Those Silly Tachikomas, Tachikoma stats! Options

[Samantha]

Does anyone have the SR4 stats for Tachikomas? If not, what do you think they should be? I'd love to use one for my rigger. If anyone can help me out, that'd be superb.

[bibliophile20]

I do not have any stats for those lovable little tanks, but I have something to say, first.

Mike, Peter, if either of the two of you should happen to come across this topic and begin to get any ideas...

NO.

There, now that I've hopefully headed my players off at the pass, I would have to say, that, for a Tachikoma to work properly, personality-wise, you would need a Machine Sprite or an A.I. to be the personality in residence; my opinion of Agents is that they don't have enough personality to do the sort of things that the Tachikomas did.

[Samantha]

I don't need the stats for the A.I. or anything like that. Just the Tachikoma itself. Does anyone have anything for this?

[Karaden]

Well, given that there are currently no rules whatsoever for out for making custom drones, it would be hard to do anything with proper SR4 rules. (Unless I missed Arsenal coming out)

Though I suppose you could take the steel lynx, give it two white knights hidden in the arms and a one shot Assault Cannon, make it so it can opperate as either anthro or wheeled vehicle, and that would likely give you something like the tachikoma.

[Samantha]

Gotta give it a pod for a person to get into as well, don't you?

[Karaden]

True, but that is less of a mechanic supported thing. Kind of like the fact that it has 6 legs instead of 4 and two arms instead of none. Not to mention it has data jacks.

[Samantha]

Eh, the 'matrix' in Ghost in the Shell isn't wireless, so they still use datajacks.

[Karaden]

Actually it is wireless, but there are still reasons to have datajacks, just like in SR4 there are still people with datajacks.

[Crusher Bob]

Something like:

Basic version:
Handling 0 (or +1)?

legs
Accel 15/20
Speed 60

wheels
Accel 15/40
Speed 120

Pilot 3
Sensor 3
Body 8
Armor 6
two Str 5 manipulator arms (should these be stronger?)
~25,000Y

Security Version:
1 Assault rifle in each arm (300 round capacity?)
1 Grenade Launcher (12 round capacity?)
Up armor to 10
Pair of Grapnel launchers w/ winches
Chameleon effect (as suit)
~65,000 (The Chameleon effect costs around 25K of this price increase)

[Magus]

What about a BOLO?

[Cardul]

[djinni]

[Stahlseele]

Style over Substance for example *g*
Security Reasons obviously.
being used to the act of going KLICK . . there's many a Reason for that ^^

[Adarael]

[djinni]

[Adarael]

"Jamming is not a regular defense?" What kind of Shadowrun are you playing, because where I come from jamming is one of the first lines of defense when people are being security conscious. Only area jammers inhibit everyone - directional jammers can easily be pointed at you, and only affect you. Likewise, using the EW skill to mess with one particular type of communication is also possible.

No, it's like not flying an airplane over a country if that country has been known to occasionally lob SAMs at you - it doesn't always happen, but all it takes is that once to ruin your day. And if you're a runner, people will actively be TRYING to ruin your day on a regular basis. One might even say that this is the nature of the conflict in the game.

Also, no one said that you had to be wired OR wireless. You can go wireless for 95% of everything and still have a datajack for things that absolutely have to be secure. "A lot" of devices may not have a hardline connection, but ones that have to remain secure will. Such as military vehicles.

[Lyonheart]

[Ravor]

Besides, generally speaking it is better for corp-sec who already have the advantage of being on 'their turf" to take out the enemy's communications even if by doing so you are running blind yourself.


Of course, datajacks are worth their weight in gold if for no other reason then the ability to run 'softs, being able to speak every language known to man as well as being able to call up employee lists, passcodes, ect, all in a DNI connection that is so common that it is unlikely to even be given a second glance, and if they do search it then it's almost impossible for them to prevent you from simply deleting the incrimating data.

[Karaden]

Can we get off the datajack subject? It is compleatly off from the OP. Gezz, all this started because I mentioned that tachikoma have datajacks.

[Moon-Hawk]

I'm no GitS expert, but from what I remember the tachikoma's don't really exhibit problem solving or strategic ability beyond what you'd expect from a high-rated pilot. While I know that they're supposed to be artificially intelligent, I don't remember them accomplishing any intellectual feats beyond what I consider the capabilities of a rating 6 Pilot program. From there, you can just slap a personality program like a virtual person or virtual pet on the front-end to give them that quirky, cutesy interface, and I think you're close enough for SR.
I know they had a tenancy to wax philosophically, but if that was just a pre-programmed part of their personality instead of "true AI", would it ruin them for your SR purposes?

