Character Depth without the Angst/Emo Options Track this topic Email this topic Print this topic Download this topic Subscribe to this forum Display Modes Switch to: Outline Standard Switch to: Linear+

[sunnyside]

I think I blame many modern writers. I've recently started GMing for some younger Gamers (high schoolers) and they seem to default to angst/emo stuff for character depth.

Of course there are lots of other ways to add character depth. In Shadowrun a healthy relationship or good trait is odd enough to add some surprising depth. There are plenty of ways to be disfunctional and there is always the more hardboiled self loathing that you cope with using a stiff jaw and scotch. Or having something to be passionate about. Living style over substance. And so on.

The question is how to "sell" that to players and get them to do it well, especially "kids" who only know hardboiled as it pertains to eggs, haven't read anything cyberpunk yet, but have read some Drek called "Twighlight" .

(As a side note I think some also try to use being antisocial, a loner, or psychopathic for character depth, but really these are just standard 2D trenchcoater fare.)

[Cain]

That's probably due to the age of your players. There's a reason why the angsty teen stereotype manages to endure.

You have a unique opportunity here. You have the chance to teach these kids how to roleplay. I suggest you approach it like teaching them how to act. Have them start with one or two defining characteristics of their character, and revolve everything else around that. Show them how to take a piece of themselves, and exaggerate it, to create a different character. If you know it, try teaching them Method acting.

[sunnyside]

For their age they aren't bad at roleplaying. That isn't the issue. It's that what the choose to roleplay revolves around angst/emo and all to similar themes.

Hence why part of my question is how to "sell" other styles/personalities.

The other key part being how to get them to do something else well instead of it falling flat (I suppose something like Method might help there).

[Fuchs]

Check some TV and anime series, and see if you find some non-emo characters they might like.

Possible non-emo role models for Shadowrunners:

City Hunter:
Ryo Saeba
Umibozu

Angel Heart:
Glass Heart

Full Metal Panic:
Sousuke Sagara
Kurtz
Sergeant Major Mao

[Wesley Street]

Have them read William S. Burroughs or watch modern film noir movies like Memento or Salton Sea. There's tons of countercultural material out there for the budding (post)cyberpunk fan. If you want to keep kids from playing stereotypical characters you need to pull them away from the Blade Runner and Matrix-esque stuff.

[TheOOB]

The funny thing is that people often times use angst and emo characters as a way to avoid role playing, whether or not they know it. Tell me whats easier, making a good, believable back story and personality for your character, and thinking about how they would react to each situation based on previous experience, or coming up with some generic story about loss and angst and having the character react the same way to everything?

As mentioned above, suggest that they base their characters on a character they like. I've based characters off of Firefly, Ghost in the Shell, Outlaw Star, Cowboy Bebop, Indiana Jones, even X-Files. While they still need to work to make their character unique, having a good archtype to base yourself off of helps the process.

[Wounded Ronin]

Make them make Golgo 13 ripoffs.

[Stahlseele]

asshole characters.
seriously, the way to go O.o
nothing bad happening in the past, just growing up and having been born with a mean streak.
just be mean for the hell of it. have fun being mean. don't whine about all the world being bad.
don't be mean because you want your revenge against some wrong that happened to you . . .
tragical background sadly is the easiest to write somehow.
'cause revenge is as good a reason to go into the shadows as anything else . .
but try to come up with a background for some jolly good old nice fella with a good sense of humor and nothing really bad happening to him being in the shadows . .
not born poor having to endure some hardships, never knew anything else . . just happy go lucky character that is an active shadowrunner . . if you can come up with
such a backgroundstory, i am SO stealing it . .

[WeaverMount]

>or coming up with some generic story about loss and angst

This is a good point. To that end the characters have to have something that they care about. New players don't want to write that into there characters for couple reasons. Caring makes you vulnerable, and that doesn't jibe with the power fantasy. So you do a little judo and make get them to justify there numbers. Feng Shui of all sources gave me a great bit of advice on getting past that. Point out that it is imposable to get and maintain world class skills in a vacuum. Make them roll up the the gang where they learned there fighting skills and the Prime Runner Evil Sith mentor prime runner who trained them from in there two 5 or a 6 and then fell out some how. Then get the player to round out the community the character uses to maintain the skill and you get both a source of friends plausible contacts, and something they care able with out feeling saddled with a permanent umbrella mission like a kid sister or something.

Second witting up friends, families, ex's, passions, and betrayals takes a knowledge of the setting green RPers don't have. A pinky/Trog Romio and Juliet angle would make for some great Shadow Run, but no noob is going to write that up without help because they don't know there is a lot to mine there. Give there age and experience your players are likely a little afraid of looking dumb by writing up elements that not compatible with cannon, or are just irrelevant.

Lastly, and this is more general advice, people do the best they know at everything they care about. If you want your players to RP better look for what is stopping them from RPing better and remove it.

[Zombayz]

I've never had this problem, but then again, my players are oddballs, as am I. And even the emo kid doesn't make emo characters

[TKDNinjaInBlack]

Try telling them to model character's after a personality they would like to play in a team setting rather than focusing on a backstory. Sometimes a personality and chemistry fulfilling a certain outlook or counter outlook in a team setting is really useful. Get the player who models his hacker after Tommy Chong who instead of being blown out of his mind from pot, is an aging hippy who lost some brain cells from BTLs "back in the day." Get a player to a dumb "Kung Fool" expert who is so dumb he pipes up and says ridiculous things that everybody knows they could never ever do or listen to, but they keep the dude around because he is handy in a pinch. Have them watch a lot of stereotypical action movies and make them fulfill roles from one of those. Hell, whenever someone new starts in our group, we always like them to model their character's personality after some actor or character they can emulate.

[krayola red]

Bah, back when I was that age, half of my characters were orphans whose parents got killed in some gruesome manner or another. The other half were superpowered genetic experiments who never had parents in the first place. You tend to grow out of it after awhile. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Anyway, as a GM, you can always introduce them to some cool NPCs who aren't all angsty and emo, just to show them that it's possible to be an interesting person without harboring a burning hatred for all of existence. Playing up on relationships between characters is a good way to show them that a PC without any attachments is, quite frankly, kinda boring to play.

[Mickle5125]

but try to come up with a background for some jolly good old nice fella with a good sense of humor and nothing really bad happening to him being in the shadows . .
not born poor having to endure some hardships, never knew anything else . . just happy go lucky character that is an active shadowrunner . . if you can come up with
such a backgroundstory, i am SO stealing it . .

