Tricks for the Criminals in training., post them here. |
Tricks for the Criminals in training., post them here. |
Nov 28 2005, 06:32 PM
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#1
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Creating a god with his own hands Group: Members Posts: 1,405 Joined: 30-September 02 From: 0:0:0:0:0:0:0:1 Member No.: 3,364 |
reading keypad combos with thermal imaging
this is potentially game-breaking, dwarves and trolls can do this automatically. got any others? post 'em if you've got em... if you haven't. study up. :D |
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Nov 28 2005, 07:21 PM
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#2
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,219 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lofwyr's stomach. Member No.: 1,320 |
Ah, but if every employee has a different code to enter, and more than one has entered in the last 10 minutes, this can foul your attempt.
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Nov 28 2005, 07:22 PM
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#3
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,174 Joined: 13-May 04 From: UCAS Member No.: 6,327 |
If that's the case, one easy way to lessen the effect is to make the keypads from material that dissipates heat faster and also for added measure, have an air conditioner duct aimed at the keypad area, and also maybe having small cooling tubes that run up into the keypad areas also. If you can dissipate the heat faster, you can hopefully cut down the time the heat residue will remain on the pads.
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Nov 28 2005, 07:24 PM
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#4
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 565 Joined: 7-January 04 Member No.: 5,965 |
if it looks like an easy way past, then it works on rating 1 keypads. anything better will start to prepare for that trick.
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Nov 28 2005, 07:29 PM
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#5
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,219 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lofwyr's stomach. Member No.: 1,320 |
One thing that works on many facilities if to forge some reason to be there legitimately to case the place. While there, sneak off to do things like put tape over the bolt of a fire escape.
Oh, speaking of fire, nothing makes getting in undetected easier than a mass of panicked people Leaving. |
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Nov 28 2005, 07:31 PM
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#6
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Target Group: Members Posts: 48 Joined: 6-October 05 Member No.: 7,818 |
For natural thermographic, I'd treat it as a perception test with a high threshold (maybe 3) or a high TN (SR3, to result in few net successes) to get the sequence right--the idea being that spotting dissipating thermal signatures with natural IR is like trying to distinguish between half a dozen socks which are all very similar shades of navy/blue/black.
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Nov 28 2005, 07:52 PM
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#7
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 511 Joined: 24-March 05 From: On a ledge between Heaven and Hell Member No.: 7,226 |
This is no more game breaking than having someone with cyber-eyes zoom in as someone is punching in the code.
Higher security keypads might use touch screen and randomly rearrange the numbers. Also the characters could have problems with good typists. Just how much would the heat sig. fade from one button press to the next if they were all put in at over 60 wpm, or 5 numbers per second. |
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Nov 28 2005, 07:52 PM
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#8
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
Another way to defeat that is key pad keys internally heated to approximately 34ºC. The difference between touched and non-touched will become nill very quickly. To really screw with thermographic detection the temps presets could be randomnly raised/lowered slightly for each key over time.
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Nov 28 2005, 11:08 PM
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#9
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 668 Joined: 15-February 05 From: Ontario, Canada Member No.: 7,086 |
Well over 5 numbers per second.. 60 wpm.. words being, I think around 5 characters.. so it's more like 30 numbers per second. Personally, I like the internal heating. Virtually no difference in temperature from touch, and people can still punch it in fast, as opposed to having to think about which it is. |
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Nov 29 2005, 01:33 AM
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#10
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,086 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 364 |
Been done. 20 years ago. In the pilot episode to Max Headroom.
Wouldn't even have to be touch screen. Just clear plastic buttons with a LCD digit display underneath. You can even polarize the plastic so that the numbers are only visible from a narrow field of view.
In fact, that type of keypad exists on the market today. |
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Nov 29 2005, 02:45 AM
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#11
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 143 Joined: 28-August 05 Member No.: 7,631 |
Um.... 60 words per minute, 60 seconds per minute, that means one word per second. If the average word is five letters, then that's 5 letters per second. As for using thermographic to beat keypads... well, it might give them the buttons pushed, but it wouldn't reveal what order they were pushed in. So it'd only be moderately helpful in getting someone past a keypad. (Now, if the numbers that had been pushed on the keypad were also the numbers found in the owner's birthday or something, then it'd be pretty easy to guess. But without some clue like that, it'd take a lot of tries to find the right sequence.) |
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Nov 29 2005, 02:56 AM
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#12
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 527 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,118 |
this post is not here.
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Nov 29 2005, 02:57 AM
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#13
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
depends on how awesome your thermo-see-eye-things are. if they're sensitive enough to pick up the heat soaked up by a button that someone pressed for less than a second, it's probably sensitive enough to pick up the temperature difference between buttons that were pressed recently and buttons that were pressed less recently. the coolest recently-touched key will be the first number in the sequence, the next-coolest will be the second, etcetera.
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Nov 29 2005, 03:32 AM
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#14
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 903 Joined: 7-February 03 Member No.: 4,025 |
Just hit the keys with a pen or something.