[Nikoli]

It wasn't part of their original programming. It was, IIRC, a direct side-effect of Boma's tendency to single out 1 Tachikoma and use it exclusively. He gave it natural oil that was tainted and that started a chain reaction within it's logic processors. Think of this as the "X" factor described in earlier SR editions for creating a true Artificial intelligence instead of a Artificially Intelligent Semi-Autonomous Knowbot (or Pilot/Agent). These quirks soon spread to the other Tachikomas via their data sharing sessions at the end of the missions. Soon they began to question their environment, their existence, the nature of the soul. note they never disobeyed an order that would mean their destruction, they only disobeyed orders when it was necessary to save members of Section 9, in effect acting like true members of Section 9 instead of tools.
The Major was very concerned about the questioning nature that was developing in the Tachikomas, she saw the possibility that they would eventually choose to no longer obey at all, which is unacceptable for a tool, however the world was not yet ready for a fully actualized and self-aware AI. She sympathized to a degree with their plight as they did not ask to become self-aware, did not ask to be put in harms way and I very seriously think she respected them for being willing to sacrifice themselves for the member of Secion 9 even given their status was less than that of a slave. I think this is why she had them reassigned to non-combat duties (such as care facility nanny) rather than have them destroyed as was ordered.

Also, IIRC they were prototypes from the same company that made the vehicles that were used to spark the refugee war and it was the same instability in those vehicles that ultimately allowed the taint introduced by Boma to spread.

[Samantha]

Thanks for the replies folks. Those stats look useful. Does anyone disagree with them? I'm thinking of showing them to a few GMs and seeing what they think.

[mfb]

[Nikoli]

I wouldn't start as Drones. They were vehicles with high pilot rating.

[mfb]

[Moon-Hawk]

[PBTHHHHT]

an ad hoc way of getting a tachikoma without using agents and such... get the brain in a jar stuff from the augmentation book, have it slapped in the anthroform body with what y'all have said. The brain coming from a kid/clone similar to what has been stated in the hooks from the rules. Voila, a childlike, hyper personality running a legged minitank. Basically Tachikomas but with a shadowrun twist.

The players who are familiar with Ghost in the shell will think AI. Aren't they in for a surprise if they manage to crack open one of these things.

[Stahlseele]

one reason why i am waiting for arsenal . . hopefully options that allow such things as tachikoma and johnny 5 *g* .. fuck Elemental Armor, those guys are funny! ^^

[Adarael]

[Stahlseele]

they use wireless for communication when outside of tachikoma, that's enough i'd say

[Moon-Hawk]

[mfb]

[Lyonheart]

They should be easy enough, I'd give them a leg/wheel speed and enough body/armor to stop small arms fire, a pair of White Knights and a HMG or a Panther, Pilot 6/Response 6 throw in some other stats and call it done until Arsenal.

[Moon-Hawk]

Well, now that Arsenal is out: (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ork.gif)

They're supposed to be about sedan-sized, so lets start with a sedan. The Hyundai Shin-Hyung is a sedan with extra modification slots and good speed and handling, so that's probably a good place to start. We're just going to assume that the piles of modifications allow us to completely re-imagine how this thing would look from the outside.

You can pile 20 points of standard armor on it, so it's definitely a little tank.
Body Stabilizer 3 is probably a good idea, this will help it jump/rappel/etc and generally help give them the agility we expect.
Chameleon Coating is a no-brainer.
Gecko Tips do require GM permission on larger-than-medium-drones, but it's fitting in this case, just remember it's HEAVY.
2x Mechanical Grapple. I think the full arm is probably overkill.
Rigger Adaptation. Well duh.
Walker Mode. Specifically references "multiple independent wheels", so this is perfect. Halves acceleration and speed, but that's why we picked a fast car in the first place.
Winch (Enhanced) for the spider-like rappelling. Vehicle needs Body 10 or less, another reason we chose the Shin-Hyung.
Probably a flexible weapon mount for the LMG-arm, and a standard weapon mount for the larger weapon. Maybe a reinforced mount, depending on what you're putting in it, but I'm going to use a small grenade launcher for this example, so standard.
Add either a pilot 6 with fuzzy logic or a cyborg adaptation, either route it's 1 modification slot.
What are we up to? 18 modification slots, that's only 4 over the limit, so as long as we do them in the right order, the overmodification penalties aren't even that bad. I haven't worked out the cost exactly, but we're looking at something on the order of 60,000Y (not including costs for the "brain", which can be vastly different but should add a good chunk of change), if I haven't miscalculated horribly. Plus the vehicle shop and mini-forge thingy (to let you sort-of have a facility) And it's nothing if we assume someone is actually designing this from scratch, instead of trying to do it with modifications in their garage.
I'm a little unclear on what mix of amphibious operation and life support are required to make it strictly submersible, rather than being particularly "amphibious", so that's going to tack on a little extra if you want to take it in the pool. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

