In defense of the three worlds Options

[sunnyside]

People complain about the matrix/magic/physical worlds all being present in Shadowrun. But personally I rather like that they're there.

1. This is a game for adults. Much of the content gets NC17 fast. I understand it may take a bit but the GM will get the rules figured out, and enough players should be able to handle it.

2. It keeps the players from stepping on each others toes. This was a big problem, in my experience, for a number of other games, especially those in genre. If you have 5 players in CP2020 you probably have 3 solos and 2 people that are going to be frustrated. In SR a Hacker and spellcaster should be indespensable and they don't generally get in anyones way, or outshine someone at what they thought they were good at.

3. Nice for writing. The information a hacker can get and the things they can do allow for many more reasonable plots. Ditto for magic. I generally find they make the game much less contrived.

[Rasumichin]

People complain about the matrix/magic/physical worlds all being present in Shadowrun.

Do they?
Never heard people complain about that personally.

IMO, the inclusion of the matrix and astral space add a lot to the game, not only because they facilitate specific spotlight time for various characters, but also because they can add nicely to the complexity of the game and open up new strategic possibilities.

Difficulties may arise when switching between layers of the game, but they are manageable, especially since Hackers and riggers are less likely to just sit in the commando van in SR4.

If the full scope of the rules is applied, SR is basically a game centering around access to various levels of perception, as especially sams are likely to run around with extensive senseware packages and even mundanes will be able to constantly switch between various sensory inputs.

I'd advise every GM to strongly emphasize this aspect, as it is a key discerning feature of SR.

This isn't D&D where specific characters will merely be able to see a bit farther under shady illumination.
In D&D, strategy centers around bringing the whole group to work together on one battlefield, which would not work out as well in a setting where meatshields are faced with the problem of a dominance of ranged weapons that would make their job of hindering enemies from reaching the mage and cleric nearly impossible.
Under such circumstances, strategic challenges for the group have to revolve around other aspects.
Guns completely change the meaning of battlefield control.
And that's why the combination of physical, virtual and astral world is so crucial to SR.

In SR, strategy centers around controlling perception of and access to various levels of a manyfold, quasi-multidimensional battlefield.


On top of that, you get the complexity of modern societies and their social networks, which are much less elaborate and volatile in the pseudo-medieval societies of classic fantasy RPGs.
SR can be demanding ruleswise, but to me, it was always worth the effort.

[nezumi]

I think the problem with three worlds is that they were so mutually exclusive. You'd spend half an hour with the mage, half an hour with the decker, then get back to the 'real world'. SR4 went a long way to fix that, and frankly, a lot of the real-time, AR decking stuff I'd like to pull back and apply to SR3.

[sunnyside]

a lot of the real-time, AR decking stuff I'd like to pull back and apply to SR3.

Oh absolutely. I run a game set in the early 2050's, but I still use SR4 hacking. What would take a half hour or more in SR1/SR2 takes a couple minutes, there is more to do, you can do it wirelessly, and if you lose your comlink/deck it actually works out fine buying a new one instead of your best move being suicide followed by creating a new char who has a deck.

Even if you really want to have deckers just use the SR4 rules, and have big honken comlinks with fibre connections.

[sunnyside]

a lot of the real-time, AR decking stuff I'd like to pull back and apply to SR3.

Oh absolutely. I run a game set in the early 2050's, but I still use SR4 hacking. What would take a half hour or more in SR1/SR2 takes a couple minutes, there is more to do, you can do it wirelessly, and if you lose your comlink/deck it actually works out fine buying a new one instead of your best move being suicide followed by creating a new char who has a deck.

Even if you really want to have deckers just use the SR4 rules, and have big honken comlinks with fibre connections.

[Sir_Psycho]

Yeah, it's complicated (as I'm finding teaching SR to a group of 5 (only 3 of which have any PnP RPG experience), but I think it makes for an ultimately more compelling game and it encourages diversity, which makes the teamwork element of shadowrun so great, you're vulnerable without all your team members and their specialisations.

[Isath]

Urm... if you find SR (especially SR4) complicated... what have you been playing? I mean ok, there are games that reduce your Charakter sheet to three stats or such, but aside from the super simplistic rules SR4 is almost as easy as it gets (with rules). When I think of my experiences with the cancer games it makes my skin crawl. Everytime I thought that I got how it works, I stood to be corrected, that ruke xy is working that way only on tuesdays, every second odd week or if there is three slices of pizza near the table and only one of them has salami on them. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif) The character design was awful aswell. It is a masterpiece of adding complexity without depth. Erm... sorry for rambling about that stuff, that always seems to happen when I start thinking about that system. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Shadowrun is fine. It can be dice heavy and has some balance issues, as most games do, but it is fine.

Having the three layers, may lead to split scenarios or waiting teammembers, but it has become easy enough to manage that and keep things together most of the time. Also I like every teammember to have his or her specialty and this system provides 3 layers, that easily provide a multitude of those.