, and an IT specialist. |
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May 3 2008, 05:23 PM
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#3
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 606 Joined: 14-April 08 From: Phoenix, AZ Member No.: 15,884 |
Bob the Angry Drunken Dwarf, CTO "Orichalcum Out the Wazoo LLC"
Sex: M Age: 22 Height: 1.2m Weight: 67kg Character Data: [ Spoiler ] Background Robert Benjamin Schellinger is an amazing technician, roboticist and hacker. He is also an insufferable know-it-all, an obnoxious, sexist prick, and a complete drunk. Still, much to the regret of everyone around him, he manages to keep Tim's business and equipment running in tip-top shape, while still finding ample free time to tinker with his hobbies. Bob writes violent, controversial video games and releases them for free on the Matrix. His last game, "Cop Killer 2: Bubba Troll's Anal Revenge" has earned him the ire and notoriety of most of the Pacific Northwest, who found the game "reprehensible and lacking in all artistic merit", particularly the main character's signature "finishing moves" and the extensive and graphic prison scenes. Bob also creates mecha. It is very, very wise not to call his creations "robots" or "anthroform drones" around him; Bob is an ardent anime fan and will do horrible things to your Commlink if you do not show his creations the respect he feels they are due. Bob is part of several local "Robot Wars" groups, and often wins prizes for ingenuity and combat ability in the local arenas. Of course, he is just as often kicked out of such groups for poor manners and sportsmanship (or for completely ignoring a given group's rules on robot safety and maximum performance specifications), but his skills are so well-renowned that it is only a matter of months before other teams begin seeking him out for "design help". |
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May 3 2008, 05:24 PM
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#4
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 606 Joined: 14-April 08 From: Phoenix, AZ Member No.: 15,884 |
Alyssa, VP Sales "Orichalcum Out the Wazoo LLC"
Sex: F Age: 19 Height: 1.8m Weight: 61kg Character Data: [ Spoiler ] Background Alyssandra von Diesse is Tim's on-again, off-again girlfriend. She's incredibly attractive and nearly impossible to resist, thanks both to the pre-natal genetic pheremonal augmentations that her parents decided to give their daughter, and her own Adept abilities. Unfortunately, she's a spoiled brat and has an almost neurotic obsession to sleep with anything that catches her eye, both of which grate on Tim's patience to no end. Due to her eerie social skills and her ability to get absolutely anything she wants from nearly anyone, male or female, Tim hired her as his salesperson. She took to the job incredibly well, although Tim has long given up trying to control what she does on her "sales trips" with some of their higher-paying customers. Unfortunately, Alyssandra sees her life as an incredible disappointment. She was an incredibly talented rhythmic gymnast as a child, and was well on her way to becoming an Olympic competitor - until it was discovered, at age 11, that she was an Awakened adept and her "powers" were deemed an unfair and unnatural advantage, barring her forever from competing. She still loves to perform, but she has never forgiven herself for her loss, and has a deep self-loathing that she takes out on herself by constantly putting herself into sexually dangerous and abusive situations. These behaviors came to a head when she was 15, and seduced a prominent local judge into a three-week long affair. When they were caught, the magical nature of her seduction was used to argue pre-meditation, and she was tried as an adult for sexual assault - serving a 1 year sentence before being released, at which time her parents disowned her and kicked her out onto the street. She has sworn an oath to never use her powers to coerce anyone to sleep with her, but uses various mental gymnastics to get around that - and anyone who approaches her is still considered "fair game" during moments of weakness. |
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May 3 2008, 05:24 PM
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#5
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 606 Joined: 14-April 08 From: Phoenix, AZ Member No.: 15,884 |
Johnny, VP Security "Orichalcum Out the Wazoo LLC"
Sex: M Age: 21 Height: 1.8m Weight: 131kg Character Data: [ Spoiler ] Background Johan Pitrsberg has been Tim and Bobby's friend since 3rd grade. While Tim was always the social one and Bobby was the genius, Johnny felt like a complete waste of meat next to the two of them. Still, they liked him, and involved him in most of their pranks and schemes (mostly to his detriment). When Tim started his business, Johnny was naturally hired as Tim's personal bodyguard and "Security Expert". Johnny loves it - it's given him a chance to indulge in his lifelong love of guns and gunfighter mystique - but he still feels indebted to Tim and a little bit like a tag-along. Johnny never understood why Tim took an interest to him; while Tim says it's because Johnny "understands magic in his gut"?, Johnny refuses to believe that he could ever be that special. Tim has been working with Tommy since they were little to "Awaken his potential", but has so far been unable to surmount the fundamental blocks caused