This gives us a handling of 3 (plus the body stabilizer gives 3 more dice in a lot of cases)
Acceleration of 10/23 (23? Depends on how you round)
Speed of 80. It's no racecar, but that's a pretty good clip.
Body 10 Armor 20. Small tank.

Hopefully anyone with Arsenal can follow along what I did here.

As I've said, I'm not a GitS expert, so it's there any important abilities this thing is lacking? Anyone?

Bear in mind, there are plenty of GMs out there who will Thor Shot this thing out of existence quicker than you can say "synthetic oil", and for good reason.

[Ryu]

@Moon-Hawk: One more of your ideas that I like!

[hobgoblin]

18 slots? thats 8 over the limit (4 or body, whichever is less), not 4.

also, i wonder if not it was a remote turret they had on top, not a flexible mount (still, that depends on the amount of flex a flexible mount have), 90 degrees in either direction seems a bit much to me...

[Moon-Hawk]

18 slots? thats 8 over the limit (4 or body, whichever is less), not 4.

also, i wonder if not it was a remote turret they had on top, not a flexible mount (still, that depends on the amount of flex a flexible mount have), 90 degrees in either direction seems a bit much to me...

The limit is usually 4 or Body, whichever is more.
The vehicle has special notes in its stat block that lets it have 14 slots instead of the regular 10, that's part of why I used it. So I'm only 4 slots over.
There are rules for over-modification, and they're not that bad.
First off, I used ALL remote mounts, since it can be fired by the drone. No one needs to operate them with their hands, and even when there is an operator present in the drone he's still firing them "remotely". I left them external visibility, 'cause they look pretty obvious to me, but if someone wanted to make an argument for internal visibility, meh, who am I to argue? Concealed visibility is right out. I didn't think the Tachikoma had any turret flexibility, can they fire in any direction? I thought they were generally forward-firing. My only conflict was whether they should have flexible flexibility or fixed flexibility, I never even considered turret flexibility. I'm confused, because you seem to be saying that flexible flexibility is too flexible (which you might be right about) but then you seem to be suggesting turret flexibility, which is way more flexible than flexible flexibility.

[DocTaotsu]

I'm really sure if the tachi's need gecko pads. I guess it'd help with handling while suspended? Also they do a fair bit of hacking and so forth on their own so it'd be necessary for them to have a milspec comlink/ECCM suite, although I don't know if that ads appreciably to mod slots.

The speeds you show sound right on. As long as they can keep up with freeway traffic the should be fine. I recall that they were driven/flown into most distant locales.

Does being insufferably cute take up mod points?

[Moon-Hawk]

As I understand it upgrading Response, Pilot, Firewall, etc doesn't take mod slots, and I didn't really take the "brain" into account (other than the mod slots of cyborg adaptation or fuzzy logic), I just handwaved it as something that could be done. There's no concept to be proven there.
I thought they could cling to walls. *shrug*
The insufferable cuteness could easily be handled by a personality program, like a virtual pet or virtual person that they use for their front-end user interface. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[DocTaotsu]

hehe... I would pay cash money for my own tachikoma desktop pet. Seriously, I might even be willing to forgo having a tanks I can jump into.

The wall cling thing is something I'm not sure they do. There really wasn't too many situations where they were doing something that didn't involve them being suspended by their winches. I just mentioned in case you needed to free up the mod points for something cool.

[krakjen]

By the way, only one of the Tachikoma's arm is weaponized.
So there is only two weapons, an assault rifle and a light canon/grenade launcher (who can be replaced by a minigun)
The other arm has a fiber optic extension cable for hacking/communication.

First and last image:
1st: Tachikoma with canon cover, note the ammo drum on his right arm.
4rd: This time with the minigun and another angle on the drum.

[hobgoblin]

The limit is usually 4 or Body, whichever is more.

i swear i typed more, excuse me while i clean out some fault sprites from my head and computer...

or maybe i should just say duh, as it seems i posted that comment on the design without fully digesting it...