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[ShadowDragon]

I'm going to put this on my campaign website to help out my players, but I wanted to get some feedback from you guys first. If you have any comments or things to add, please reply :)

1. Always do your legwork. Know who your Johnson is and know who your target is. Do recon in the astral, the matrix, and the physical.

2. Never go into danger without an escape plan. Don’t take unnecessary risks. Don’t get cocky just because you haven’t died yet.

3. The weakest link in any security system is always the metahuman element. Build your plans around exploiting that link.

4. Paranoia will keep you alive. Always check and double check for RFIDs. Use a quality commlink full of necessary programs even if you’re not a hacker. Only trust yourself, your team, and your mother. Expect your Johnson to betray you, and expect contacts to sell you out to Star. Be extra careful not to leave a data trail or leave evidence at a crime.

5. Make an effort to build trust and camaraderie in your team. Not only do they help you make more nuyen, they’ll save your life.

6. Be an expert in one field and contribute your expertise to the team. Be proactive with your contribution and don’t wait to be asked. Everyone should be the leader of the team in their field.

7. Be well rounded. You don’t want to be a liability in combat or negotiations, and the odd skill can come in handy when no one in your team is an expert in that field, or the expert is unable to help.

8. Don’t be afraid to look outside the team for help. If your team is missing a skill set needed for a mission, hire another runner to fill the gap. You can even hire entire groups of runners for distractions.

9. Network with everyone you can. You never know when a new contact can come in handy. The face isn’t the only person who should do this.

10. Enter negotiations with a game plan. Legwork should start before the mission. With enough legwork, sometimes you can even know what the mission is before the Johnson tells you; exploit this to negotiate for more nuyen. Some factors that can increase payment:
- Level of danger (Danger to yourself, your reputation, and your possessions)
- Time constraints (How long do you need to work and how quickly does it need to be done?)
- Team experience and reputation (Have you done work for this Johnson in the past? What does your team have to offer that other runners don’t?)
- Amount of legwork needed (Paying contacts and bribing people can be expensive)
- Stealth requirements (Leaving no trace, no or limited killing)
- Assets needed (IE drones, explosives, bullets, drugs, and contacts)

11. Remember that you’re a professional, and act like it. Don’t be an ass to the Johnson, keep your cool at all times, and protect your reputation at almost any cost. Survival should be the only thing that takes priority over professionalism.

12. If you’re making plenty of nuyen from the Johnson, don’t squeeze out more by looting the ganger’s Streetline Special and Meta Link commlink. Your contacts don't want to waste their time with used junk. But also don’t overlook expensive paydata and gear that can substantially increase your income.

13. If you’re not being paid to kill someone, you’re usually better off not doing it if you can avoid it. You never know when a death can spur on a vendetta from a loved one, and you never know if that ganger is the runaway daughter of a megacorp exec. At the same time, be careful not to leave crucial witnesses.

[OSUMacbeth]

I'll add one. Don't get cocky just because you're "king of the barrens." Don't think that because gangers run in fear of you that you can toss your weight around wherever. No matter how good your team is, someone out there has a bigger gun. Even the Star outnumbers you two-hundred to one, and most any military team with a little support will likely make mincemeat of you.

Take a lesson from my friend (who was on painkillers at the time.) You cannot walk into a public establishment in broad daylight while surrounded by hackers and attempt to kidnap someone by shoving your TMP in their face and telling them to come with you or die. :) That character died in a massive shootout as the star surrounded his gang's house, then killed 16 of the 21 gangers inside, including the character.

Another good one: The best way to win a shootout is not to be there.
OSUMacbeth

[Thane36425]

I'll add one too. Safehouses. Each team member could have one or they could chip in to split the costs. Have it some place out of the way and unobstrusive. Make the payment trail as hard as possible to to link back to you or any of the other runners. If the smelly stuff hits the fan, you've got a place to run to and (hopefully) hide for a while. As you move up in the shadows, you could even set up retreats farther afield from your usual running grounds liek in CalFree or CAS if you mostly run in Seattle.

[ShadowDragon8685]

Make friends in the Barrens. At least avoid making enemies. The Star, the Corps, will not go into the Barrens to get you, unless you REALLY pissed them off. By which I mean, "costs in the millions of :nuyen: "

[Garrowolf]

I have a question for you. How do you reinforce these rules? I mean what kind of consequences are you actually going to use on them if they don't.

