Beating a Dead Horse, Dumpshock Style Options

[crash2029]

I have posted a few topics before, mostly about rules questions and whatnot, and I have recieved what I consider to be prompt and useful feedback. Thank you Dumpshock Community. Now I have noticed that alot of, shall we say, controversial topics tend to degenerate into something resembling a rather mature version of "Uh Huh!" "Nuh Uh!" so therefore I have concluded that many folks here like endless debate on the minutia of a subject. To that end, in order to say thank you this thread is an invitation to beat that dead horse until you can no longer stand it.

magic vs cyberware
nerfing vs rules as written
close combat vs firearms
bows
reality vs fiction
alien vs predator
spy vs spy

Have fun! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

[Method]

I have concluded that many folks here like endless debate on the minutia of a subject.

Why the hell else would we come here? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[Stahlseele]

Munched out Character ideas for example . .
Roll-Playing VS Role-Playing

[nezumi]

Dumpshock does have a reputation for having a lot of nit-pickers. I think part of that is because the system simultaneously tries to be realistic, and adds in a lot of very unrealistic aspects.

magic vs cyberware

By the rules, magic is more powerful, but cyber is waaay cooler.

nerfing vs rules as written

Rules first, nerfing as necessary, modified based on the desires of the group.

close combat vs firearms

Close combat has its purposes, but in a straight out fight, firearms are generally better, or at least easier to use effectively without being a specialist.

bows

Much like ribbons, can be very pretty

reality vs fiction

Reality is only communally-agreed-upon fiction

alien vs predator

Oh, that's a good one. My vote would have to go Arnold, however.

spy vs spy

Spy, definitely.

[Larme]

I don't think close combat vs firearms is a dead horse, or a horse at all. Everyone knows that melee DVs can be ridiculous, but melee combat is weak because you have to get up close. It can be good, but just melee without a ranged skill is a non-starter. IMHO, the only people who propose martial artists without any backup ranged skill (or some really, really good stealth to let them sneak up and get close without being shot) are noobs (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Also, is nerfing vs RAW an issue? I mean, there is a difference of opinion. But it's not actually an argument. There's nothing to argue. It comes down to person preference - do you want to tweak everything in the whole game so it's exactly like you want it to be, i.e. nerf everything that seems overepowered, or just roll with it because it's easier? That's the two sides of the argument, but there's no right answer. People have to do what they enjoy. To the extent that this issue is a dead horse, it basically started as a dead horse because it never had legs to begin with.

And magic vs. cyber... That's another red herring. The way to go is magic AND cyber. People always talk about them as being mutually exclusive, because they're married to the archetypes in the main book, which are specifically identified as archetypes and not character classes. People choose to be a pure mage or a pure sammie, then they bitch about how that choice is not optimal, they want the system to make their favorite archetype the best... But really, why does it matter which is better? Are we putting mages and sammies into pitfights one at a time to see who wins? If that was the game, then imbalances between the two would be really important. But Shadowrun is a team game. If you're a mage, you should have a sammie friend to patch up your weaknesses, and vice versa if you're a sammie. Argument solved!

[ElFenrir]

I'll throw my hat in.

Availability at Chargen/The Gentlemans Way of handling it(this could go under houserule)

My opinion here? Might as well edit for an opinion. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) I don't like availability at chargen for several reasons.

1. Even though it claims to be for balance, alot of it doesn't make sense. There are plenty of things in the game that to me, work just about the same, but have a higher or lower Availability. There are some things that are downright better in almost all ways(Bone Density Treatment, forex), which are legal by RAW at chargen, but Titanium Bone Lacing isn't-which is only cheaper(and the same if you get it Alphaware, which at it's essence cost, isn't a bad idea). Oh yeah, TBL shows up on MADs.
Monowhips are legal, not before. TBL WAS legal, not now. (Someone pointed out a good refrence to real life-sometimes crap is expensive and hard to find, and sometimes better stuff isn't.) You can't load a pair of contacts or glasses with perfectly chargen legal stuff...because the Availability goes up to much, and you should technically be able to walk into a shop and get alot of this stuff.

2. Honestly, the gentleman's rule is great. We never used it and we have fun. Honestly, i'd be happier if someone gave me just three well written sentences on why they have a suite of high Availability stuff at chargen, than someone who took a bunch of ''legal but still zomg powerful stuff'' and didn't write anything about it other than telling me ''its good.''

3. I think it can even add to characters, by allowing them to have cool stuff at the start; they get to make up stores why they have it. Why are they still running? Well, there is always better and more stuff to get! With 250k nuyen, you can't have everything you want. There is always more toys to get.

just some of the things.