by Johnny's lack of self-esteem. Tim was understandably horrified when Johnny came back from his 2-year stint in the CFS Army with wired reflexes and cybernetic eyes, complaining that he'd "sold half his body away" for cheap power that he could have unlocked within himself. Johnny's just tired of waiting, and willing to take short-cuts to feel "worthy" to hang out with the likes of Tim, Bob and Alyssa. In his daydreams, Johnny fancies himself as a hero out of an old western. He typically wears a long, dark-brown duster, a rickety felt fedora, and a pair of hip-holsters with his trusty Cavalier Deputy revolvers. Each revolver has been especially customized to his grip, and reinforced to use as clubbing weapons in hand-to-hand combat. Johnny enjoys affecting a western drawl, which he only drops when frightened or in intimate emotional moments. |
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May 3 2008, 05:25 PM
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#6
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 606 Joined: 14-April 08 From: Phoenix, AZ Member No.: 15,884 |
Spaz, Assistant Security Specialist ‘Orichalcum Out the Wazoo LLC’
Sex: M Age: 17 Height: 1.9m Weight: 143kg Character Data: [ Spoiler ] Background Wilm Pitrsberg is Johnny’s little brother, and has always looked up to him and followed in his footsteps. So of course, when he graduated High School, he went to work with his brother “shooting guns and blowing stuff up�. He’s a bit impulsive and distractable, but ultimately he’s a good kid. Spaz sees himself as the hero in an action sim, and is constantly mumbling a voice-over narrative to himself (or humming the imagined soundtrack). Johnny is insanely protective of Spaz, but constantly gives him shit for the amount of trouble Johnny has to bail him out of. |
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May 3 2008, 05:26 PM
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#7
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 177 Joined: 12-March 08 Member No.: 15,766 |
This is awesome.
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May 3 2008, 05:32 PM
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#8
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 606 Joined: 14-April 08 From: Phoenix, AZ Member No.: 15,884 |
QUOTE (DreadPirateKitten @ May 3 2008, 10:26 AM)  This is awesome. Thank you. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I'm considering actually creating a "roving online game" - I'd play Tim; I'd find 4 other players to play everyone else, and then have revolving "Guest GMs" for each session. Sort of like a sitcom or Friday night Josh Whedon sci-fi drama, with the same cast every episode but different writers/directors. |
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May 3 2008, 06:18 PM
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#9
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 350 Joined: 20-August 06 Member No.: 9,176 |
QUOTE (HentaiZonga @ May 3 2008, 12:32 PM) Thank you. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I'm considering actually creating a "roving online game" - I'd play Tim; I'd find 4 other players to play everyone else, and then have revolving "Guest GMs" for each session. Sort of like a sitcom or Friday night Josh Whedon sci-fi drama, with the same cast every episode but different writers/directors. *whispers* that's Joss... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) And it sounds pretty darn cool! I might be interested in getting involved in a month or two after I move. Vlad |
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May 3 2008, 06:21 PM
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#10
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 606 Joined: 14-April 08 From: Phoenix, AZ Member No.: 15,884 |
The first order of business, of course, is to figure out a better name for their company. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Did anyone notice any problems with the character builds? |
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May 3 2008, 06:32 PM
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#11
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 830 Joined: 3-April 04 From: Columbus, Ohio Member No.: 6,215 |
This is a good idea that you've clearly thought through; however, I'd dispute the title of the thread. The reason all runner groups don't just do that is simple: not everyone knows a talismonger with hard-maxed artificing DPs. Nor is every mage necessarily going to spend all their karma getting those huge DPs. And even if they did, that's not to say they'd use them. Being able to go through with a career is about a lot more than what stats you have. I went to a pretty good college for the type of degree I got, and in terms of SR, my DP would probably be pretty high, but I don't really feel a drive to base a career off it. I'm much happier doing what I do, even if I'm crappier at it. Likewise, if I was an enchanter, I still might prefer the shadows.
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May 3 2008, 07:01 PM
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#12
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Incertum est quo loco te mors expectet; Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,546 Joined: 24-October 03 From: DeeCee, U.S. Member No.: 5,760 |
Have any of your characters bought orichalcum? No? Have you ever picked any off of enemies on a run? No?