I am sure we all have run into the problem that we know that the plan they have sucks and they are acting like idiots. You don't want to kill them out right because the dead don't learn and it will just piss them off. They want to be the bad ass heroes or at least the focus of the story but they do things that you think are dumb. If you sit there and berate them then they get pissy and leave. You would be metagaming at most points to have an NPC do it too much.

So how do you reinforce common sense? I find that players don't learn what they need to survive in the setting. They learn what they can get away with a certain GM. If they have to learn too much they leave.

People always tell me that they wouldn't do this or that in their games but then I watch them get walked all over by their players. This happened to me several times as well. I had one guy who had no attention span and wanted a new system after each adventure. I felt like a video game machine.

We have some idea of what we want as GMs but then they have some notion of the setting that they believe is the way and the truth because of some novel they read. You try to run what makes sense to you and they tell you no, no, no, no! because it isn't like some stupid movie with a similar plot or some other GM's game where they built their characters around that GM letting them get away with anything.

So how do we enforce common sense (the rarest sense)!?!?!

[cetiah]

[ShadowDragon8685]

Oooooh. An "Identities and Heat" system sounds really, REALLY good. I mean, it's something we've been tinkering with forever, as a roleplayed thing - no reason not to make it a mechanic, so players know exactly how much heat any given identity has on it.....

I may start to tinker on something like that.

[Garrowolf]

OKay, Good. I like the Heat thing too. What else?

[ShadowDragon]

These aren't rules Garrowolf, they're tips.

My GM style is to run the world as logically and organically as possible. If the players mess up, the world reacts appropriately. If they act unprofessionally, they make less money and get easier jobs until they prove themselves. If they leave evidence that leads Lonestar to their location, they'll get a rude visit (which happened to two of the PCs, and they very narrowly escaped). If they don't do their legwork and don't have an escape plan, there are likely going to be some PC deaths (which also happened, as you're aware of if you read my thread about the force 12 lightning ball). Likewise, if they play it smart, they're rewarded by the world. NPCs don't always follow these rules either, because like I said, I run the world logically.

[apollo124]

Something else to add..

Unless you have absolutely NO other choice, don't kill the cops! Whether it's the Star, KE, or whomever else, nothing says "chase them down, hurt them bad and kill them" like knocking off a cop. Narcoject , stun rounds and flash/bang grenades are reasonably priced and much better than a death warrant from everything in a badge.

[ShadowDragon]

[Crakkerjakk]

/agree with apollo

The only thing that mobilizes the Star faster than anti-tank weapons is a cop killer.

[Garrowolf]

okay fair enough

[apollo124]

Thanks, Crakkerjakk. Also something else just came to mind.

Do your best to have the right tool for the right job on hand. Sure, you will sometimes have to try to pick the lock with an Ares Predator, but if you have a lockpicking skillsoft and tool kit on hand, things will go a lot smoother. This goes for everyone on the team. To do your job at your best, know the right spells, skills, combat abilities, tech know-how, etc... and have the gear and spirits necessary at the time, when you can.

And building off of Crakkerjakk's comment..

Be aware of the security level of the areas you are going to and traveling through, and make sure what you take won't make you stand out of the crowd. Example...Don't take the assault cannon and heavy machine gun to rob the Stuffer Shack inside the Aztechnology pyramid.

[Kyoto Kid]

[ShadowDragon8685]

[Garrowolf]

One way to deal with the runners who manipulate the johnson too much is to have the johnson panic afterwards because he was so intimidated. He decides to change tactics and runs. They only have so much with them so that is the max that the runners get. They stop being shaodwrunners and become thugs. When they do this to to many johnsons and they all run away then they will get the idea. A few runs with no pay will work I think.

[ShadowDragon]

[Kyoto Kid]

...I've tried these approaches, but when the characters decide to walk, because they didn't get what they wanted, it is kind of a burn. I usually do not have a backup scenario planned due to the fact I have a real life (plus day job) and other interests outside SR.

We only meet every two weeks at best and I usually have to travel across town (by transit) to run/play since my place is too small for hosting a gaming session. A lot of trouble to go through to just pack everything in after say 20-30 min and go home.

[Leehouse]

Give them the price they want, then start double crossing(or leaving out vital points of information) them every run. They push the johnson around the Johnson isn't going to like it and is going to do something about it, in all likelihood that something will involve lots of ammo, or some other form of punishment

Leaving out information could be that the Johnson can afford to pay them that ammount but due to his budget is unable to get all, or any, information. Then make them work their butts off for that information.

[Kyoto Kid]

..actually, I have one thing I am doing in the scenario I am currently running which relates to my "point a." Boy will they be surprised by the outcome.