My elf gun-bunny, Kerrigan, is a hyperactive goth who's only running in the shadows because it's something to do. She was trained in her magic to be a bodyguard, but was told to go off to gain some real world experience before she'll be allowed to be a full partner.

[TheOOB]

I actually usually run new players through a game of 7th Sea before I send them through another game system like D&D, nWoD, or of course, Shadowrun(yes I play a lot of game systems). The system has a number of mechanics in it to encourage good role playing. First there is the drama dice system, which encourages players to stick their neck out and do crazy awesome things. There is also a backround system in which you create various bad things about your character(old rivals, lost loves, hidden identities, weaknesses, bad guys who want you dead, people you want to kill, and so on) and you gain extra XP when they become part of a plot.

I've done similar things in shadowrun, rewarding good roleplaying by refreshing an edge or two(though what kind of role playing I reward differs in shadowrun then from a system based on 17th century pirate action drama), and rewarding an extra karma or two in a run focuses on a character and their background. So if you build a runner with a little sister dependent, sure that's a weakness, but when it comes time to save her, you might come out a little stronger for it. It's enough to encourage role playing, without making people who are bad at role playing feel punished.

[crash2029]

One of my favorite characters, Car, is a well-adjusted, good spirited guy who runs the shadows because he wants to. When he was growing up in the Baltimore suburbs, in an upper middle class family, he and his sister really loved watching old flatvids. He got it into his head to be James Bond. Therefore he worked extra jobs, studied hard, and used his savings and college fund to fund training and minor augmentation in order to become a shadowrunner. When he thought he was ready he moved to Seattle and did his best to infiltrate the 'runner scene. He succeeded. Of course, he discovered that it's not all fun and excitement, but he stuck with it. Eventually after living through Survival of the Fittest he retired from shadowrunning and went into fixing. Today he is a major fixer with international connections and works with the best the shadows have to offer.

So there, Stahlseele, I already had a nice guy with a nice background, a good sense of humor and a strong moral code who ended up in the shadows. Although many would point out that someone with those resources seeking out a life of danger and pain have a few screws loose, I would have to agree. He does have a few screws loose. I would contend that anyone wanting to be a career soldier in the Special Forces similarly has a few screws loose. After all, it takes all kinds.

[TheOOB]

It should be noted, that while overly angsty/emo characters are annoying, that doesn't mean that all characters with a tragic past are bad character designs. The fact is, if you are living the UCAS dream, you most likely are not going to take to the shadows. Unless you are some rich corp kid who wants to find some excitement, something beyond your control probably put you in the shadows. The character who's family was killed by a Red Samurai raid, the rich entrepreneur who lost it all in the crash, a sprawl ganger who lost their arm in a gang war, when all his buddies lost their life. These are all promising character backstories all of which would be profoundly affected by the tragedy in their lives. The key thing is that they have lives though, they do more then just brood about their crappy past, they have likes and dislikes, goals and fears, they look to the future as well as the past, whether it's just to get enough money for that wiz new cybergun, or to finally find homes for all the orphened children they had been supporting by running.

I could write an entire essay on making good character concepts(and I might someday), they key thing to remember is that no good character is every built with one dimension, just like real people, good characters have many dimensions, and they don't always make perfect sense.

[Blade]

Exactly. The problem with emo character is not that they have a tragic past or that they aren't happy or even that they listen to The Cure. The problem is that it's their only characteristic.

It's the same problem with cybered killing machines and mysterious mages: you can't be a killing machine or a mysterious guy all the time. My rule of thumb: if you can't imagine your character going to the laundromat or the stuffer shack, then he's lacking depth.

[sunnyside]

My rule of thumb: if you can't imagine your character going to the laundromat or the stuffer shack, then he's lacking depth.

I like that. Punchy.

To the people advocating relationships. I actually do that. The romantic interest is probably at this point my default thing to develop a bad roleplayer. The problem here being that their emo/angst books/whatever feature lots of relationships and all too often the relationship is used as an angst soundboard.

Also if I haven't said it I do forum games and this one has to stay PG/PG-13 tops. Which limits me more than I expected...


Thanks for a number of the resources/shows mentioned.

Also I generally agree with TheOOB. Most runners have a screw loose or some major issue, possibly a troubled past of some kind. But even James Bond had the classic orphan background and you don't get much less emo than Bond. But the same deal for a lot of contemporary characters.

[TKDNinjaInBlack]

I always try to make my players give me (as GM) something to work with and exercise their past and current relationships. Give me a reason you have those skills, and while you're at it, give me a couple contacts that you knew from that part of your life. In fact, give me at least one contact from all the different jobs you had (exaggerating). I'll make sure for whatever reason your old high school nerd buddy pops up and want's to hang to kill your one dimensional angsty emo mood.

[Aaron]

Somebody should come up with a list of questions one could answer to give their characters more depth. Maybe like twenty of them. =i)

Seriously, though, if the Twenty Questions in whichever edition of Shadowrun you prefer is inadequate to your needs, I suggest taking a look at the Character Quiz in Phage Press's Amber Diceless game. Good stuff there.

[sunnyside]

Somebody should come up with a list of questions one could answer to give their characters more depth. Maybe like twenty of them. =i)

Seriously, though, if the Twenty Questions in whichever edition of Shadowrun you prefer is inadequate to your needs, I suggest taking a look at the Character Quiz in Phage Press's Amber Diceless game. Good stuff there.

Again the problem is in how they'd answer them. Again these people want to have character depth, and try to add it. They just seem to feel that depth=angst.

[TheOOB]

Besides, the questions don't in and of themselves add depth. They help to set up a basic personality and backround but they really don't serve the answer the question "How does my character react to this given situation" if anything they are best to show other people so they understand a bit about your character.

[Heath Robinson]

Direct them to media with better writing? It's not like you're doing this in meatspace, where you could force them to watch something.

[Whipstitch]

A couple of good superstitions and some religion can help define a character pretty quickly. It's the Sixth World, after all; a healthy fear of large black cats isn't entirely unreasonable anymore.

[Fortune]

I don't really see the problem with letting a person play the character they want to play. I mean sure, you might find it less than ideal, or only two-dimensional, but if the player is having fun and getting what they want out of the game, why should you force them to add 'depth' they don't want to add, or become 'more creative' with their characterizations?

In my opinion, it is best to just let the player play the game the way they want to play it. Most players will evolve naturally themselves, especially when exposed to other players who put a lot of 'depth' into their own characters, or even better, a GM who isn't afraid to pour on the characterizations in the social scenes, and plays up the day-to-day life of the PCs. I don't feel that there is a need to 'teach' players to be better role-players, or force them into playing characterizations they don't really feel comfortable with, or aren't ready for themselves.