Congratulations, you just made $400k of merchandise you can't move. And now that the local Yak group knows someone is muscling in on their turf of making and selling magical radicals, they're going to send over 20 goons or so to break your knees. Oh yeah, and if you dodge them, there's the fact that everyone in the barrens knows that you keep HALF A MILLION in small, easily stolen quantities, and since you have no SIN, Lone Star doesn't especially care. I'm sure that won't come up. Oh, and while we're on it, don't think for a second that just because you don't have a SIN that the IRS doesn't want their cut, and they have the UCAS army to draw on. And since the Magician's Guild has been making kind contributions to politicians for quite some time, they likely aren't interested in just claiming undeclared income. In fact, ATFT (Alcohol, Tobacoo, Firearms & Thaumatology) will likely decide it would be a great idea to bust in your door, take all your stuff, take YOU, then toss you in the slammer because it's easier than having a trial and, frankly, you're clearly guilty as sin already. Yes, the SR3 rules make ABSOLUTELY no sense, however if we accept them, how do you think the price got so high if just about anyone can do it? Why is it that everyone and his brother isn't doing anything but producing gold radicals (which actually have a higher profit margin than orichalcum?) Because there are other factors, including market factors, that make it a poor investment. |
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May 3 2008, 10:51 PM
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#13
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 606 Joined: 14-April 08 From: Phoenix, AZ Member No.: 15,884 |
QUOTE (nezumi @ May 3 2008, 12:01 PM) Have any of your characters bought orichalcum? No? Have you ever picked any off of enemies on a run? No? Congratulations, you just made $400k of merchandise you can't move. And now that the local Yak group knows someone is muscling in on their turf of making and selling magical radicals, they're going to send over 20 goons or so to break your knees. Oh yeah, and if you dodge them, there's the fact that everyone in the barrens knows that you keep HALF A MILLION in small, easily stolen quantities, and since you have no SIN, Lone Star doesn't especially care. I'm sure that won't come up. Oh, and while we're on it, don't think for a second that just because you don't have a SIN that the IRS doesn't want their cut, and they have the UCAS army to draw on. And since the Magician's Guild has been making kind contributions to politicians for quite some time, they likely aren't interested in just claiming undeclared income. In fact, ATFT (Alcohol, Tobacoo, Firearms & Thaumatology) will likely decide it would be a great idea to bust in your door, take all your stuff, take YOU, then toss you in the slammer because it's easier than having a trial and, frankly, you're clearly guilty as sin already. Actually, all of them took the SINner Quality, and a big part of the set-up for this group of characters is that they're all doing this 'by the books'. I'm perfectly willing to hand off 50% of their $40,000/month profits to the IRS, if that means I get to call Lone Star whenever the Yaks show up (or hell, just pay the Yaks a cut too - there's plenty to go around). That's a central tenet to these guys - they could have been Shadowrunners, with their skills, but they aren't - they're productive members of society, without being wholly-bought tools of the corps, and they get to have fun and pursue their passions on the side to boot. QUOTE Yes, the SR3 rules make ABSOLUTELY no sense, however if we accept them, how do you think the price got so high if just about anyone can do it? Why is it that everyone and his brother isn't doing anything but producing gold radicals (which actually have a higher profit margin than orichalcum?) Because there are other factors, including market factors, that make it a poor investment. SR4, actually. And the profit margins are higher on orichalcum than on gold - remember, if you do your pools right you can produce *eight* pieces of orichalcum from *one* piece each of gold, silver, copper and mercury. That's 50,000 x 8 = 400,000 from 11,000 instead of 40,000 from 10,000. Another important thing about this group, is that they're clearly capable of producing interesting stories, set in the canonical SR4 universe, without ever breaking the law. (Well, Spaz maybe...) I just thought it was a neat idea, and the "why don't all shadowrunners do this?" was sort-of IC, from Tim's voice. Does that make sense? |
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May 3 2008, 11:16 PM
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#14
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 606 Joined: 14-April 08 From: Phoenix, AZ Member No.: 15,884 |
Update: gave Tim one spell, by lowering his Contact from 9 to 6 BP. He now knows the 'Fashion' spell, which seems to fit him perfectly.