[Slump]

[toturi]

Information is very important. If you have it, you can do something about it. If you do not, something will be done to you. And in this case, it is literally better to give than to receive.

There are many ways to gather information. Networking with contacts and searching the Matrix are only 2 ways. Astral and physical Perception are other ways of gathering info, these may be better since the information is immediate and fresh. The GM has little to no wiggle room for changing something a PC has seen just a second ago.

[Garrowolf]

slump, I am very interested in this model of yours. Please tell us more or even better send files of notes. That is a great idea!

[Kyoto Kid]

[Thain]

I wrote this for my group a few years ago, I think its funny still.

[ Spoiler ]

Ladies and gentlemen of the class of '57,

Never Deal with a Dragon.

If I could offer you only one tip for the future, avoiding Dragons would be it.

The long term dangers of associating with Dragons have been proved by scientists, whereas the rest of my advice has no basis more reliable than my own meandering experience...I will dispense this advice now.

Enjoy the power and beauty of your tres chic clothing; oh nevermind; you will not understand the power and beauty of your clothes until they have faded. But trust me, in 20 years you'll look back at wanted posters of yourself and recall in a way you can't grasp now how much possibility lay before you and how fabulous you really looked.

You're not as fast as you imagine.

Don't worry about the Awakened World; or worry, but know that worrying is as effective as trying to summon a spirit by chewing bubblegum. The real troubles in your life are apt to be things that never crossed your worried mind; the kind that are 2 metres tall and want to blind you on a Tuesday at 4am.

Do one thing everyday that scares the neighbours.

Shoot straight.

Don't be reckless with other people's heavy machine guns, don't put up with people who are reckless with yours.

Conserve Ammo.

Keep up with SOTA; sometimes you're ahead, sometimes you're behind; the race is long, and in the end, it's what keeps you alive.

Remember the secret pay data you retreive, forget the loused up runs; if you succeed in doing this, tell me how. Keep your old cyberdecks, throw away your old credsticks.

Stay Low.

Don't feel safe if you don't know what you want to do with that hot merchandise, the most wanted people I know didn't know at 22 what they wanted to do with their illegal wares, some of the most dangerous 40 year olds I know still don't.

Get plenty of soykaf.

Be kind to your knees, they're expensive to replace.

Maybe you'll goblinize, maybe you won't, maybe you'll have HMHVV, maybe you won't, maybe you'll retire after 40 runs, maybe you'll dance the funky chicken on your 75th ;what ever you do, don't congratulate yourself too much or berate yourself either. Your survival is half chance, so is everybody else's.

Enjoy your Ares Predator, use it every way you can; don't be afraid of it, or what other people think of it, it's the greatest instrument you'll ever own...

Deck, even if you have nowhere to do it but in your own living room.

RTFM, even if you don't understand it.

Do NOT read Slashnull, it will only make you feel ugly.

Get to know your parents, you never know when you'll need some extra cash from them.

Be afraid of your criminal record; it's the best link to your past and the thing most likely to stick with you in the future.

Understand that Johnsons come and go, but for the precious few you should hold on. Work hard to bridge the gaps in geography and lifestyle because the older you get, the more you need the money.

Live in Seattle once, but leave before it makes you hard; live in Chicago once, but leave before you turn into a bug.

Travel.

Accept certain inalienable truths, the weirdness will increase, runners will sell out, you too will get old, and when you do you'll fantasize that when you were young the streets were normal, runners were noble and elves were trustworthy.

Never trust an elf.

Don't expect anyone else to support you. Maybe you have a stolen bank account, maybe you have a wealthy Johnson; but you never know when either one might be eaten by insect spirits. Don't mess too much with your wired reflexes, or by the time they're 40, they will be out of warranty. Be careful who's BTL's you buy, but, be patient with those who supply it.

Advice is a form of nostalgia, dispensing it is a way of fishing the past from the disposal, wiping it off, painting over the ugly parts and recycling it for more than it's worth.

But trust me on the Dragons

[sunnyside]

@KK

If you're one of the GMs who doesn't like dealing with people with high social skills in the future just tell your players that. Similarly for hackers or any other special class of skills. It just isn't fair to the player to screw them over because they didn't make a troll cybermage.

Still there are limits to what social skills can do, and there are other ways to reward them. Obviously a Johnson can only pay so much, typically printed adventures will give a limit, and the Johnson will expect their nuyens worth. But a highly social character might also figure out that the Johnson is holding back info/telling half truths etc and may be able to talk some extra info out of them. Additionally, with good RP and character may make the Johnson like them, which is often the point of social skills and extremly usefull. And that's the kind of task you need a social adept for as most Johnsons consider runners to be skum.

