Unlucky Players, What to do Options

[IQ Zero]

Currently, my group of 8 players has this one extremely unlucky player. Role-playing wise, he does everything based on how his character write-up describes him. His actions are extremely suitable to the various situations that the group encounters, however, in 9 sessions, he is already on his 9th character through sheer bad luck in rolling dice.

His first character died while rappelling down a roof (4 STR + 3 Athletics) for 9 dice (including 2 for assisted climbing), he rolls 8 ones and no successes. Edge to reroll, rolls 7 ones and no successes, edges again for 9 ones.

Second character dies while fighting a go-ganger with a Predator (4 AGL + 4 Pistol + 2 specialization + 2 smartlink) with 10 successes against his defense of (5 AGL + 2 Dodge + 2 specialization) with 0 successes, edged thrice for 0 successes still then his damage resistance test (8 Camouflage Suit + 4 Body) for 0 successes again, edged twice for 3 successes (best roll).

The other 7 died in similar fashion, becuase of pure bad luck. Is there anything I can do for him?

[Yoan]

When a horse gets that lame, they take it out back and shoot it.

Harsh, but he's clearly cursed and his days here on earth are numbered.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/sleepy.gif)

[Glyph]

Tell him to get some new dice.

[Kliko]

screw the dice and cut him some slack...

[Muspellsheimr]

And I thought I was bad with my frequent 3 hits / 16 dice...

EDIT:
In the 10 hit shot example, you could have fudged the die roll, so he took less damage & survived. Any time death is a result of your roll, you can always fudge it - just don't be to lenient - if there is no risk, the game looses a significant amount of it's fun.

In the case were it's his rolls, remind him that he can always burn a point of edge to get a critical success automatically, or to survive somehow. If he has to burn edge regularly simply to continue playing, consider giving him free increases to edge every once in a while - just enough so he must still pay karma to keep it up, but can still advance in other ways.

EDIT:
Thought I would clarify how burning edge to survive works, just in case you do not understand it.

• Escape certain death. This use of Edge represents another shot at life - something the spirits are rare to provide. The streets have decided that they have more uses for this character before she's discarded to the trash heap and miraculously pull her from the jaws of Death. Gamemasters can explain this phenomena with any rationale they like, from sheer coincidence to the intervention of the gods. Note that the character is not necessarily unharmed by the action; if shot in the head, for example, she may be knocked into a coma and appear dead to her enemies, but she will survive to get revenge another day.

Note it does not say survive an attack - that is what burning for a critical success is for - it says survive death. This can be interpreted a few ways, ultimately up to the GM. My group, for example, uses the guideline of "survives this encounter/combat". I would suggest saying a character who uses edge this way cannot be killed, for whatever reason, until they have recovered enough to act on their own again.

Depending on the circumstances, a few ways to explain this are as follows:

• If it is simply a standard combat, none of the bullets hit anything that would cause instant death, and DocWagon arrives in time to save them (they could be just down the street when they receive the call, or he does not bleed out for several minutes, giving them time to arrive).
• If there is no conceivable way to prevent the enemies from performing a Coup-de-Grace, Augmentation presents rules for genetic Augmented Healing. As long as the brain is semi-intact, it could theoretically remain "active" long enough for them to fully regrow his body - a long & expensive treatment, but at the end he will be in perfect health.
• If there is nothing at all you can do & still maintain a semblance of realism to prevent his body/brain from being completely destroyed (aka cremation), you could rule that a corp somewhere has his genetic sample & full recordings of his memories/skills, & they make a breakthrough on clonal brain growth, allowing them to implement his memories into a force-grown brain & cloned body. In this last case, however, it would be reasonable for you to require him to burn all remaining edge &/or put him in the employ of said corp.

[Nigel]

Fudge rolls occasionally, if it's really that bad.