Basically, here's my run-down of the characters, their personalities, who would play them in an RPG, and who would play them if this were a movie/TV show. Tim: Ashton Kutcher. Tim should be played by a Real Roleplayer; he's clearly the "heart and soul" of the group. Tim is always looking for things to do, ways to not be bored, ways to show off his creativity and his imagination. He's genuinely funny, compassionate, and outgoing. He's also a little bit sheltered - he's always been good-looking, friendly, and lucky, so a lot of nasty things that typically happen to people in their lives haven't happened to him. He'll always help out when he realizes how bad things are, but he's quite often oblivious to how hard other people have it, if he isn't explicitly pointed it out. Alyssa: Probably played by Jessica Alba. Alyssa needs to be handed to either a Real Roleplayer, or a Powergamer. Alyssa is a very obviously damaged person. She has no concepts of interpersonal interactions that aren't power dynamics, even though she desperately wants to find some form of love and acceptance that doesn't involve manipulating people or being an object. She's sweet, and sensitive, but also manipulative and dangerous. She doesn't want to be a bad person, but she honestly doesn't have any clue how else to be. Bob: Maybe Peter Dinklage. Bob should be handed to the group's Loony, who can play him to the hilt. Bob has a vocabulary that can peel paint. Bob is vicious, rude, condescending, and dismissive to everyone. Bob is also fiercely loyal, and will risk his life to save his friends - although they sometimes suspect that's just to give him an excuse to yell at them for it. Johnny: Nathan Fillion, hands down. Nathan needs to be handed to a Real Man - he's three parts Clint Eastwood and two parts John Wayne. Johnny's got a sensitive streak a mile wide, but he's too busy covering it up by over-compensating for his poor self esteem. Johnny desperately wants to see himself as worthy of the respect and love that his friends show him. Spaz: Seth Green. Spaz is, obviously, a munchkin parody. Handing him to a real munchkin would work, too. If someone isn't saying "Spaz, shut it!" every 5 minutes, You're Doing It Wrong. |
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May 3 2008, 11:24 PM
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#15
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 656 Joined: 18-January 06 From: Leesburg, Virginia, USA Member No.: 8,177 |
If I may suggest one small refinement? Do not waste time making your radicals. It takes you two months to make 2 batches of radicals. You can produce 7 (or maybe only 6) units of Orichalcum in a month. So you net ~300,00 nuyen in 5 months (before lifestyle and other monthly costs).
Instead, buy your radicals at list. (With that negotiator, getting them reliably at list is no problem). 44,000 nuyen a month in costs. Moves your gross up to about 340,00 nuyen for 5 months. (After all, you are in business. Why waste time on work that doesn't make money.) Yours, Joel M. Halpern PS: Selling at 30% of list price, which is what you are doing, is the only thing that keeps the entire set of Refining costs from being absurdly profitable. It would seem that one of two things ought to be the case: Either there is not enough demand to justify the prices quoted Or there is enough demand that an established supplier can get more than 30% of list for his goods. After all 30% is what fences pay for stolen goods. |
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May 3 2008, 11:26 PM
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#16
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 606 Joined: 14-April 08 From: Phoenix, AZ Member No.: 15,884 |
QUOTE (JoelHalpern @ May 3 2008, 04:24 PM) If I may suggest one small refinement? Do not waste time making your radicals. It takes you two months to make 2 batches of radicals. You can produce 7 (or maybe only 6) units of Orichalcum in a month. So you net ~300,00 nuyen in 5 months (before lifestyle and other monthly costs). Instead, buy your radicals at list. (With that negotiator, getting them reliably at list is no problem). 44,000 nuyen a month in costs. Moves your gross up to about 340,00 nuyen for 5 months. (After all, you are in business. Why waste time on work that doesn't make money.) Yours, Joel M. Halpern PS: Selling at 30% of list price, which is what you are doing, is the only thing that keeps the entire set of Refining costs from being absurdly profitable. It would seem that one of two things ought to be the case: Either there is not enough demand to justify the prices quoted Or there is enough demand that an established supplier can get more than 30% of list for his goods. After all 30% is what fences pay for stolen goods. This is very true. I went with the 30% because I figure they'll get you coming or going - either you get 30% for it because it's stolen, or you get 50% for it legitimately, and then have to pay 40% of your take to the IRS, leaving a net 30% for you. |
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May 3 2008, 11:57 PM
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#17
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,444 Joined: 18-April 08 Member No.: 15,912 |
I'm just wondering why you couldn't hire a fence/talismoner to sell the stuff for you to different corps and shops around town, give him 10% of everything he moves and that leaves 90% for you, - the 40% the IRs wants still gives you 54% after taxes?