[sunnyside]

@ Garrowulf

On the subject of helping players grow common sense. First use in game NPC interactions and such to tell them about your world. Few GMs run everything the same and even if they did you can't expect your players to read all the sourcebooks and retain everything.

A key example of this is Lone Star. How GMs handle them is all over the place. Sometimes after raising nine kinds of hell the Star will send Barney Fife and Captain Dunksalot after them in their squad cars. Sometimes they've got competent officers, and the odd rotodrone and Condor surveilence miniblimp. And sometimes someone will have read the sourcebook and been inspired to try out that LS modified Harpy LAV with the special "Land Shark" missles they read about.

Also I find how much Hackers can get away with is all over the map.

You have to let them know.



Secondly usually your group will have an uneven level of stupidity. Make sure the other players see how the smartest guy is rewarded for those smarts. At the least they may gravitate toward letting them be the leader, but if you're lucky they'll start playing smarter and make the clever player have to up their game to keep ahead (and many are competitive enough to do so).

[ShadowDragon]

[Slump]

[Cynic project]

Never worry about losing tools. you can replace tools. You can't replace yourself.

[ShadowDragon8685]

[Rotbart van Dain...]

Which brings us to the point: Burn everything you don't take with you.

[fistandantilus4....]

[Ravor]

<Stolen from another Thread>

Whenever a chance to geek a cop with little chance of it being traced back to you presents itself, take it. After all the pigs tend to get cocky when their average life span raises too high.

[Sir_Psycho]

[Spike]

I'd say it was stolen from Chris Rock, but what do I know?I don't even know who baz lurhumen is... :eek:

[Teulisch]

Look like you belong. The best way to hide is in plain sight, as something everyone expects to see. while you can use illusions, a non-magical disguise is more practical when you can do it.

gel rounds are great for people. bring something more lethal for para-critters and drones.

You can open any door, any lock, any safe. the only real question is time. dont assume you will have enough time to do it the hard way. those cameras and gaurds are there for exactly that reason.

[ornot]

@KK... An idea presents itself. Have the Johnson meet them online. That way most of the social adepts powers are limited.

If your players are bullying you by refusing to play if you don't offer them uber goodness, then you're probably better off finding a group who are a little more mature.

Refusing to play unless you win is a tactic adopted by 5 year olds.

[Garrowolf]

What would be funny is if your social adepts started loosing jobs because the johnson liked them TOO much! Basically they get to know each other over the meet and he decides that the mission is too dangerous for his new friend. Basically they keep on getting contacts but no one will send them on a run!

[Kyoto Kid]

[Mistwalker]

@KK

A few other options that you can use are:

Meet is done by their Fixer, as the Johnston does not want to be known to them or deal with them (their rep is gettign around). Their fixer won't take nearly as much abuse as they seem to be dishing out to the Johnston. And have better ways of indulging in a bit of revenge vs the players.

Have word get around about them, so the Johnstons start offering 50% of what they are willing to pay, expecting to be beat up to 75 to 100%. The chars will probably never know, think they are soo good....

Have a second run set up one night, so when they turn the first one or the Johnston walks, you run the second one. Then have them "hear" about the first one that they turned down being done by another crew, who made out like kings.

Have the Johnston turn into a Dragon, who is annoyed at the threats. Just make sure that the room is big enough. :D

[Jack Kain]

Bargaining for a higher pay is a part of shadowrun life, if the Johnson can't handle that then he's not worth working for and the team should never speak or work with them again. There is no good reason to deny the PC's the chance to negotiate for a higher pay.

You can easily still set limits say up to four hits and each hit increases payment by 5%. Then throw in the Johnsons opposed roll.

If the runners keep refusing missions, well the need to eat and pay rent will catch up with them.

[ShadowDragon]

[fistandantilus4....]

[ShadowDragon8685]

KK, it may be hard, but here's what you do.

Go back to them, and have a J planned out with a nice mission, with generous pay and leeway with how much he will pay. But obey the three-step rule:

75% is his opening price
100% is what he wants to pay
125% is the very most he'll pay

Part of the problem is that we don't know what your group is. If they're a tech-heavy group, they may have such expenses that the runs you've been offering them simply don't pay enough in their minds. So here's what you do.