I suggest making him buy new dice, lining them up with the 2s (assuming they're pipped, otherwise the 6s) facing the old ones, and destroying the old ones. I normally do not condone such behavior in any way, under any circumstances, but these dice sound infernally and terminally unlucky. The taint will spread if you allow the two sets to mingle, though.

Oh, and matched dice usually help. A box of Chessex 36-10mm d6 is a great idea, and can be gotten from your nearest gaming store. If they don't have any in stock, ask to look at the catalog for colors.

EDIT: Also refer to http://www.textfiles.com/rpg/dices.txt

[Kagetenshi]

screw the dice and cut him some slack...

Screw the slack and avoid magical thinking.

~J

[Blade]

Let's try to think rationally first.

Are you sure he really is unlucky? Have someone write down the result of each of his rolls to check if it's really the case. Everytime I tried, it clearly showed that probability work the way it's supposed to (at least it does when you observe it). Most of the time, "unlucky players" are just players who emphasizes on their failed rolls.

Maybe his dice aren't well adjusted, did you try to have him roll dice known to be more or less equiprobable? Or maybe have him change the way he rolls dices. I've heard about a player who was able to get standard 6 sided dices to fall on the side he wanted when rolling them one by one a specific way.

Finally, you can have him use a computer dice roller on a computer/PDA/mobile phone. Pseudo-randomness can be better than real randomness sometimes.

[Kagetenshi]

Real randomness is always better. That's why I have my dieroller run on entropy generated by radioactive decay.

~J

[Kliko]

Let me guess, you also use the background radiation in your home to determine your encryption keys (IMG:style_emoticons/default/spin.gif) ...

[Ryu]

@Kage: Now does running your diceroller count as work? *runs and hides*

[Jrayjoker]

There is bad luck, and then there is bad luck. The best solution I have heard is to use edge as written above. Although I thought the "Hand of God" rule burned all your edge. (I have no BBB at work, so I can't look it up.)

[JoelHalpern]

...
His first character died while rappelling down a roof (4 STR + 3 Athletics) for 9 dice (including 2 for assisted climbing), he rolls 8 ones and no successes. Edge to reroll, rolls 7 ones and no successes, edges again for 9 ones.

Second character dies while fighting a go-ganger with a Predator (4 AGL + 4 Pistol + 2 specialization + 2 smartlink) with 10 successes against his defense of (5 AGL + 2 Dodge + 2 specialization) with 0 successes, edged thrice for 0 successes still then his damage resistance test (8 Camouflage Suit + 4 Body) for 0 successes again, edged twice for 3 successes (best roll).
...

I would look at replacing his dice. Not because of superstition. But because they are producing results so far from the statistical norms as to suggest a manufacturing defect.
In your first example, you are describing a 1 in 300,000 shot, followed by a 1 in 40,000 shot, followed by a 1 in 10,000,000 shot (I have rounded these odds up slightly in the calculation mechanism. Some would arge that the first two are even less likely than I quote.)
Given that he later got a 2.6% shot three times running, these dice seem to be unbalanced. (Getting a single 2.6% roll is going to happen. It is the followon rolls that are significant.)
(Yes, one will get unlikely rolls. In one Ultracorps game, folks were talking a lot about how many 1-3 % outcomes were coming up. I recently had a 1 in 200 roll. But, odds in the under 1 in 10,000 really are long. And statistics do mean something.)
Proving that the dice are weighted is actually very hard. You would actually need to record all the results, every time he rolls. And get a lot of rolls recorded. But what you have is enough evidence for a pragmatic step.

Joel

Edit to correct the 100,000,000 to be 10,000,000. Still absurd.

[Wesley Street]

Although I thought the "Hand of God" rule burned all your edge. (I have no BBB at work, so I can't look it up.)

It permanently burns one edge point from your attributes. Which can, of course, be purchased back later with Karma. IQ, are you letting him use the "Hand of God" option? I'm also wondering if your player is creating characters, deciding he doesn't like them and fudging his rolls so they will perish and he can build a new one. I have a player who grew bored with his characters very quickly and was constantly switching until I told him he had to stick with one. His indecision was jacking with the game's metaplot.