[masterofm]

The best answer is the question why? If they can't answer Why then their character does not have a back story.

One of my characters has abandonment issues. Why? Because he went on a run and way betrayed by one of the team. He spent three years in jail for it and was sprung on an extraction mission led by the fixer who regarded him as a son. He is slow to trust, and fiercely loyal. Bamn if you can't answer the why or the how then you have a bad backstory.

[ElFenrir]

Also keep in mind with the whole angst/emo thing, there is a difference between ''emo'' and actual ''tragedy''. There is nothing, IMO, wrong with a tragedy in a character's past-hell, it sucks but most real-life people have a piece of tragedy or two in their past-death of a parent, friend or sibling, a long marriage ending, massive falling out with an old friend that turned ugly, etc. Some of these things can, and do, add depth to a character.

One of my own favorite characters, a sorta repo-man named Leon Sparta, does have a bit of tragedy in his far past which explains some of the things he does now-but generally, he's actually quite a good-natured guy, willing to help in ways that he can, which usually means hitting things very, very hard, lifting them, or throwing them(and while he's very cunning-he's a bit dim. It adds to his general likability; i found.) Hell, Ive had my friends tell me to play him, because they like the character so much; he's just a big, kinda lunk-headed womanizing prettyboy who likes to drink and pick up girls at a bar, but there is a lot more to him underneath, and a little of the tragedy that happened to him in his youth did help shape it.

Some tragedy sprinkled about can explain things and actually add a little bit of realism if you want it(it's a rarity for someone to have lived a 100% super-perfect happy life, IMO, unfortunately), but I admit there comes a time where it can go overboard(to ''emo-land.'' as people like to say. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) )

[Whipstitch]

It's also hard to have a 100% super happy life that leads to you being a criminal for hire with magical powers or cybernetic implants. Shadowrunning is not a good enviroment for those who value honesty and healthy, stable relationships. Life is already about compromise even for normal people with normal problems. The Sixth World, unfortunately, is in large part defined by its hard truths.

[ElFenrir]

I think the key is balancing the angst/tragedy to a point where it's not ''oh, god. another person whose entire family was killed in a drop bear attack, whose wife was eaten by a giant squid, his second wife commiting suicide after she lost all of their money, and he had to sell his own limbs and get cyber replacements because he got more money selling his regular limbs than he had to pay for the cyber. Oh, his enemy also killed his little dog too'' nor is it ''100% happy fun club, all the time!''

[shuya]

while i agree that using angst as your only character hook is lame, as others have said, it does have its place, where one is not likely to find themselves in the position of listing "criminal" as their profession without SOME wrong turns in your past. my current character is an orphan (de-facto "orphaned" at 13, anyway) who grew up in the barrens. which is a REALLY stereotypical shadowrunner backstory, yes, but a lot of the character inspiration comes from a friend of mine who was abandoned by her parents when she was 13, and who grew up on the street, so natch, nobody can say it's not realistic (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

also, sometimes the 20 questions can be a hindrance to some players: i know that i don't like to make too much of my characters' personalities set in stone before i have actually played them for a few sessions: a lot of what i do outside of running is stuff i come up with on the fly while we're playing; like, i'm trying to hack a maglock, and i think, "goddamn, i can't wait to finish this run and go smoke a joint and play Dawn of Atlantis." or "i was just flirting with the Face in our group to mess around with him, and maybe rip him off later, but then this crazy razorgirl showed up and now SHE'S flirting with him, and suddenly she and i are casting dirty glances back and forth."

i guess that may count as a more organic style of character development, but it works for me. i think it works a lot better than building a bunch of backstory hooks into your character only to get frustrated by the things you put down on paper that never end up being relevant in the game, or stuff that you later think is too unrealistic

[sunnyside]

Ya know I'm getting the feeling a lot of people on this board have a hard time differentiatiating angst/emo and tragedy/troubled past.

Most action characters have a tragedy and troubled past. But it doesn't have to generate angst, emo, or crazed psychopathy. Like pretty much the entire casts of Firefly and Sin City for example. Ok, a couple emoish chars in there. But most are put together and go a different direction with the stuff.

For example Malcom could get his emo on about losing the war, dead war buddies, the feeling of betrayal in the valley, being abandoned by his father, any number of things. But he doesn't. And it isn't ignored by the character either, they're frequently used as motivating and character development points. Just not in an emo way.

[WeaverMount]

getting back to the OP. One thing you might do is leverage the mentor spirits. If you PCs all have emo bullshit you could have a mentor spirit give them a way to overcome that.

[TheOOB]

Ya know I'm getting the feeling a lot of people on this board have a hard time differentiatiating angst/emo and tragedy/troubled past.

Lets see, according to the American Heritage Dictionary, angst is:

"A feeling of anxiety or apprehension often accompanied by depression. "

And emo is just a genre of music usually heavy with self loathing and depression.

How I generally define an angsty/emo character who's primary reaction to ever situation is self-loathing and/or feeling sorry for themselves, oftentimes constantly referencing a past event that causes them to be this way. For some reason people seem to think that these are good characters to play and that always hating yourself is good roleplay, but I personally find characters who have the same response to everything to be annoying.

Anyways, i think wikitropes has a good article on emo

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Emo

[Tachi]

Emo is so ridiculous that I have just invented a new word for it....


Ricockulous! Just like ridiculous, only more so.

[Stahlseele]

so would it be emo do to a facepalm and ask in a whiny voice:"why me?" when someone else does/says something excruciatingly stupid?

[Tachi]

Yes. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[It trolls!]

I define Emo as the celebration of Weltschmerz. Coincidentially I therefore define today's Gothic as Emo + Harry Potter.

For your players: They're in high school, that's pretty much the most valid reason, why their characters are so angst-ridden.

[Fortune]

I'm sorry, but I really can't take 'Emo' seriously. I guess it doesn't help that whenever I read the word, I picture 'Elmo' instead. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Rasumichin]

but try to come up with a background for some jolly good old nice fella with a good sense of humor and nothing really bad happening to him being in the shadows . .

In a non-creepy way or do you mean the psychopathic fey/Belkar Bitterleaf variety?