[Lionhearted]

you forgot the most important ones.. namely:
Ninjas vs pirates and Werewolves vs Vampires (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Rad]

Lets face it, we're all gaming nerds here. Nerds fight on the internet. It happens. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Christ, you should see the WOTC forums, the mods actually had to outlaw katana threads once...

[Wounded Ronin]

Lets face it, we're all gaming nerds here. Nerds fight on the internet. It happens. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Christ, you should see the WOTC forums, the mods actually had to outlaw katana threads once...

AH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH! Oh my god, that's too funny.

I remember back when I was a little kind in 4th grade I liked katanas before they were cool in the mainstream. This was because I liked history and read samurai legends at that time. My intro to katanas wasn't anime, but rather Lafcadio Hearn.

Imagine my dismay now that I'm 25 and katanas are now nutridden by the stupidest people known to man and not history/folklore affectionados.

Why do people have no dignity, no shame? Why!?

[Lionhearted]

Lets face it, we're all gaming nerds here. Nerds fight on the internet. It happens. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

hmmm... Fight Club: Nerd edition! soon in a retailer near you! .. now that would be something

[Muspellsheimr]

you forgot the most important ones.. namely:
Ninjas vs pirates and Werewolves vs Vampires (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Ninjas vs Pirates...
I play with fire - they both burn.

Werewolves vs Vampires
Last World of Darkness game I played in, the group had 2 vampires, 2 mages, and a wolf. Any one of us was able to take out an abomination, with varying difficulties.

[swirler]

cavemen vs astronauts!!

and we do NOT need this thread
that is my stance on that matter!!!!!!!!!!!

[Speed Wraith]

cavemen vs astronauts!!

roflmao, I wonder if that is moar Intertube points for you than CanRay's earlier Wizards reference?

[CanRay]

Do I have to give up my Intertube points now? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

I like my Intertube points. I get enough of them, I become an honourary Italian Plumber, and get to choose between the red and green overalls!

[Speed Wraith]

Naw, don't have to give them up, he just might get first pick on the overalls. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

And what's with that anyway? Mario brothers? Does that mean his name is Mario Mario? Been wonderin that for well over two decades now...

[Lionhearted]

Naw, don't have to give them up, he just might get first pick on the overalls. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

And what's with that anyway? Mario brothers? Does that mean his name is Mario Mario? Been wonderin that for well over two decades now...

Never seen the Super mario brothers flick?
"Name..?"
"Mario.."
"Last name?"
"Mario"
"Mario Mario?"
"Yes so what?"
"And you?"
"Luigi.."
"Luigi Luigi?"
"No Luigi Mario.. we're the mario brothers"

[Speed Wraith]

Actually, I have not seen it, believe it or not. Why, see below...

Yeah, let's get a British actor to play an Italian American plumber from a Japanese video game!

[Lionhearted]

well they dropped the italian part ;P they're hardknock brooklyn plumbers

[Kerris]

Brooklyn... Italian...

Six to one, half dozen to the other

[Lionhearted]

Brooklyn... Italian...

Six to one, half dozen to the other

Hein?

[Stahlseele]

same difference as betwen po-ta-to and pota-to . . .

[CanRay]

And, for even more randomness...

The first phone call I ever took while at one call centre (Sales, Billing, and Tech Support for New York Cable TV) was from Harlem, asking to be hooked back up for Cable after two months of having Satelite.

His reason: "If someone steals my Cable TV, my picture gets a little fuzzy. If someone steals my satelite dish, I don't get jack!"

[Lionhearted]

same difference as betwen po-ta-to and pota-to . . .

Ah.. sugar and coffeine is taking its toll on my brain

[JBlades]

*Shows up with a bat and enough bubblegum for everyone*

Yo! Heard you had a horse you need beat. I have a few questions before we start:
1) You didn't specify whether kicking was allowed. Can we kick it, too? If so, are steel-toed boots ok?
2) What is the breed of the horse? Are you sure it's not a mule? Perhaps a donkey?
3) Who certified the horse dead? Was a vet called? Was the vet licensed, or just some kid from vet school?
You have to be specific around here, y'know? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sarcastic.gif)

[Lionhearted]

*Shows up with a bat and enough bubblegum for everyone*
Yo! Heard you had a horse you need beat. I have a few questions before we start:
1) You didn't specify whether kicking was allowed. Can we kick it, too? If so, are steel-toed boots ok?

Why kick.. when you got your Certified Roosevelt Big stick