[Muspellsheimr]

There is bad luck, and then there is bad luck. The best solution I have heard is to use edge as written above. Although I thought the "Hand of God" rule burned all your edge. (I have no BBB at work, so I can't look it up.)

"Escape Certain Death" is available to PC's, and requires burning a single point of edge.
"Hand of God" is available to NPC's and requires burning all remaining edge.

I would look at replacing his dice. Not because of superstition. But because they are producing results so far from the statistical norms as to suggest a manufacturing defect.
In your first example, you are describing a 1 in 300,000 shot, followed by a 1 in 40,000 shot, followed by a 1 in 100,000,000 million shot (I have rounded these odds up slightly in the calculation mechanism.

Way over on your last one - haven't bothered checking the first two, but I find them unlikely as well.

[IQ Zero]

We use only one set of dice on the table, mine, so I know that they are balanced, and rolled in the dice box using a dice cup. As for fudging (as GM) I do the attack rolls openly to prevent player complaints of fudging in favor of one or the other, (as Player) I know he likes his characters, he designs each one with 2 or 3 pages of background including "standard operating equipment" sets for standard, meet, run (combat heavy), run (infiltration), etc etc. He keeps track of all the bullets he uses (as well as the other PCs since he is more than mildly OC). 9 characters in 9 runs (12 sessions) just seems excessive losses to me. He even keeps a file on his dead characters.

As an example, on the last run, after the team has suffered extensive damage, his character (at the time) was a long range sniper and the vehicle specialist (non-rigger). He was driving the van through a chain-link fence, I figured 2 successes would be more than enough for him to get through (10 reaction + 4 Drive) and he rolls 10 ones and no successes, uses edge (he had 2 only since he was human and he figures it never saves him anyway) to reroll. 13 ones and 1 success, rerolling again, he ends up with 14 ones. (The odds are so near ridiculous that its insane). So he enters into a slide and ends up smashing into a fuel truck (14 ones out of 14 dice, that's pretty critical glitch to me). Fried Sniper

As for the "Hand of God/Escape certain Death" rules, the group voted to not allow it so that the GM (me right now) can't use that rule either. They figure a dead enemy is a good enemy.

Perhaps I should allow other players to roll for him?

[JoelHalpern]

... [Commenting on my numbers you said]
Way over on your last one - haven't bothered checking the first two, but I find them unlikely as well.

The last one I had entered as 100,000,00 million. That contained a typo and an error. The correct value is 1 in 10,000,000 which is still so absurd as to suggest a problem with the dice. (Sorry about rushing the one value I had done in my head with confirming the combinatorixs.)
The others actually slightly over-estimate the chance of the combination, because I simply use 2/3 for the chance of a miss ignoring that fact that the OP stated that those dice were not 1s. (That means the odds of the 7 1s and two misses include the subcases of 1s and 9 1s, but since the odds are very small even with that over-estimate, it seems clearer that way.)

Joel

PS: Looking at the OPs additional comments, all I can suggest is looking for other factors. You do not get those kinds of rolls that often. If he can really roll 1s that often, go to Vegas and bet the do-not-pass line. Then ask the Vegas folks to please tell you how he was doing it when they come for a quiet conversation.

[IQ Zero]

PS: Looking at the OPs additional comments, all I can suggest is looking for other factors. You do not get those kinds of rolls that often. If he can really roll 1s that often, go to Vegas and bet the do-not-pass line. Then ask the Vegas folks to please tell you how he was doing it when they come for a quiet conversation.

I'm sorry, but his luck with dice is just that, all bad. Regardless of game system, GURPS (high roll is bad), D&D, BattleTech, Vampyre/Werewolf. I've been playing with this guy for 12 years, he does play well, its just that all dice seem to hate him.