Offer them a big lump sum pay. 75,000 :nuyen: is his up-front offer, and he can be bargained up to 125,000 :nuyen:

Split four ways, that's not so bad - 31,250 :nuyen: each. Enough for a nice shiny new rotodrone.


Anyways, the J simply cannot go above 125,000 :nuyen: . Have him explain this to them if they try to bargain him up from there. "I'm sorry. That's as high as I'm going to go. It's not worth more than that."

If they persist, have the J stand up, politely say "I appologize, but I see I have contrated men who are simply too good for my needs. I cannot pay you what you are worth, and for this I am deeply shamed. I must go to find lesser men than you."

And then he leaves. Pure and simple. Then say, "Okay, guys, this is me. You've just chased off a good deal because you got greedy, and you're not gonna get another one that good for a long time. You're aquiring a rep for being far too greedy. So, that's it. Goodnight."

Put your book in your bag, then pause, and look at them again, and say "OR, we can pretend that didn't happen. We can pretend you believed Mr. Johnson when he said that was the absoloute most he could pay you. You can take the job, we can have a Shadowrun tonight, and you guys can stop doing this from now on. Your choice."


Sometimes an OOC soloution works best. OR, you could just have the Social adept roll, the Johnson roll (of course it's going to come out for the social guy), and say "You get him up to 125,000 :nuyen: . If you never quoted an original figure, they may think they're squeezing him for every last :nuyen: he has - which they are.

[djinni]

[ShadowDragon8685]

Oh, yeah. You can do a lot to a Mr. J, because he needs you almost as badly as you need him, but you can't threaten him. That's what bodyguards are for.

Have about six guys materialize out of the woodworks, carrying Ares Alphas, and "advise" the runners to leave. Immideately.

[cetiah]

[fistandantilus4....]

[Thane36425]

There is always the blackmail option. Suppose the runners had pulled a bloody or destructive run against someone like Aztechnology and the Azzies find out who did it. Rather than kill the runners, they find somone close to one or mre of the runners. They hire a Mr. Johnson to offer the team a run, not telling them it is the Azzies who are hiring them. If they refuse, Mr. J hands over a phone to a PC and on the other end if that certain someone in the hands of a nasty bunch of people. Now its do the job or lose the slob.

Granted that is underhanded as hell, but if the team has been playing fast and loose like there are no consequences, that might shake them up a bit. Of course, there is always the chance the players won't care and still walk away. Have it turn out the certain someone was used in a blood magic ritual and the Azzies let enough of the players contacts know about it. Their well will dry in a hurry over something like that.

[Kyoto Kid]

...to all, thanks for the pointers.

I actually have a fair amount of GM/DM experience (SF, Fantasy, Superhero), but unlike with these games, characters in Shadowrun need a different incentive "the job offer" to act. it is a lot easier to get them going when say some evil overlord is terrorising the countryside, or a megalomaniac is holding the city hostage with his new super secret death weapon. Runners, (at least in our group) don't get up from their sofa while watching the trivid and say, "that corp is really screwing things up, I think I'll get my chummers together & we'll go take a whack at them."

I particularly like the idea of the fixer handling the deal. For one thing, he or she knows at least on of the PCs and possibly enough about the others to know how to work them. I recently have started to include bodyguards and an "assistant" for the Johnson. For one session, I held the meet in a really ritzy restaurant which discouraged coming in "armed to the teeth" and glowing with sustained spells and active foci. This levelled the playing field on both sides. The only thing with this is that it is unrealistic (unless the same J hires them again) to use such a setting for every mission.

[Slash_Thompson]

I don't think it's particularly 'unrealistic' at all. and significantly more realistic than rarely having a meet in an upscale location (note that it doesn't always have to be a restaurant either. Have the meet happen at a Seahawks or Mariners Game, in a museum or at a convention - anywhere that security would be moderately high) Most Johnsons represent a group with significant bankroll and out in plain-sight is often the best place to hide something illegal.

The additional expenses incurred over a meet in, say, an abandoned parking garage are easily justified in terms of Johnson Safety and likelihood of hiring a 'better class' of 'Runner. (Remember too, most Johnsons represent a significant investment in training time and resources for the organization they represent and that organization, under normal circumstances, will want to protect that investment)

edit: for clarity

[Cheops]

I usually use the pattern of meet somewhere public and nice for the job offer and then the handoff afterwards tends to take place somewhere out of the way.

Favorites for the meet are: restaurants, hotels, parks, night clubs, markets, malls, even the aquarium once.

Handoffs are usually: parking garages, the Barrens, wilderness (Snohomish or Ft. Lewis esp), etc...