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May 4 2008, 12:03 AM
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#18
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 606 Joined: 14-April 08 From: Phoenix, AZ Member No.: 15,884 |
QUOTE (JoelHalpern @ May 3 2008, 04:24 PM) If I may suggest one small refinement? Do not waste time making your radicals. It takes you two months to make 2 batches of radicals. You can produce 7 (or maybe only 6) units of Orichalcum in a month. So you net ~300,00 nuyen in 5 months (before lifestyle and other monthly costs). Instead, buy your radicals at list. (With that negotiator, getting them reliably at list is no problem). 44,000 nuyen a month in costs. Moves your gross up to about 340,00 nuyen for 5 months. (After all, you are in business. Why waste time on work that doesn't make money.) Actually, I seriously considered that. Here's the thing, though - buying the radicals only makes him an extra $7,000 per month, and given how the dice rolls work - the radical production *always works* vs. the orichalcum production's variable output - I get the idea that orichalcum production is a much more stressful month's worth of work, and something that he'd want to be able to take a "break" from every other month. Remember, he has to tend the mixture every 8 hours for 28 days - so he's doing other things doing this time, but can't really leave the house for very long. So he's going to want times when what he's doing is less distracting, without cutting too far into his profit margin. QUOTE (Mordinvan @ May 3 2008, 04:57 PM) I'm just wondering why you couldn't hire a fence/talismoner to sell the stuff for you to different corps and shops around town, give him 10% of everything he moves and that leaves 90% for you, - the 40% the IRs wants still gives you 54% after taxes? Well, maybe he could - but he really hasn't thought that far ahead, yet. Right now, his Talismonger contact offers him 50%, leaving him 30% after taxes - and that's just fine for him. Maybe he can arrange a better deal when he's more established, but he's only been in business for 2 months, now. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Also, remember that those corps and shops need to make their profit, which means they can't afford to be buying at full price, either. |
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May 4 2008, 04:33 AM
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#19
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 606 Joined: 14-April 08 From: Phoenix, AZ Member No.: 15,884 |
And now, some character-defining quotes:
Tim "Dude, not on." "Trust me, it'll be great!" "Okay. That was sixteen shades of awesome." "Okay. That was twelve shades of decidedly non-awesome." "Are you keeping score, because I think I'm winning." "Dude, check this out." "Hey. I couldn't help but overhear that, and I just wanted you to know that this is my friend you're talking to. And you're a complete dick. Go away until you've learned some manners. Hell, here's 500 nuyen so you can buy the damn skillsoft." "Not now, Spaz." "...So, the cool thing about that is, it's all directly responsive to the lunar cycle. Maybe it's some sort of hormonal thing, or maybe it's astrological, or maybe there's some sort of memetic reinforcement going on. Dude! Which reminds me, memetic reinforcement is all kinds of weird. Check this out: ..." "Give him 15 minutes, and it'll make toast, too." "That is insanely awesome, Bob. Will I lose a finger if I push this button over here?" "Spaz, what did you just do?" "Hey Johnny, how goes?" "Sweet. Now can you do it in stereo?" "Man, that was amazing. Do it again!" "Shut it, Spaz." Alyssa "No, I haven't. You wanna be the first?" "Hey, cutie." "Not in a million years, Spaz." "Cheer up, hon, it's gotta get better than this." "Take me somewhere expensive." "Hey, are you okay?" "Spaz, sweetie, shut it." Bob "**** you, you ****-****ing **** of a ****, I swear I oughta stick my **** right up your **** *** and **** your mother right in the **** so she doesn't **** out any more of you ****ers." "Pass me the keg." "BOOM! HEADSHOT, ************!!!" "Here's a nickel, son, go buy yourself a new asshole. This one's all wore out." "Hey Mikey, pink here wants to play." "Spaz! Put your head back up your *** so I don't have to hear the **** coming out of your ***** you ****ing *** of a - oh, **** it, Johnny, beat him for me." Johnny "Son, you just picked the wrong place to break into." "Ma'am, it would be my distinct pleasure to help you." "Son, you can't let them walk all over you like that." "Okay, look. This is my little brother. You got a problem with him, you got a problem with me. You got a problem with me, you bring it to me, and I will deal with it. But you will NOT mouth off to him like that. You ain't family; you ain't earned the motherfucking right." "Spaz! Shut it!" "Shut it, Spaz." "Spaz. Shut it. Now." "SPAZ. OFFICE. NOW." Spaz "Guys! Guys! GUYS!!! Check this out!" "Aww yeah! Who's your daddy!?" "OWNED, BITCH!" "Run run run motherfucking RUN guys run run now fuse is lit run run ohhh fuck oh holy jesus oh sh-"*WHOOOOOMPF!!!* "Your face is the problem." "Hey, Lys, check this out! Sexy, eh?" "Tim, loan me 50 bucks!" "Yessir." |
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May 4 2008, 04:42 AM
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#20
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,159 Joined: 12-April 07 From: Ork Underground Member No.: 11,440 |
I actually have done this in SR3, I played an Enchanter Adapt, another a mage, and another a shaman. But we made Meteoric Iron/Steel radicals. Enable us to have built a secure place of residence and operations.