The former is relatively easy in a hooding-based campaign and a good way to portray a character with strong convictions as someone who doesn't fall into the self-righteous crusader category.
Or you come up with a character who just can deal with hardships by being upbeat, who's got a "if it's not enough to make you cry, laugh about it" or "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger"mindset, not necessarily a chronic optimist, but someone who's a realist who can deal with the inevitable.
Such a character can easily become the moral backbone of the team, the one who holds everything together when things get messy.

The latter, of course, is loads of fun, too.

It generally helps to build characters as a group, asigning each player not only a strategical role, but also a social one, to facilitate interaction between the characters.

It is best to base this of protagonists in TV series, movies or comic books who rely on an ensemble of characters, as pop culture has well-established, easily combinable archetypes.

Fortunately, the good people at tvtropes.org have taken the effort to categorize these archetypes and provide a plethora of examples in the character tropes section of their wiki :

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Characters

Damn, just saw that the site has already been mentioned upthread.
Whatever.

[Wesley Street]

Emo is so ridiculous that I have just invented a new word for it.... Ricockulous! Just like ridiculous, only more so.

Urban dictionary beat you by over four years. Looks like you'll have to shred your patent application.

[sunnyside]

Since we're talking about emo the thing that really bugs me about it is that I can't tell the difference between a kid who is just trying to be cool and fit in and one that's actually about to off themselves or in need of some real help.

Come to think of it eight years back if I had players acting this way I'd be asking them if they had problems in real life and this was some kinda call for help. But I'm pretty sure they're just being dramatic the only way they know how.

Anyway so it sounds like a good first move would be to try and push them towards some good non emo stuff.

I guess I'd get more milage out of stuff that's free online via Hulu, or pretty much any anime series. Lots of manga is online too. Um, if you don't know Hulu go there now, watch Burn Notice if you haven't yet if they haven't pulled the episodes, maybe the Sarah Conner Chronicles or Dresden files if they have.

So from this thread:

Anime:
City Hunter
Angel Heart (really? )
Full Metal Panic
Outlaw Star
Cowboy Bebop (and stop them before the last couple episodes...)
Golgo 13
Ghost in the Shell

Hulu (at least they might be there)
Firefly
X-Files (really? Moulder could be a bit of a whiney bitch)
Indiana Jones
Anything Bond
Burn notice (at least I think this one would be good)

From the paying catagory


Books
William S. Burroughs
Maybe the Gibson stuff
Most of the SR novels (going to hell and back in a Hawaiian shirt, now that's class)
Sin City

Movies
Memento
Salton Sea

I do like the bit about imagining them going to the laundromat and trying to pull them into some of the more "normal" or possibly even happy aspects of "real" life when they aren't running. Though sadly nearly anything can be emoized.

[Fortune]

"As I sit in the grimy Puyallup laundromat, watching with melancholy eyes as my pathetic collection of black clothing spins around and around through the rinse cycle, I am reminded once again of the sheer uselessness of the life cycle in which we are all just spinning aimlessly."

[Zombayz]

"As I sit in the grimy Puyallup laundromat, watching with melancholy eyes as my pathetic collection of black clothing spins around and around through the rinse cycle, I am reminded once again of the sheer uselessness of the life cycle in which we are all just spinning aimlessly."

I'm not sure whether that's so emo I want to vomit, or whether it's painfully awesome.

[sunnyside]

I'm not sure whether that's so emo I want to vomit, or whether it's painfully awesome.

Since I'm pretty sure he's being sarcastic, Awsome.

[Fuchs]

To offer a counterpoint - imagine if you'd only have emotionless killing machines to deal with, characters with no personality at all past "kill stuff, get paid, buy more stuff to kill more stuff" routines, who wade through corpses without any reaction at all. It can be hard to have a grim and gritty dystopian campaign if there is no emotional reaction to it from the characters. It can look and feel more like a reskinned Dungeon crawl in such cases.

So, don't be too worried about emo characters, it could be worse.

[Tachi]

Urban dictionary beat you by over four years. Looks like you'll have to shred your patent application.

Damn. It figures though, I'm always late. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dead.gif)

[sunnyside]

I got a new player today. (Don't mind the "host" stuff, that's specific to my game)

Rough Bio: At the age of 8 her parents died, leaving only her and her older brother Kelin to fend for themselves, Her brother and her went from place to place looking for food and shelter for years on end. Kelin finally took found refugee in an abandon cottage on the Island. They lived there for 3 months before Kelin, became a host. A dangerous one at that. Not wanting to hurt his little sister, he ran away to find a cure, leaving Amaia there.He did not know she was also a host. She was found later by the bookstore keeper, and then enrolled in the University. Where she lives out her days waiting for her older brother.

Person you know already: Leon Wanuki.

Other: She hopes to make friends, but so far no one will talk to her. She is pretty much an outcast.

I can't fault them for lack of effort or plot hooks. (They wrote some other stuff too.)

Just, well, you know.

[Sir_Psycho]

I think the real problem is that because these kids are young and inexperienced roleplayers they don't understand the immense value in showing not telling.

"Malone was feeling down about his dead brother. He knocked back a shot of synthahol to dull the pain inside, and then put on a brave face."

It's trash because it's overt, and they're telling you how the character is feeling, which comes across as forced and tacky.

"Malone thumbed the shot glass, staring it down with bleary eyes. His eye drifted to the photo in his right hand, smiling faces, a dog with it's tongue lolling, a fresh-faced young lad with his arm around his lilttle brother. He sniffed loudly and lay the photo face down with a care the hulk of a man looked unnacustomed to, rubbing his eyes discretely and saying in his strongest, most authoritative shadowrunner tone, 'Another. In a clean glass, this time."

In this example we get the same information, that Malone is sad because his brother died, but instead of describing ("telling"), we get a look (showing) at Malone's state of mind through the way he acts.

This is why physical and mental quirks are so important (see 20 Questions) for a character. Take my czech hacker, Beta, for example. Sure, her mother and best childhood friend were murdered violently at the hand of a Shedim possessing her father. Sounds like the typical emo backstory, right? To work this in and make it relevant, rather than Beta constantly referencing her dead parents, instead she displays fear and discomfort at the sight and smell of meat, and also has a phobia of physical contact and intimacy with others. To get the intimacy and sexual gratification she shuns she lives a voyeuristic life over the matrix, and drowns herself in BTL porn sims.

[Aaron]

Again the problem is in how they'd answer them. Again these people want to have character depth, and try to add it. They just seem to feel that depth=angst.