[Kyoto Kid]

...For the mission I ran before the one I am currently putting people through I had the meet take place at Embers, a very exclusive restaurant in the Elven district. Reservations Required, Valet Parking, Black Tie, No spellcasting/sustained spells, walls with Wireless defeating material etc.(lots of paranoid ex Tir slots in the Metrolpex now since the Crash and demise of the old council).

The meet for the current run took place at Gracie's For Ribs (love the old Seattle Sourcebook). Again a fairly respectable place. Actually, this was one of the best meets I ran. The experience they had at Embers might have something to do with why it went so smoothly.

[Garrowolf]

I knew a player in someone else's game that figured out that the game couldn't start until he agreed so he ran the price up really high. He basically blackmailed the GM in game into locking the game up.

I knew another GM who, when that same player did that again said,"well the Johnson can't afford that." and packed up his books and left. The other players solved the problem after that.

The only time that you will see a Mr Johnson in my games is if he is sitting right beside the Fixer. The Fixer doesn't like it but his boss, the Mafia Boss for all of Seattle told him to deal with it. Now if the players try anything funny then they are sitting in a heavily armed building that is owned and run by the Mafia. They have several layers of cyberware scanners, magical protection and machine guns in the walls. This is not including the fact that most of the people in the building are actually bodyguards and street sammies that work for the mafia (it's a club I use). There is a weapons check at the door, but by that time you have passed 8 guards at the entrance to the parking lot, 12 on a wall around the parking lot, another 8 at the door. Then each level has 4 at each stairway going up to the next level. How far up you get depends on who you know. Mafia bosses hang around on the 5th floor but the lower levels are clubs for the lower level people with connections. You have to go up to the 3rd floor to even see the fixer. This is the floor that all the corrupt cops hang out.

If they try and negoitate too much then the fixer will tell them no and so far that has been the end of it. If they say they need it for a specific reason then the fixer can make a call and solve the cost in house.

If they get really stupid and try and attack anyone in there and they happen to escape then they can spend the rest of the game looking over their shoulders. Most of their contacts are through the Mafia and so they are out in the cold. Their IDs were created by a mafia SIN decker. They have no house anymore. They are hunted men.

They have to use organized crime to function in my game. The only independants are low level gangers. If they want to go independant then they will have no ability to make useful contacts. Everyone works or is aligned with someone. You could walk away but you can't set up shop in someone else's back yard.

[fistandantilus4....]

[Garrowolf]

yeah I have lots of things that make it a bad idea in my game. This was an example of a novice GM just as a warning to others that I try and keep in mind.

I had one person try this with me before I switched to using the Fixer instead of the Johnson. The Johnson just looked at him and said,"I don't need to hire you. I can hire someone else instead that can do this under budget. Convince me that I should hire you at all."

They talked him down instead of up!

[fistandantilus4....]

[Garrowolf]

well you can send money and I would TRY and remember to pass it along. ;)

[Rotbart van Dain...]

[Wakshaani]

Solved that lil' problem a while back.

Teh first thing is to slowly work out a few night-long sessions during your down time. Nothing too fancy, strictly by-the-numbers minor runs, good for low level Runners that you could dash off in a night. Keep about ahalf dozen of those around, so in case of a walkout by teh players, or teh Johnson, the whole night isn't over.

The next is to get past the idea that the Shadowrunners are the *only* Shadowrunners. Have them show up, to see a different team meeting with Mr Johnson and, when the team's turn is up, have Mr Johnson mention that he's got another team (indicated with a nod that-a-way) to interview after the PCs. He's looking for a group that can do teh job, after all, and you don't just interview a single candidate, now do you?

Now, if teh team works with teh same Johnson several times and builds up a good reputation, he might come to them first, or even exclusively. "Ingenue, this is Mr Johnson. I've got a very important mission up and I'd prefer your team take it on. I'm prepared to offer our usual deal and can have the pertinent data delivered to you within the hour if you're interested."

Teh team gets regular work, and gets a Johnson that won't screw them over (Or, well, at least not too badly), because they shaped up and flew right. If they keep pressing their Johnsons too hard, however, they get a bad rep, other teams snap up teh good runs, and the team gets jobs like "Help Mrs Silverman find one of her lost Glow Kats. Pays 1000Y, split however you want."

And nobody wants that.

-- Wak

"Glow Kats, Glow Kats, they're the only cats *bum bum* that glow!"

[toturi]

[Mistwalker]

Back to the original thread.