And yes the Enchanter Adept used orichalum, many times, in fact too much in his katana weapon focus, side effect of so much orichalum it was empowered with a Spirit of Extreme Violence that had a particular hatred for insect spirits. WMS |
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May 4 2008, 07:45 AM
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#21
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 606 Joined: 14-April 08 From: Phoenix, AZ Member No.: 15,884 |
QUOTE (WearzManySkins @ May 3 2008, 09:42 PM) I actually have done this in SR3, I played an Enchanter Adapt, another a mage, and another a shaman. But we made Meteoric Iron/Steel radicals. Enable us to have built a secure place of residence and operations. And yes the Enchanter Adept used orichalum, many times, in fact too much in his katana weapon focus, side effect of so much orichalum it was empowered with a Spirit of Extreme Violence that had a particular hatred for insect spirits. WMS g'heh. Meteoric Iron is now an Exotic Radical, and definitely something cool to put into unique Weapon Foci. Looking over Tim's time constraints, it's looking like he can design and construct one Force 6 Weapon Focus per month, in addition to his Orichalcum refining. What's a good rate to charge for completely customized Weapon Foci, each designed and hand-crafted by a locally reknowned Master of the craft? |
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May 4 2008, 08:14 AM
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#22
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 353 Joined: 2-February 08 Member No.: 15,618 |
Personally I think this entire concept is awesome.
However I'll just chime in with a quick suggestion for GM's who are groaning and face-palming at this: If players are abusing the refining rules, just cap hits on the Orichalcum production at 4, seeing as four units of material go in, so no more than four go out. Essentially the test is to determine how many units the character loses through inneficiencies in their refining process. This keeps the profit returns for a decent enchanter perfectly reasonable, without the whole thing being game breaking. On the other hand the idea of a Shadowrun life comedy about a group of Orichalcum refiners sounds awesome. For ideas on how to actually inject some drama and adventure (which could make use of many of the ideas that Nezumi listed) just see Layer Cake. |
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May 4 2008, 08:26 AM
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#23
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 606 Joined: 14-April 08 From: Phoenix, AZ Member No.: 15,884 |
QUOTE (Dr Funfrock @ May 4 2008, 01:14 AM) Personally I think this entire concept is awesome. However I'll just chime in with a quick suggestion for GM's who are groaning and face-palming at this: If players are abusing the refining rules, just cap hits on the Orichalcum production at 4, seeing as four units of material go in, so no more than four go out. Essentially the test is to determine how many units the character loses through inneficiencies in their refining process. This keeps the profit returns for a decent enchanter perfectly reasonable, without the whole thing being game breaking. On the other hand the idea of a Shadowrun life comedy about a group of Orichalcum refiners sounds awesome. For ideas on how to actually inject some drama and adventure (which could make use of many of the ideas that Nezumi listed) just see Layer Cake. *nod* Definitely. I mean, c'mon. It's a buddy movie. Hijinks will ensue. Besides, did you look at the characters? Bob, the Angry Drunken Dwarf? Tim the Enchanter? Spaz, whose dikoted knock-off Katana is named "Ally Spirit"? |
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May 4 2008, 10:37 AM
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#24
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Incertum est quo loco te mors expectet; Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,546 Joined: 24-October 03 From: DeeCee, U.S. Member No.: 5,760 |
Hmm... As a GM, in general, my take is that you shouldn't be able to easily make more in a month than a mage doing more strenuous activities like serving on a combat team, making huge wards for companies, doing magical research, etc. makes in a month, otherwise every mage would be an absolute moron not to become an enchanter, and the price would then stabilize. Hmm... It also occurs to me that in Shadowrun almost all mages born overseas are going to exported somewhere else where they can do 'real' work, resulting in a much higher percentage of awakened characters in places like Seattle without changing the 1% overall statistic (otherwise, why aren't all foci made in China, just like everything else is? Can you imagine how much a little Mouse Shaman living outside of Canton would make doing this for just one year?)