That's part of why Wujcik's quiz is so brilliant. There are questions in there that offer some character depth without favoring drama or angst. For example, "How does your character get his or her laundry done?" is more clever than it might seem at first blush. It explores some depth of the character while forcing overly dramatic or angsty answers to be just silly. When the player starts exploring the more mundane aspects of the character, he or she stops being a two-dimensional pulp character with an angsty background and starts to develop.

Some of the Twenty Questions in Runner's Companion try to do this, too, but you can only cram so much into twenty questions.

[sunnyside]

That's part of why Wujcik's quiz is so brilliant.

Any of that online?

[Aaron]

Any of that online?

For twelve bucks, yes.

[Ryu]

Any of that online?

I found this: Amber Character Questionaire

[masterofm]

I invented a new word for emo I call it angst! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif)

Teens have angst. They also going to RP, but it is going to be angsty RP. At least that is what I remember doing myself when I was younger. All my characters were some twisted version of myself or what I always wanted to be except with a small helping of angst. There were others who had much more, but hell almost everyone I knew who was a teenager had angst and was rebellious. Most of my friends, my parents (and their friends) and my grandparents (not too sure about their friends though.)

[Aaron]

I found this: Amber Character Questionaire

Those seem to be excerpts from the original. I'm not sure whether they're verbatim, going from memory, but I believe they're in there. If I'm not mistaken, the questions on the linked page represent fewer than half of the number of questions in the book.

[Wounded Ronin]

Angst is okay if it's manly. Then it's mangst, I guess.

Example: Rambo in Rambo 3. He has angst, but then he puts it, and half the Burmese army, away.

.50 cal machine gun + angst = mangst.

[TKDNinjaInBlack]

Teens have angst. They also going to RP, but it is going to be angsty RP. At least that is what I remember doing myself when I was younger. All my characters were some twisted version of myself or what I always wanted to be except with a small helping of angst. There were others who had much more, but hell almost everyone I knew who was a teenager had angst and was rebellious. Most of my friends, my parents (and their friends) and my grandparents (not too sure about their friends though.)

Bingo. That's your biggest problem. Anyone who is new to gaming is acting outside of their comfort zone. To make RPing more comfortable, they usually pick or create characters that they are familiar with (ie recreating characters from shows or movies), or they create themselves in the game world (hell, I did this my first campaign). However, regardless of what character they play, beginners usually don't know how to RP, so they just let tons and tons of their quirks and ideologies and beliefs dump into their character so they become a carbon copy of themselves. When you have an angsty teen with no real trouble to cause them angst (save puberty) playing someone they're not, they will dump all of that RL angst into their character. At least with their characters they have a reason to be angsty, so it's not that bad.

I am a firm believer that kids are stupid, not on the grounds that they lack intelligence, but because they lack any kind of experience or hardships. You won't see the teen who has been made to get a job and buy their own silly clothes and learn to wash them by themselves and support their asses being angsty. They don't have time for that shit, they've got to get to work and pay some bills. Kids only have angst until they realize that RL takes effort and some personal responsibility and unfortunately, for most kids that doesn't come until college and for some, later than that. So, when RPing with kids in High School, be prepared for a good heaping dose of angst and just deal with it, because these kids haven't ever had a reason to be depressed. Their level of angst is inversely proportional to the amount of suffering the person has actually experienced IRL.

Once someone (even angsty teenagers) gets comfortable with RPing though, they will start creating characters outside of their comfort zones and start branching out and acting in good manners. RPing has that training wheels learning curve where everybody totally makes their first character act just like they would, and usually in some kind of lawless psychopathic manner. Hell, my first SR game, all of us were brand new to RPing and totally acted like a bunch of noobs that represented what we would do in a world without any real repercussions.

[Platinum Dragon]

so would it be emo do to a facepalm and ask in a whiny voice:"why me?" when someone else does/says something excruciatingly stupid?

Not unless you do it constantly and turn yourself into a pariah.

I'm sorry, but I really can't take 'Emo' seriously. I guess it doesn't help that whenever I read the word, I picture 'Elmo' instead. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[elmo voice]Elmo knows where you live![/elmo]

This is why physical and mental quirks are so important (see 20 Questions) for a character. Take my czech hacker, Beta, for example. Sure, her mother and best childhood friend were murdered violently at the hand of a Shedim possessing her father. Sounds like the typical emo backstory, right? To work this in and make it relevant, rather than Beta constantly referencing her dead parents, instead she displays fear and discomfort at the sight and smell of meat, and also has a phobia of physical contact and intimacy with others. To get the intimacy and sexual gratification she shuns she lives a voyeuristic life over the matrix, and drowns herself in BTL porn sims.

That's awesome. I wish I could create characters half as detailed as that.

[masterofm]

I think what everyone has gotten at, but has never hit the mark is flavor. A character should always have flavor. This makes a 2d character a 3d character and in the end more fun to play. It can sometimes restrict your character in what you want to do, but it can at the same time make them more interesting.

For instance I had a somewhat angst driven character but man alive was/is he fun to play.

His name is Bob (formerly Yuske Takahashi) and he is a troll who was taken by force from his family and brought up at a young age by the JIS and brainwashed. When he was sent into the field he was also mind controlled (for fear that he might turn on his superior officers) to capture those trolls and orcs in the San Francisco underground during JIS occupation. When the mind control spell wore off due to the fact that Bob became awakened, he became enraged at how he was manipulated and in a fit of rage killed the rest of the team he was working with. Bob then took on his new name as he wanted to have nothing to do with the JIS. Although he was fully under JIS control he still blames himself for being manipulated into turning in his fellow metahumans and felt that he should have been stronger to resist what he had done.

He then went on a two year drug binge, alienated all of his contacts, and has so far sold everything he has except for his suit of full body armor (that has the JIS symbol scratched off of it.) During that time though he was able to self teach himself the new powers that he had somehow been bestowed. He takes combat drugs when in combat to feel alive, and when he is not fighting he takes any other type of drug to forget his sins. During this time he joined the resistance movement against the JIS, but due to his over enthusiastic tendencies to needlessly kill the JIS he became somewhat of a liability to anyone else on his team. To the point where the only missions he could get were what the resistance considered suicide missions however he was happy as long as he could kill his former tormentors. Somehow through all of this he has managed to survive and after the fall of the JIS occupation he found himself again without a purpose, that is until a sun mentor spirit took pity on him and guided his hand giving him a new purpose in life. Although still a drug addict with no friends and living in a dumpster with a sack of his old belongings he is determined to make up for his past transgressions and press on with his life. Bob is almost always sporting a stained garish Hawaiian t-shirt, shaded sunglasses, sandals, and a pair of baggy shorts.