Use plenty of Nanopaste for every run.
Use it when you meet the Johnston, use it on the run, use it for the handover.
Then don't use that "face" again.

Do this for every run, and you won't care if the face you used on the last run is plastered all over the place.

Your Fixer who sets up the meets, or the Johnston does if he is a regular, will know how to contact the runners, and know that they never look the same, do no problem from that end.

[Ed_209a]

[Kyoto Kid]

[Rotbart van Dain...]

[ShadowDragon8685]

[Slump]

[Kyoto Kid]

[fistandantilus4....]

Yup :D

[ornot]

[ShadowDragon8685]

[toturi]

[ornot]

@SD8685: That was indeed a random example, pulled out of the air. That being said, a Johnson with a particularly brutal negotiation style might start off that low and haggle!

@Toturi: While it might be possible for a team to build up a picture of the run from the vague details the J gives them, that's kind of the point. They won't know the specifics (what file is worth paydata, who needs extracting, which executive has outlived his usefulness) but they'll have a good idea what the job might entail, and whether the price is fair (the job should be doable for that team as the GM is suggesting it!)

Info brokers could indeed fill in the gaps, but that depends on the brokers being able to give the runners the information in a very short time frame, and the runners being willing to shell out the yen for the info.

I definately agree that a J isn't going to want to make his/her spiel more than 2 or 3 times, but should the first team they meet not take the job, they don't want the job to be fragged for any later teams.

[toturi]

[apollo124]

Since this topic seems to have become "How to stop my social adept players from screwing over Mr. Johnson", here's my contribution.

Pick up your old Shadowrun Companion (Fanpro 25010) and turn to page 52 "How to Hire a Shadowrunner" I know this chapter was copied from an earlier source, but I can't think of what that was right now.

Anyway, this chapter talks about shadowruns from the other side of the fence, from Mr. Johnson's perspective. Using procedures like having a professional Mr. J stand in for you, tissue samples to keep the group in line, and other things.

Hope this helps, or at least doesn't hurt.

[ShadowDragon8685]

[Glyph]

Professional Johnsons should often employ less-than-ethical means to track or manage the shadowrunners that they hire. They are hiring what they consider street trash to do dirty, dangerous work that they don't want traced back to them. So I would have no problem with Johnsons choosing intimidating settings, occasionally resorting to blackmail even when it isn't needed, and so on, simply for flavor.

But you shouldn't need these tactics simply to keep the players in line during negotiations! ShadowDragon8685's first post on this said it best - give the Johnson a hard cap on what he can offer the runners. After all, it's not his money that he's spending. So that keeps the maxed-out faces in check. As for boorish PCs, simply have them suffer the appropriate in-game consequences, although Johnsons will cut them some slack, since they usually expect thugs.

[Sir_Psycho]

[Slump]

All the runners I played went all "borrowed ladder" from gataca -- basically, you clear off absolutly all the dead skin cells and loose hair you can from your body, every morning, and carry around dead skin cells and loose hair (and toenail clippings, ect) to spread around so if anyone investigated, they found traces, but not of you.

One extremly paranoid character even went as far as to have a small reserve tank implanted with a DNI valve to make the borrowed urine actually come out of the appropriate oriface. The materials would come from various one-off deals with squatters in the barrens. 100 :nuyen: for a bucket of piss or a handful of hair was a pretty good deal.

[Garrowolf]

slump that is creative, funny, gross, and disturbing all at the same time. I guess people would be realy careful what they drank out of his frige.

[apollo124]

[bibliophile20]

I know of one group that is so paranoid about ritual sorcery, having been hit with it once before, that they've gone to impressive extremes, including:
Only half the team is physically present for the meet; the rest are there over the Matrix.
Those who go to the meet wear what amounts to a layer of latex and Saran-wrap under their clothes (clothes that are only worn for meets and thus have no reside on them), if they have hair, it's not natural, and, if the mage has assensed that the Johnson has no obvious magical backup, the mage constantly casts this invisible sterilize spell that has no visual effects

[WhiskeyMac]

Mr. Johnson shops around with fixers, not shadowrunners. A Johnson calls up a known fixer on his database and says "I need a team good with infiltration. You got anyone on tap?" The fixer says, "Yeah, I have a few teams that fit that bill. Let me ask around and see who's available." Then the Johnson says, "Excellent, have the team meet me at Icarus Descending, Friday @ 10:30 p.m. sharp. Ask for a Mr. Montebello." *click* Then the fixer runs through their datapad and finds out which team has the best availability and hires them. The Johnson doesn't shop around at the meet. That's just stupid.

