Pirated software at chargen, a quick question. Options

[Aurelius]

I havent been able to find an answer in the rules on whether you can buy pirated software at 10% normal price from the cracker underground at character generation. It seems like it would make quite a difference for hacker characters [would also make skillwires a lot more fun, btw]

Anyone knows?

[Drogos]

I would say that's a GMs call. I generally do not allow a decrease in cost at character generation. Too much monkeying with the numbers leads to munchinism and power gaming (I should know, that's what I do all the time when making a character). I don't believe there is any RAW for pirated software, second hand cyberware, used equipment, etc. at character generation. Really, character creation is completely by GM fiat anyways and RAW is just a guideline for that part.

[sunnyside]

No, I wouldn't allow pirated software and chargen for much the same reason I wouldn't allow a player to use the black market price modifiers found in the BBB.

For one there is the balance issue. But stuff at chargen is considered "clean." Part of the deal with the other stuff is that there are risks and history involved that can make up for the reduced price.

[Ryu]

Yes, I consider cracked software to be a completely different commodity than legal software. You can buy it at chargen. But it my game you could also have all open source programs at rating 4...

Chargen software prices are a balance problem. Hacker buys, team says "Give!". Cheaper software = less of a problem.

[Rad]

No, I wouldn't allow pirated software and chargen for much the same reason I wouldn't allow a player to use the black market price modifiers found in the BBB.

For one there is the balance issue. But stuff at chargen is considered "clean." Part of the deal with the other stuff is that there are risks and history involved that can make up for the reduced price.

With pirated software the risks are decreased effectiveness, because they don't get the patches registered software does. (Rating degrades at 1 point/2 months, 1/month for hacking software) Per unwired, normal software purchased at chargen is actually less clean, because it leaves a datatrail--lowerng the threshold to track you and raising your threshold to edit logs by 1 per registered program used.

The black market price modifiers represent the gamble of fencing/purchasing things illegally, while pirated software has a built-in downside for it's reduced price (the black market modifiers probably still apply, in fact.) At chargen, that element of chance is waved in favor of predictable character balance, similar to how spirits bound at chargen always have a force equal to your magic. That doesn't mean you came by all your gear legally--especially your fake SINs and other forbidden items.

[Fuchs]

There's no reason to use legal software to hack at all, you have to use software that doesn't get official patches unless you like leaving datatrails. I don't see why anyone hacking should buy legal software at chargen if they can't use it anyway.

[Rad]

It's an example of new-book retcons screwing with the way things work. When I wrote the character I'm using now, my agent program could hack and use attack programs to function as an IC. Thanks to unwired, I'm 2k short of an "unrestricted agent" that can use hacking programs, and the availibility increase means I couldn't have gotten it at chargen without the restricted gear quality anyway.

[Matsci]

It's an example of new-book retcons screwing with the way things work. When I wrote the character I'm using now, my agent program could hack and use attack programs to function as an IC. Thanks to unwired, I'm 2k short of an "unrestricted agent" that can use hacking programs, and the availibility increase means I couldn't have gotten it at chargen without the restricted gear quality anyway.

After all, it's not like you have a GM that gives out wayyyyy to much nuyen, and would never ever also overlook something like this.

[Rad]

Eh, we had a big group that night, and I was still calculating my gear right up to the last minute. Besides, I only used Brutus to hack once--and then just to steal a few k from a coffeeshop. I haven't used any of his hacking programs since I read Unwired.

And I wouldn't say that you give out too much nuyen--just that we seem to complete the high-paying jobs with flying colors that should've gotten us killed or forced us to walk away. I guess that's "player edge" in action. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Fuchs]

My main problem with the legla programs is that for a hacker, buying them makes no sense. They'll still have to forego autopatches, since they need "clean" programs for hacking, so they are struck with buying pirate patches. So, why should they pay 10 times the price at chargen for something they can't use?

[crizh]

I don't think it really matters. Most GM's assume that your Resources represents the value of all the things you have at chargen, regardless of how you acquired them, rather than a pool of real money that you have spent. Most Hackers I've played paid full-price for programs they coded themselves.

On the other hand you are just as well to allow cracked programs at cracked prices because the average Hacker is just going to immediately download everything he needs at the reduced price with his starting cash. He can ignore the availability cap that way also.

[Floyd]

I once wrote the people at the Catalyst Game Labs about a starting character with the Increased Response Chips already installed into a comlink, starting the game with a modified response stat. They wrote back to me that if the GM allows it, The character should roll the Hardware check to install the chip, once the character is finished but before introduction. If the character succeeds, he's got the modified com. If not, he's got the pieces but not the finished product. I have extended so characters with contacts who can also perform the appropriate skill could get the starting bonus.

I don't have the books with me, but isn't there a computer roll to find these illegal programs? I imagine that a character could gamble his premise on a roll at the end of character creation, if the GM allows, for the attempt to get pirated software.

[Ol' Scratch]

That's silly. It's like requiring an Armorer roll during character creation to attach an Internal Smartgun System to your Colt Manhunter. It's likewise silly to require a hacker start the game with programs that will likely get them busted the first time they use them just because Some Guy decided to change the rules about how things work.

'Course, I let players start with characters using pretty much any customization they like. If they're wasting resources on that stuff, they're missing out on something else. That's the entire point of a build-point/karma-based system. If you consider something "unbalanced," then it should be "unbalanced" both before and after the game starts, not just beforehand.

[Floyd]

Degrading software is a pain in the ass. Spells don't degrade, and bullets and cyberware have a shelf life of very much over a month. As for the idea of a roll before playing: I was just passing on what was passed to me. I really don't know what I would do until I do it, I'll know Friday, maybe.