He is a risky character who over-summons all of his spirits even if he doesn't need to, takes crazy combat drugs, and is actually incredibly smart, although it is as much of a blessing as it is a curse in his case. He doesn't know why he is still alive. Yet in the end he is not a broody character, but he is generally hung over and will not hesitate to snatch drugs out of your hand... at least your hand is open. He has angst but it is more of a bad assed angst, kind of like the mangst Wounded Ronin was talking about. Since he has flavor he is fun to play, and easier to roll play.

[sunnyside]

Heh. Mangst.

Teens have angst. They also going to RP, but it is going to be angsty RP. At least that is what I remember doing myself when I was younger. All my characters were some twisted version of myself or what I always wanted to be except with a small helping of angst. There were others who had much more, but hell almost everyone I knew who was a teenager had angst and was rebellious. Most of my friends, my parents (and their friends) and my grandparents (not too sure about their friends though.)

How old are you? I thought you were another of us late 20's early 30's guys.

The reason being because my general impression was that the angsty angle in RP was newish. I seem to recall my early gaming groups leaning more towards RPing characters who were, if anything, more confident, manly/womanly, and better with the opposite sex than the player.

And even today I'd say the SR sample characters are trying to push the players that direction. Mental health issues sure. Complete jerk? Maybe. But not a lot of angst from even the ones that are all done up in black.

If anything tragic pasts and other traditional angst sources add more depth to such characters becuase, well, it's on a different plane. By that I mean when Emo McGoth misses their mommy it isn't adding anything to the character. If Conan or the Bounty Hunter does than it's good for a jaw dropping all around.

Also, I got another new player today

Appearance: Sunstar stands 5'11" and is very pale with bright blue eyes. She is commonly seen wearing black shirts and pants with black steeltoed combat boots or black skater shoes. She is also known to wear a black leather trenchcoat that reaches just above her ankles. She has black hair that has a purple sheen to it that is straight and stops at her waist. She has long black nails that she sharpens to a point and paints black.

Personality: Sunstar is kind of cold to most people at first, prefering to observe them before she actually goes over and introduces herself.

Rough Bio: Grew up in the town and was raised well. She was very friendly up until 5 years ago when her mother died, now she is kind of a loner, and only talks to those she deems worthy. Sunstar is an only child and doesn't have a good relationship with her father.

I'm not making this stuff up. It's like I'm watching the emo day parade as the character sheets go by. Again I didn't criticise the preson. I tend to be easy on the newbies, and she certainly tried here. But it's like the whole generation is this way.



Hmmmmm Since I'm not screwing with their chargen maybe I should be asking about how to encourage characters to develop and change over time.

Commence operation "anything but black".

[masterofm]

I'm 25.

However even though I was never really all that much of an angst driven teen I still had angst even if it was more of a side dish then the main course. There was a point in my life ten years ago that really really sucked, but hell I got on with my life and am quite happy now. I was also a latch key kid so I think it might have helped that I wasn't a pampered spoiled little brat. To me though angst is nothing new. My mother was angsty/rebelious, so was my Aunt, both my brothers who are ten and fifteen years older then me respectively. Angst is nothing new. Emo is new. Personally I view people who are still broody in their mid to late 20's are the people who are actually emo. Teens have angst, but after that whole puberty thing wares off and that amount of unnecessary self loathing does not wear off then I would probably peg them as emo. In my head adults can be emo, teens just have angst because of the awkward situation they are put in. Some people use Kurt Cobain as an emo template.

See where is the flavor of that character? Her mother died, w/o any flavor to it. Why does she hate her father? Did her father kill her mother? Did he stand back and let her die as the thief broke into their home?

Zero flavor that is why the character sucks.

[masterofm]

Let me attempt to add some flavor to this character and make her less... um... bad.

Appearance: Mary Sutherland a.k.a. Sunstar stands 5'11" with pale bright blue eyes (insert ethnicity, skin type, body build, and meta/human status.)

Growing up watching the trids on television of the hit show CyberP 2065 she became enamored with the idea of running in the shadows. She was known at the age of thirteen to be almost addicted to black (a fad which has not worn off.) During her teen years she was known only to sport black. She was always wearing black shirts, shades, pants, steeltoed combat boots, and skater shoes. She would even ware a black leather trenchcoat every once and a while. Although she was heavily mocked by many of her peers it was a lifestyle that she felt comfortable in despite being austrisized by most of her classmates. Her mother, Judy Sutherland, was a nurse who worked for Docwagon ™ was always kind and supportive to whatever kind of choices she made and helped her during those dark days in her childhood when the words became too much for her gentile soul to take. When Sunstar closes her eyes she can still remember the loving embrace her mother would give her and the sweet gentile song she used to whisper in her ears to help ease her pain.

Her father, Henry Sutherland, was a mid level security chief working for Lone Star. However he was always very critical of his daughter's behavior and would constantly make belittling remarks about how Sunstar should grow up. One day when her father had had enough of Sunstar's behavior he took off his belt, but before he could beat her Judy stayed his hand. However two weeks later an escaped convict who escaped from a Lone Star prison entered her home and brutally killed her mother while she was hiding under her bed. Her father came home two hours later after the killer escaped. Later she found out that her father had hired a team of shadowrunners to bring . Although she has never forgiven her father and suspects that he was involved with her mothers death the shadowrunner team who brought the killer to justice became her idols. It is now five years later and she gave herself the handle of sunstar as a somewhat twisted joke on Lone Star where she will bring her enemies to justice, since she knows first hand what the law is really worth.)

Sunstar is cold and slow to trust at first, prefering to observe them before she actually introduces herself. However is loyal to those who bring her comfort and are willing to help her out in a time of need.

If I had some stats I could write a better back story on how she used to train during recess to be a shadowrunner and how she was mocked, since her school was basically training her to be a wage slave later on in life a roll which she refused to accept.

You have the angst, but at least it's not lame angst. Maybe there are various versions of angst.

Mangst = manly angst
langst = lame angst
wangst = whiney angst

[Tachi]

Angst is okay if it's manly. Then it's mangst, I guess.

Example: Rambo in Rambo 3. He has angst, but then he puts it, and half the Burmese army, away.

.50 cal machine gun + angst = mangst.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif)

This post is overflowing with win.

[Rasumichin]

I'm not making this stuff up. It's like I'm watching the emo day parade as the character sheets go by. Again I didn't criticise the preson. I tend to be easy on the newbies, and she certainly tried here. But it's like the whole generation is this way.