[djinni]

[Mistwalker]

Who needs fecal matter.
Just have a very sharp needle get a blood sample when they sit down, some kind of auto-injector.

[Serial_Peacemake...]

It strikes me that jabbing your potential employees with a needle could make the deal go south very quickly. Since the way I see it is that shadowrunners run the gamut. Most have a certain level of professionalism. Others are more or less crazy kamikaze berserkers that happen to hire out their 'talents' for money. All of them are well armed, and usually have reason for paranoia. Even if the needle trick worked say nine out of ten times. Time number ten ends with the Johnson getting shot.

[cetiah]

[toturi]

Are tiny flakes of skin cells sufficient for ritual magic? What if the runners are using Link-me-no-more? For every gimmick you try to get their ritual sample with, you might as well just say,"The Johnson has your ritual samples. No. No. I don't care. Cos I said so."

Actually, on the tenth time, it would end with the Johnson getting dead. But for the rest of the 9 times, it would end with the Johnsons telling the runners everything they know. Remember the GM might be god, but there are a lot more players than GMs and they know where you live. :D

[Ravor]

Well I don't remember if its in this thread or another, but I remember reading something here on Dumpshock that has forever changed my shadowrun universe for all time...

In the world of the shadows, there is one line that no-one will ever dare cross, and that is the Runners and Johnson will *NEVER* try to touch each other, and if either side crosses that line then the other has total right to rape, torture, and then kill the other without fear of lossing their rep.

As for tiny flakes of skin and the minute DNA you could find on someone's glass, even if they are good enough to use as a ritual link which I personally doubt (However, at the moment I'm feeling too lazy to search my copy of Street Magic to check for sure.) you have to remember that unless this is a rush job then more than likely the magical link will have faded before the run has even began.

[apollo124]

Of course getting a cell sample would be tough. Check out Street Magic, the rules on sympathetic links for ritual magic in the advanced magic rules, pages 28-29. You can, with some luck, get a link off of that glass that the runner was drinking from or a symbolic link with a voodoo doll that is made to look like the runner.

Not saying getting a sample is easy or smart, just that if someone wanted to do it, they don't need an actual sample anymore, just stuff like that listed.

[Ravor]

True, you're right, it is possible to get Links from the items that you mentioned, however I think you are missing my main point;

I doubt that a few skin flakes are going to last any longer then a bloodstain so you are looking at having to start your ritual within a few hours plus whatever time your preserve spell and/or refrigerating the sample bought you before it is worthless. So with the exception of an extreme rush job its pointless to do so.

For the wine glass you are quite literally talking about only having a matter of minutes before the link is completely useless, so I don't really see much of a point unless the meet itself was nothing more then a set-up from the start and there never was a job for the characters in the first place.

As for using a Voodoo Doll, yes, but then you are also talking about something that can only be done with Metamagic and at the very least takes a full day per doll.

So yes, Ritual Magic can be a very dangerous tool, and in some cases if the Johnson has done his legwork and managed to get ahold of favored personal belongings for the entire team, or has access to the necessary metamagic and time to craft voodoo dolls of the entire team there isn't really much of anything that the team can do to defend themselves against him, but then you have me wondering what in the nine hells are the Runners agreeing to do to be worth that much effort on the Johnsons part before he even knows whether they'll accept the job or not.

Because unless they are agreeing to something on the scale of Mission Impossible ect then I think it is the same exact thing as simply dropping a Thor Shot on them.

[Thane36425]

[Thane36425]

[Thane36425]

[MaxHunter]

I do things that way too. I mean, street cred, rep for specific kinds of work, etc. Unluckily for some of my players, they got outstanding good rep for a couple bodyguard and security duties and now are called for the most horribly difficult runs. (and their character stats still lag behind their reputations)

Ok course, they earn good money, but it's fun to watch:

Mr Johnson - "The opposition expected is both corporate and government, and it is expected that ultimate measures be taken against you once your cover is blown, of course, we are sure your team will be able to handle that..." (extracted from last run, still in progress)

cheers,

Max

[nathanross]

Yeah, powerfull voodoo mystic adepts that spirit their charisma to 12 and negotiate with 18+ dice do often miss the subtle clues the world gives them while they are masturbating on their own power. Blow and Glow, who coulda thunk?

EDIT: Just realizing thread addressed was 3 pages back.

[kzt]

[fistandantilus4....]

Yeah, I always had problems with body guard runs as well. Always struck me as a lot of waiting, then sudden burst of action, then it's over. Bottle rocket run.