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Nov 29 2005, 06:03 AM
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#15
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Target Group: Members Posts: 70 Joined: 8-November 05 From: Kwaj, RMI Member No.: 7,935 |
And what RunnerPaul described are used at secure installations with the addition of an RFID badge. I'd assume that the higher end maglocks are this. |
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Nov 29 2005, 06:13 AM
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#16
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 504 Joined: 8-November 05 From: North Vancouver, BC Member No.: 7,936 |
or just crack in and have the doors open for you, with all the cameras looped
speaking of a good trick my group often does: Get the hacker to go into the system and hack the cameras. -If the cameras go to a control room with normal guards watching screen (AA and lower corps on a budget would have this) have the camera feed to those screens loop, while the feed to you and your teams AR have the real feed, allowing you to see security personell etc. -If there is a spider in the control of the security, either plant a loop into him ( a nice escher loop works fine), or if not using loop program rules (mostly since sr4 doesn't have real rules for them), have a very high stealth program, and hack into each camera individually as you go to not alert the spider. This way you get the real feed of the cameras feeding your AR overlay, while those watching are none the wiser to you. But make sure the hacker is good, or else it can screw up pretty fast. To initially get in, or if you want to use another approach, get a mage to cast physical mask on one char, while the rest of the team going in uses improved invisibility. Get the masked character to resemble a member of the security team, who was "delayed" for his shift, and on the way in, have him get sick and go to a washroom on the first floor,causing a distraction. Then the rest of the insertion party does its job, and gets out, while the mage (hopefully recovered from the drain from casting all those spells) goes in invisibily, and casts invisibility on both the "guard" and himself again, and have them leave, getting into the getaway vehicle with the rest of the team. Also, a hint for any team, is to have a maglock key for sure, and a high level autopicker just incase. |
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Nov 29 2005, 03:25 PM
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#17
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 668 Joined: 15-February 05 From: Ontario, Canada Member No.: 7,086 |
Ack.. where have my math skills gone? I must be getting wires crossed.. |
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Nov 29 2005, 03:38 PM
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#18
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Freelance Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,324 Joined: 30-September 04 From: Texas Member No.: 6,714 |
Heehee. I just noticed that 60 wpm was listed as a "good typist." Heehee.
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Nov 29 2005, 04:17 PM
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#19
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Incertum est quo loco te mors expectet; Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,546 Joined: 24-October 03 From: DeeCee, U.S. Member No.: 5,760 |
I would have to question the validity of this technique, really. From what I recall, plastic (which is what most buttons are made of) is a better insulator than conductor, which means a button press of less than a second is unlikely to leave much residual heat for any substantial amount of time. Plus the combinations of buttons are still problematic (the heat difference between a button pushed at 0 second and the two pressed together at .5 second will be minimal and more effected by drafts and ambient temperature, how hard they were pressed, etc. than anything) so on and so forth.
For this to work, I'd guess you'd have to be standing pretty much right behind the guy to pick it up almost as soon as he left, and even then you'd still have to take a few tries to figure out the order (which is more difficult when you can push two or more buttons simultaneously). Keypads that require more strength to push the buttons and that are inset more into the door will be slightly more vulnerable. Truthfully, you might as well just dust the pad and check for prints at that point anyway. No suspicious equipment, just a bag of talc. |
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Nov 29 2005, 11:13 PM
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#20
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 488 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Austin, TX Member No.: 90 |
Found this little trick by accident, and don't know if it will work under all circumstances.
But while replacing some of the long flourecent light tubes at work one that I was holding brushed up against the antena of the walkie talkie radio on my hip and the bulb light up! Freaked me out for a second! But playing around I found that if you hold the antenna anywhere against the tube and hit the transmit button the radio signal caused it to light up! I figure if the power ever goes out and without a flashlight, in a pinch you can just take a flourecent tube out the celing and improvise some light with your comm radio. |
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Nov 30 2005, 12:11 AM
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#21
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Target Group: Members Posts: 61 Joined: 17-November 05 Member No.: 7,977 |
I can't disprove it, but I have a feeling that this didn't happen. Otherwise you could power all the lights in a Wal-mart by turning all the radios on. EDIT* and now that I think about it, if you had to hold the radio to the bulb and hit the transmit button, who ws holding down the transmit button when it brushed the radio on your hip? |
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Nov 30 2005, 12:43 AM
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#22
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,066 Joined: 5-February 03 Member No.: 4,017 |
Flourescent lights can be powered by static electricity. They can be powered by quite a large variety of current. The range has to be very short for the kinds of low power that would be found in a typical transmitting radio antenna. A radio that can't transmit would be unable to provide any power for this exercise, so all those radio recievers at WalMart would be useless.
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Nov 30 2005, 12:53 AM
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#23
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
Also, a handheld walkie talkie produces enough energy in the form of electromagnetic radiotion to detonate some less stable explosives.
This is something to remember when the runners are haphazardly carrying dynamite and also have radios. |
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Nov 30 2005, 01:27 AM
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#24
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Target Group: Members Posts: 61 Joined: 17-November 05 Member No.: 7,977 |
A *house* can be powered by static electricity. The problem is generating enough static electricity to be noticeable. I don't think a flicker of static is going to light up a flourescent bulb, seeing as how there's no current flowing THROUGH the bulb. It's just not how the bulb works; that's why there's metal connectors on both ends, not just one. Even bulbs that are powered by a friggin' potato have to have 2 connectors. And that's a POTATO.
As far as I know, there's only one kind of current that can power a flourescent bulb and that's a 110 flowing from the transformer.
I don't think range is the deciding factor here. If there's enough electricity in a radio to power a lamp via contact, why doesn't it shock you when you touch it?
The speakers would certainly qualify as "transmitters" which DO have small traces of electricity. However, you can't power a god damned light bulb by playing the radio at it. YOU CAN'T POWER A LIGHT BULT WITH A WALKIE-TALKIE- WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE? |
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Nov 30 2005, 02:29 AM
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#25
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,066 Joined: 5-February 03 Member No.: 4,017 |
Read a moment and learn for once. Any charge that is sufficient to ionize the gas will cause a flourescent bulb to light. It also takes very little compared to the horribly inefficient resistor bulbs you are familiar with. Back around 1900, Tesla used to show off the joys of alternating current by holding a flourescent bulb in one hand and touching the outside of an AC generator with the other. The bulb would light and amaze the audiences. The current passing through him was truly trivial, and if he had held the actual output lines of the generator, might have needed medical attention. |
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