OMG.
Before reading this thread, i always thought that this whole emo fad is just for show, as all the emos i know personally don't have anything remotely angsty about them, but tend to be outgoing party people who just happen to have a rather peculiar taste in music and be fond of those stupid sweat bands (which, in their cases, happen to be just a fashion statement and not a sign of self-hurting).
Are they always like this or do they just end up with such characters?

[sunnyside]

@masterofm 90% good stuff
10% http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=612 (Though since I'm throwing the link DM of the Rings is made of awsome if you've had enough gaming groups to *know* these people, the rest of you can learn what not to do).

However you're right that even in keeping this short a simple reason for the bad father relationship would make him more of a useable personality and give the character a possible sore spot all in the space of maybe seven words.


@Rasumichin

There are definitly "emos" these days. I'm talking about kids who cut themselves because it's "cool". And it's quite widespread.

As a side note there have been mass beatings of emo groups in Mexico and regions of Russia are trying to outlaw the fashion and music on school ground and government buildings.
http://www.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,1725839,00.html (with video)
http://www.freemuse.org/sw29040.asp

However the players aren't really emo. I think they feel like fictional characters should be emo after reading some vampire realated stuff from Ann Rice, to "Twighlight," to "Vampire Knight" (Note that my knowledge of those series is highly limited, sorry if I'm mischaracterizing them).

As a side note your friends may be something other than emo. "Scene" perhaps?

[masterofm]

I didn't really take all that much time making up the back story and just wrote as I thought it up. It took me longer writing it as it did coming up with the backstory. I.E. 2 minutes vs. 6-8 minutes.

I wanted her mother to sing this song from Hocus Pocus to her daughter, or at least that was the image I got - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsda4GJuzcQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4S9ZFv6YzcQ...feature=related - the longer version, but it is nice when the song starts to break down in the end.


That song might bump it up to 95% awesome, since it's also a pretty decent song if you wanted to screw with the character later on.

The sad thing is I spent a while longer searching for the title of the movie then I thought I would, so that I forgot why I was looking for it... >.< Well it is a brand new day and I got some extra sleep.

[WeaverMount]

Let me attempt to add some flavor to this character and make her less... um... bad.

Appearance: Mary Sutherland a.k.a. Sunstar stands 5'11" with pale bright blue eyes (insert ethnicity, skin type, body build, and meta/human status.)

emphasis mine... for lolz

----

White Wolf is ground zero for emo gaming, and they opened there doors in 91. Emo was respectable genre of punk until around 2000. I don't know when Emo fashion/style/mannerism really caught in popular culture but if you assume it is around the time the music caught on and a little later, then emo gaming has been around for about 10 more years than people have been using emo as a derogatory

[Heath Robinson]

from Ann Rice, to "Twighlight," to "Vampire Knight" (Note that my knowledge of those series is highly limited, sorry if I'm mischaracterizing them).

to "Vampire Knight" (Note that

Vampire Knight

Walk away. It's all you can do.

[sunnyside]

Walk away. It's all you can do.

I suppose I could actually watch the series. Most anime is availible free online.

/watches a couple episodes.

1. Since when did women start finding men who look rather like women to be optimally attractive!
wiki wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bish%C5%8Dnen
Well. Geez. Darn it. First the queer eye guys take away our flannel and now they want us to not show off our manly body hair, square jaws, and broad shoulders. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)

(Note to self, another reason to dislike the SR Japanicorps)

2. Having children in the series is a bit like saying "I'll be right back" if you're in a horror movie.

3. Apperantly not liking a girl is the new flirting.

4. Only the coolest kids are emo. Most of the cast doesn't seem to be, just the male leads Well, I guess all the vampires are a little.

[sunnyside]

emphasis mine... for lolz

That was an awsome catch. Freudian slip mayhaps masterofm?

[masterofm]

I was going for a very common name. Didn't even think about Mary Su. I was actually thinking her handle is somewhat an augmentation of her last name, and lone star. It makes sense as part of the history and ties in neatly with the characters persona. I think you should pitch this characters history to the player and see if they take a nibble at it.

My previous runner's handle was Kevin Randal if you are wondering about how some of my characters are. He was a rigger/face who was quite non-threatening, until one of his drones shot or fired a grenade at your face.

[Heath Robinson]

I suppose I could actually watch the series. Most anime is availible free online.

/watches a couple episodes.

Good heavens! What have I done?!

[sunnyside]

Good heavens! What have I done?!

*cut* *cut*

Like the lumberjack of the dinosaurs
I chop away
To prove my manliness
The red sap flows
But do I care if it stops?
Timber

[Wounded Ronin]

*cut* *cut*

Like the lumberjack of the dinosaurs
I chop away
To prove my manliness
The red sap flows
But do I care if it stops?
Timber

There is only one possible response: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEDNx-JWuis

[Wounded Ronin]

More on topic, here is Van Damme attempting to portray manly martial angst. Note that this scene is the precursor to his kicking Bolo Yeung in the face with twisty kicks in the next scene: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KqOvPs2gw4...feature=related

It's also very Shadowrun, being an 80s orientalist American film.

[Cthulhudreams]

mangst == best call ever.

[MaxMahem]

I don't really see the problem with letting a person play the character they want to play. I mean sure, you might find it less than ideal, or only two-dimensional, but if the player is having fun and getting what they want out of the game, why should you force them to add 'depth' they don't want to add, or become 'more creative' with their characterizations?

In my opinion, it is best to just let the player play the game the way they want to play it. Most players will evolve naturally themselves, especially when exposed to other players who put a lot of 'depth' into their own characters, or even better, a GM who isn't afraid to pour on the characterizations in the social scenes, and plays up the day-to-day life of the PCs. I don't feel that there is a need to 'teach' players to be better role-players, or force them into playing characterizations they don't really feel comfortable with, or aren't ready for themselves.

I agree with Fortune here. Players are going to play the kind of characters they want to play. Attempts to talk them out of it or into some new sort of character type is generally futile. I've got one guy in my group who always plays a maniac of some sort. Another one always plays a playboy of some sort. This is what they want to do, who am I to try and tell them to play something different?

So what should you do?
First analyze if you truly have a problem. Generally with loner emo types, the main problem that arises is that the players don't work together well and may be overly prone to backstab one another. If the players are more-or-less functional as a team, and there isn't to much intra-party mayhem that disrupts the game then there probably isn't a problem here. (Unless of course you want that kind of stuff, I don't, but to each there own).

