Knowsofts, more detail Options

[Riley37]

The group I play in (myself, WeaverMount, Stormcrow, MasterofM) had some conversation on knowsofts, starting with a proposal for some limits on slotting multiple knowsofts, and here's a few of our thoughts:

"Would a numerical, stat-linked limit on skillsofts help us tell a better story? Would it more closely model the effects of the imaginary tech? I think LOG would correlate somewhat with the ability to keep up with switches; you're discussing the forensic analysis of a blast site using your Explosive Compounds soft, then you look up some info from your Terrorist Organizations soft (eg which groups often use explodite-37), and in that moment you forget which chemicals you were talking about just a minute ago. Perhaps you insta-bookmarked it, and you can pull up the page with those chemicals highlighted. But perhaps you weren't that methodical."

"I think a datasoft is like sitting on top of a database or wikipedia.  when you want to know something, you've got to look it up.  a knowsoft is like having an expert system doing the searching for you.  when you want to know something, it's there."

"All you need to load knowsofts is a comlink and a DNI. The number of programs that can be run on the device connected to your DNI is the only limit."

"all you have to do is take a moment to stroke your beard, look thoughtful, and then you can talk knowledgeably on the next topic. highly interdisciplinary discussions could be tough."

[Moon-Hawk]

"all you have to do is take a moment to stroke your beard, look thoughtful, and then you can talk knowledgeably on the next topic. highly interdisciplinary discussions could be tough."

True, but it's not like you'd be fooling many people that you're a genius, I mean they'd likely have access to the same knowledge bases and will realize you're just regurgitating knowsoft info, just like we can tell on Dumpshock when someone is reading a Wikipedia entry and pretending to be an expert. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[Stahlseele]

"All you need to load knowsofts is a comlink and a DNI. The number of programs that can be run on the device connected to your DNI is the only limit."

no, not really . . you need a display, as the metahuman brain can not understand wiki-like knowledge . . that's the difference between know and skill-soft . .
for knowsoft you need a display to show you the coloums . . in SR3 there was the knowsoft-connection option for chipjacks . .

[Moon-Hawk]

no, not really . . you need a display, as the metahuman brain can not understand wiki-like knowledge . . that's the difference between know and skill-soft . .
for knowsoft you need a display to show you the coloums . . in SR3 there was the knowsoft-connection option for chipjacks . .

I think you're confused. Knowsofts are a type of skill soft, and do not require a display. You're thinking of datasofts.

[Stahlseele]

ack, yes, of course . . you're right . . i confused those two . . i'm at work, my brain's at home <.< . .

[Moon-Hawk]

ack, yes, of course . . you're right . . i confused those two . . i'm at work, my brain's at home <.< . .

No problem. I'd guess you got confused because I was the one who started likening knowsofts to Wikipedia, which is admittedly more comparable to a datasoft than a knowsoft. I was just making the point that I think that even if someone is using a knowsoft to spout out information and not reading something verbatim from a datasoft, I would think that other people familiar with the same or similar knowledge bases (because they have the same datasoft, too, most likely) or people who are genuinely knowledgeable in the field, would be able to pick up on the fact that the person is using a knowsoft.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

By RAW, a Knowsoft needs to be accessed through either a Datajack or Sim Module.
Like any Skillsoft, it will provide a genuine skill with restrictions on Edge use.

In fact, the number of Knowsofts used at the same time has no hard limit.

[masterofm]

Page reference on the fact that there is no limit on knowsofts? I thought it just does not say one way or the other about it. The rules, from what I gathered, don't really go into great detail on what happens when you try to use 5 knowsofts at the same time.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

Indeed - the rules don't limit them.

[The Jopp]

Unwired talk about the TM ability to adopt software and with the Biowire Echo they can use Skillsoft - but can they use Knowsoft/datasoft from start as CF since they dont require Skillwire/Biowire?

[Rotbart van Dain...]

I take it you mean Knowsoft/Linguasoft.

Technically, to convert any kind of Skillsoft, they need the Biowire Echo first.
Once they have it, of course, they can take Knowsoft/Linguasoft without any restrictions.

[Tarantula]

Actually, they don't need anything to use knowsoft/linguasofts. The requirements are to access them via DNI and a sim module. Technos have those built in, they just need to have the know/lingua softs on their commlink or some form of storage and they are free to use them. As far as learning them as a complex form, by the book, they can't.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

The can emulate every skillsoft once they got biowire by RAW.
And skillsoft break down to activesoft, knowsoft and linguasoft.

[Tarantula]

The can emulate every skillsoft once they got biowire by RAW.
And skillsoft break down to activesoft, knowsoft and linguasoft.

Right.. but the options are, access the know/lingua soft... or, emulate it, do a threading test, and resist fading damage, just so they are running the soft in their head instead of off a chip, or pay karma equal to rating to learn it.
Why waste karma when they can run it for no penalty off the soft itself?

[Zaranthan]

Because commlinks suck more than a hooker on payday? I spent hundreds of BP to become a Technomancer, I'm not using that bucket of bolts for anything beyond ID.

[CanRay]

Because commlinks suck more than a hooker on payday?

I love how Dumpshock is so family friendly. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Moon-Hawk]

I love how Dumpshock is so family friendly. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Sure, it's funny and educational for the children, and the adults find it funny too! It's like a Pixar movie! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[Tarantula]

Because commlinks suck more than a hooker on payday? I spent hundreds of BP to become a Technomancer, I'm not using that bucket of bolts for anything beyond ID.

Techno's don't need a commlink, just some kind of storage to put the soft on. Buy a 10Â¥ datachip, and keep it on hand. Problem solved.

[masterofm]

piffft that just makes all kinds of too much sense.

My argument about the softs was that I find that it would be nice to have a kind of hard cap as it can be subject to abuse when using them a little to actively. It's kind of like the argument against hack-a-stack. I mean it is not insane, but at the same time you can cover an insane amount of knowledge fields for not too much money and suddenly be a pro at everything logic oriented that you encounter. If there are any knowledge holes because of inexperience they can go on the net and buy quite a lot of it online.

[Tarantula]

And whats wrong with that? Is it a bad thing for characters to KNOW THINGS?

[Rotbart van Dain...]

If there are any knowledge holes because of inexperience they can go on the net and buy quite a lot of it online.

Welcome to the information age.

[masterofm]

Well I guess I will never get logic based knowledge backgrounds ever again then. = / That just feels wrong to me for some reason.

[Tarantula]

Why not? You get free points at chargen to get knowledge skills with.

[CanRay]

And whats wrong with that? Is it a bad thing for characters to KNOW THINGS?

I don't know, let's ask Mr. Corporation.

"You don't need to know anything save what we tell you. We'll do the thinking for you."

See, it's a bad thing for us to know things. The Corporations are looking after us.

[Tarantula]

Great answer for Joe Wageslave. Now why should a character (who is typically a shadowrunner) NOT know things?