However, those precise difficulties are what would make an enchanting-dedicated 'game' interesting, methinks. I can imagine the party reacting to a week of first the local gang busts in, makes a lot of noise about how great protection they're offering, how hot an operation is, they'll need more cash for better gear to protect this place and to put spies in other gangs and hey, you want a BTL? Then the Yaks break in, chat about how this is their protected industry, but offer to let you in for a low, low entry fee of $1M, which of course covers things like insurance, getting you appropriate contacts, fees and tariffs on exporting, etc. Then Renraku goons bust in, break some of your gear and offer to buy you out of the business for a measly $100k Then the IRS busts in, yelling about how you failed to fill out form TR-507.1D - Manufacturing and Distribution of Overpriced Magical Artifacts and it's supporting documentation, about how one of your crew didn't do his taxes right last year, about how you need to pay the 40% tax rate to get full government protection for your business, and for the purpose of selling overseas and so on. Then the ATFT busts in, boxes up all your stuff and leaves promising they'll 'call you' but never do, because they're all idiots. Finally your fixer calls telling you he's taking three weeks off to go to Tahiti because his work is too stressful, but don't worry, he'll set you up nicely when he gets back. Meanwhile Tim is spending the whole time in the back room, patiently stirring his magical pot. |
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May 4 2008, 10:45 AM
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#25
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 606 Joined: 14-April 08 From: Phoenix, AZ Member No.: 15,884 |
QUOTE (nezumi @ May 4 2008, 03:37 AM) Hmm... As a GM, in general, my take is that you shouldn't be able to easily make more in a month than a mage doing more strenuous activities like serving on a combat team, making huge wards for companies, doing magical research, etc. makes in a month, otherwise every mage would be an absolute moron not to become an enchanter, and the price would then stabilize. Hmm... It also occurs to me that in Shadowrun almost all mages born overseas are going to exported somewhere else where they can do 'real' work, resulting in a much higher percentage of awakened characters in places like Seattle without changing the 1% overall statistic (otherwise, why aren't all foci made in China, just like everything else is? Can you imagine how much a little Mouse Shaman living outside of Canton would make doing this for just one year?) However, those precise difficulties are what would make an enchanting-dedicated 'game' interesting, methinks. I can imagine the party reacting to a week of first the local gang busts in, makes a lot of noise about how great protection they're offering, how hot an operation is, they'll need more cash for better gear to protect this place and to put spies in other gangs and hey, you want a BTL? Then the Yaks break in, chat about how this is their protected industry, but offer to let you in for a low, low entry fee of $1M, which of course covers things like insurance, getting you appropriate contacts, fees and tariffs on exporting, etc. Then Renraku goons bust in, break some of your gear and offer to buy you out of the business for a measly $100k Then the IRS busts in, yelling about how you failed to fill out form TR-507.1D - Manufacturing and Distribution of Overpriced Magical Artifacts and it's supporting documentation, about how one of your crew didn't do his taxes right last year, about how you need to pay the 40% tax rate to get full government protection for your business, and for the purpose of selling overseas and so on. Then the ATFT busts in, boxes up all your stuff and leaves promising they'll 'call you' but never do, because they're all idiots. Finally your fixer calls telling you he's taking three weeks off to go to Tahiti because his work is too stressful, but don't worry, he'll set you up nicely when he gets back. Meanwhile Tim is spending the whole time in the back room, patiently stirring his magical pot. That's precisely the game I want to run. Also with a fair bit of "Hello. In this suitcase is the shattered remains of my great-grandfather's sword. He has told me that his spirit cannot rest until it is reforged. I am told you can do this?" |
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