If you are having these sorts of problems, talk with your players about it. Explain to them that for the game to work well they have to work together just a little bit. Consider having them make all there characters at once and having them share a common backstory of some sort. Give them some sort of common cause early on to unite them (having them betrayed by an employeer and out for revenge works well).

If your only problem is just that your unsatisfied with the character types, then you are probably experiencing some of these two problems:
The character types are just to bland. Give them incentives to develop a more creative backstory. Such as free karma point for ones that you really like. Get them to fill out the 20 questions (or some other equivelent). For my group I find starting each session off by asking a character an interesting question works well. I also like to do a mini-interview with the character, Pretend your Larry King and quiz the character about stuff, if possible get the player to respond IC as well.

You just don't like the character type: I completely understand what you mean, but well get over it. Yes the loner samurai who's parents, siblings, and pets are all dead may be a bit old hat, but if thats what the player wants to play, and its not disrupting your game, get over it. Your job as GM is to construct the setting and framework in which the players play, its there job to define and play the role of the actors, so let them do it. The game is (IMO) much more satisfing when players are playing characters they really want to play.

What you can do is provide some help and encouragement in game to help them grow. Have an NPC in the game befriend them. Kill off any remaining loved ones. Keep dumping drama on them until you get some positive results. You can also lead by example. Interesting NPCs can inspire characters to greater heights. Let the PCs know it's okay to steal blatantly for TV archtypes. (The emo loner often comes from a vain attempt at originality).

---

But in the end you can only lead and encourage. Attempts to force the players to grow into character types you like better are bound to fail. Players are a lot like horses in this respect. You can lead them to water, but you can't make them drink.

[sunnyside]

More on topic, here is Van Damme attempting to portray manly martial angst. Note that this scene is the precursor to his kicking Bolo Yeung in the face with twisty kicks in the next scene: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KqOvPs2gw4...feature=related

It's also very Shadowrun, being an 80s orientalist American film.

There we go.

For the record I'm trying to add "mangst" to the urban dictionary. The program is being annoying though.

[masterofm]

Or you could take their crummy 2d story and make it something bigger and ask if that was the image the character wanted. Either you take the effort or they take the effort. In the end characters should just have flavor. Something that drives them, something interesting, something someone can easily play. Saying "my character is good with guns and shoots people" is lame, saying "My character is an ex military operative who ended up losing his wife due to accidentally getting tied up in the mob and has taken years to hone his skill with a gun for hire" is something to go on. Both can be one and the same character the only difference is that there is something to go on in the second saying.

In story writing you call it show not tell. Don't tell us your character is a badass, show us. My character dresses all in black and is a cold calculating badass.... you see that there is no flavor to that? It's like eating at "Claim Jumpers" for how dry, and partially frozen the background is.

Have the person play whoever they want to play, but just have something going for the character instead of "my character is a playboy." My response would be "Fine he is a playboy now show me why."

[Fuchs]

I'd not say those backgrounds are lame or stupid - they just lack details so far, but those cna be added in game or by digging some. Most players will not have thought of possible details yet - sometimes those are hard to come up without getting reminded. By asking about possible details those can be created. Like asking the playboy if he had a woman he loved in the past, or has one he still loves, or if he fears commitment, or if he is just indecisive, juggling girlfriends, or needs the constant attention to reassure himself, etc.
The girl in black may have had a rivalry in school, or was hurt by a boyfriend, or is a fan of some poet, singer, or simsense star, or runs a fan node of such a person, worked part-time in a shop that got bought up and closed by a corp, etc. etc.

[masterofm]

You know I am the only person who has offered constructive feedback on the characters background right? I also don't think it is the players fault, because when I was a teen it was hard to write background for my characters (I just never really thought about it.) I also don't think anything a person can create is stupid, but I can believe that you can create a character concept that is completely flat and lacks any kind of originality. Sorry but if you create a character who's background is a time traveling biodrone who is here to save us from the future it's just not going to happen.

My response would be to offer a better background and work with the player from there (which it seems like I am the only person to have done this instead of implying that you should do it.) If they don't want the background that I can come up with on the spot then there is still ways to teak the concept into something they really enjoy. The key thing is work with them on the spot the minute they submit the character concept until you can find a solution you both like. I am personally interested if the person who created Sunstar would like the background I wrote for her, and the plot hook that the GM can potentially use in game.

[sunnyside]

I am personally interested if the person who created Sunstar would like the background I wrote for her, and the plot hook that the GM can potentially use in game.

I'll let you know, but you'll have to wait. I've got a 15 year old emo girl on my hands that's brand spanking new to RPGs.

Which means I'm leery of confusing or appearing to be criticizing her (I have a hard enough to trying to give constructive criticism with my 28 year old, non-emo wife).

So for now we'll try organically growing her character as the game goes on and than later I'll bring up to topic of enhancing her backstory and I'd be willing to throw in your stuff as ideas.

Side note: I'm attempting to send the emos to the beach. Not sure how that'll work out, but hopefully at least I'll be amused. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

[Platinum Dragon]

Nothing like blistering 45 degree days (Celcius, of course) spent in the sun to make people re-think the 'all-black' outfit. =P

[Wounded Ronin]

Have her character break a nail whenever she operates a handgun. I'm a guy but my nails have a natural ability to get long and stick out a little bit, and if I don't cut my nails before I go shooting I break 'em all the time.

[TKDNinjaInBlack]

Well, to be honest, I couldn't care less about what the characters write for a back story (in terms of pure role playing) and how ridiculously cliche it is. I do want them to pick a character and act in the appropriate manner though. Back story doesn't matter as much as what the player brings forth to the table.

Like I said, beginners will pick a personality that hits close to home and is within their comfort zone. If a teen plays, they'll play a character with angst, that's all there is to it. Get them playing, keep them having fun, and get them hooked and they'll eventually start playing personalities that are far removed from themselves and probably even play characters that are fun to have around. If you alienate them and harass them for what they've brought to the table, they'll just get upset and stop playing.

[Wounded Ronin]

Heh, well, practically speaking, yeah.

[sunnyside]

If you alienate them and harass them for what they've brought to the table, they'll just get upset and stop playing.

Yeah. That's why I'm playing with the kid gloves on. I mean they're emo to start with. To much "constructive criticism" and I have to clean blood off the fragging furniture.


So far I'm having some fun success by trying to recruit some more confident males and perky females and then throwing them at the emos.

I'm not entirely sure if the emos are becoming less emo. But it's hillarious at any rate, and, really, that's enough for me. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[Stahlseele]

*snickers*
i imagine some barbie blondes trying to talk about their my little pony stuff with some emos now ^^