Oh, yes, we tried him in Macau casinos. We recouped our flight and hotel expenses when he played roulette, but he was useless in craps.

[Muspellsheimr]

The last one I had entered as 100,000,00 million.

EDIT: My calculations were off - it is indeed 1 in 10,077,696 for 9 ones in 9 dice. I had based it off my calculations for number of hits, and failed to take into account the exponential nature when converting it to number of 1's.

[Dashifen]

I'm sorry, but his luck with dice is just that, all bad. Regardless of game system, GURPS (high roll is bad), D&D, BattleTech, Vampyre/Werewolf. I've been playing with this guy for 12 years, he does play well, its just that all dice seem to hate him.

My luck is like this actually. Good for the players, bad for my psyche. I'll frequently roll 50% 1's or higher on tests with DPs greater than 10. For a while, I was chalking it up to the fact that I roll more often than the average player, being the GM, and thus would tend to seem more glitches, but after reading this thread, I wonder ....... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Stahlseele]

I'm sorry, but his luck with dice is just that, all bad. Regardless of game system, GURPS (high roll is bad), D&D, BattleTech, Vampyre/Werewolf. I've been playing with this guy for 12 years, he does play well, its just that all dice seem to hate him.

Oh, yes, we tried him in Macau casinos. We recouped our flight and hotel expenses when he played roulette, but he was useless in craps.

try die-roller-tool on laptop . . if virtual dice hate him too, he should thnk about other games where dice are not involved *g*

[MaxHunter]

or have someone else roll dice for him... I still believe Lady Luck will not be fooled so easily.

I had a similar experience recently. Runners were escaping in a helicopter in the alps. The helo caught fire and the rigger failed his crash test; "Jump!" Fortunately, the runners had the parachuting skill and parachutes on. I allowed them to jump before the chopper crashed. Most succeeded but one of the runners failed his parachuting roll (0 hits). Edged and failed again. I described the floor coming to him very fast and allowed a second roll before impact. (GM grace) He rolled again and failed again. Edged again and got a critical glitch. =(

The whole helicopter situation came from players` inspiration and planning, they had prepared and had thought of parachutes beforehand and all, and I really felt that character should not die just because of miserable bad luck.

The char "escaped certain death" and survived a 3500m fall in the mountains. He was rescued by BuMoNA and treated under his platinum contract which included free resuscitation service. He came out of coma a couple months later. The doctors included ceramic bone lacing in the treatment.

"It was close, we had to rebuild him" they told his partners.

Cheers,

Max

[Cthulhudreams]

Two suggestions

A) Don't roll for shit like rappelling if they have any skills at all. Unless they are being shot at. Dying like that is just anticlimatic, so what possible good outcome can come from rolling?

B) Thats what burning a point of permenante edge is for.

Then if the guy keeps sucking due to losing edge, slide him more gear to make up for it. If he's a sniper, he gets hired to steal X, and right next to X there is a fully tricked out rifle, wash rinse and repeat for whatever your guy does.

shout get him back on track.

[Cang]

Well, what i would do as a GM in that situation is fry him when his rolls come out crit glitch but don't kill the poor bastard. In some ways something less then death can be worst then death for the player. Have he out till he can get medical care, with a time line for the players to get him out of there. Have him lose a limb, essence, cyber, magic point, eye, flaw, ect. The player gets his glitch, you have a happy player with an interesting story and you can progress your metaplot and perhaps progress the characters. Having a new runner in ever game can get pretty old for the players and the GM.

--Cang

[kanislatrans]

Speaking for myself, as someone who once rolled 34 dice needing only one 6 and failed, I can relate. The gm was nice though and my mage only lost an arm and a magic point. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

I can accept it though. As an old Seneca once told me" Sometimes you eat the bear, sometimes the bear eats you, and sometimes you both go hungry. It is just the way of things."