Wires, Wires, everywhere, and not a port to hack., Sometimes, there's no school like the old school. Options

[SpasticTeapot]

In SR4, a really skilled hacker can interfere with drones, vehicles, and even handguns. So why not connect everything by fiber optics and add a great big "shut down all wireless modems" button? It would be extremely inconvenient and require a bit of cyberware (if nothing else, a datajack and some sort of router) to make it work, but I could definitely see this being used by paranoid street samurai.

[Draco18s]

You know. One of these days players will learn that if you hack cyberware all you get is the diagnostics output. You can't make people punch themselves in the face with their own cyberarm. It does not work that way. Why else is a cyberarm connected to your NERVOUS SYSTEM?

For guns you could get (and maybe spoof it though I doubt it*) the smartlink system. Fire it if they have a triggerless gun (most people don't). But not aim it.

*Smartlink as I understand it requires a camera on or in the gun. Spoofing the smartlink system would require providing near-correct but wrong video feed.

[Stahlseele]

EVERYTHING comes with Wire-Less Capability built in.
Yes, even your underwear. even the coffe that you allready drank.
It can be switched off, of course, but to get it to be GONE, you have to get rid of it by tinkering BEFORE you install something . .
Of course, the paranoid street-sam will do something like that.
But if you did not, specifically, state your intent before getting ANYTHING . . yeah, you are wifi-capable.
Because in SR4 society just ticks like that. People allready look at me funny when i tell them that i neither have nor want a cellphone.
Now imagine that in the Solid State Society of SR4.

[the_real_elwood]

You know. One of these days players will learn that if you hack cyberware all you get is the diagnostics output. You can't make people punch themselves in the face with their own cyberarm. It does not work that way. Why else is a cyberarm connected to your NERVOUS SYSTEM?

For guns you could get (and maybe spoof it though I doubt it*) the smartlink system. Fire it if they have a triggerless gun (most people don't). But not aim it.

*Smartlink as I understand it requires a camera on or in the gun. Spoofing the smartlink system would require providing near-correct but wrong video feed.

Theoretically, couldn't a hacker turn off your cyberware as well? It's kind of impractical for a combat situation, as it'd take a bit for the hacker to get in, and it'd be just a mental command for the original user to turn the cyberware back on

[Draco18s]

Theoretically, couldn't a hacker turn off your cyberware as well? It's kind of impractical for a combat situation, as it'd take a bit for the hacker to get in, and it'd be just a mental command for the original user to turn the cyberware back on

Personally I don't think so. If cyber can be turned off, I wouldn't expect anything other than a physical hardwired switch.

Reasoning? You'd only need to turn it off if you're doing repair work or getting it put on/taken off.

But feel free to run your cyberpunk your way where anyone with a little money can hack everyone's limbs...

(Though our GM did come up with the idea of a trid show, I forget now what he called it, but it shows a street monitored by a security camera, the first person to make someone slip/trip by hacking cyber wins.)

[eidolon]

I personally feel that the ability to mess with cyber and other "personal electronics" is half of what makes the Wireless Matrix worth bothering with in the first place. Hackers can do stuff besides sit in the van and edit cameras if they want to. That's a big win in my book.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I personally feel that the ability to mess with cyber and other "personal electronics" is half of what makes the Wireless Matrix worth bothering with in the first place. Hackers can do stuff besides sit in the van and edit cameras if they want to. That's a big win in my book.

In my book as well, thoguh it is generally not EASY... and can be made more difficult if you do it intelligently...

EDIT... OOOOOps Doubel Post...

[TheOOB]

Most 'ware can't be significantly altered without a direct neural connection, the wireless link is for diagnostics and stuff. That said, if you hack into a datajack or a simsense unit you can in turn hack into someone's DNI and send command to the 'ware.

Smartguns, by definition, can fire wirelessly. You have have to explicitly turn that feature off if you didn't want it to do that.

Really though, hacking in electronics is an important part of what hackers do. While most runners(and high end security teams) will practice good matrix security so that they are difficult if not impossible to hack, people who don't run the shadows for a living will usually sacrifice security for ease of use.

[Heath Robinson]

It's called a Gargoyle Rig, and yes, some of us have been promoting them for quite a while. Unlike skinlink, a Gargoyle rig doesn't require a mod on every single bit of equipment you own. It just needs you to string fibre between everything. It also gives you greater throughput than a skinlink, since you get less crosstalk.

Fibre costs about 5 nuyen metre^-1. Unless your limbs are 10m in length it's cheaper.


Draco,
Diagonistics also include full range motion tests. You can't really tell if a joint is properly working without doing one since there may be things in the joint that are invisible to normal sensors. Even if we have sensors that are capable of performing a full analysis of the situation, it's cheaper to do a motion test than throw it in. Always.

Diagnostics take machine time, so even if you only have diagnostics available you can switch off their wired by spawning an infinite loop of diagnostic tests. If it includes range tests, so much the better.

[hobgoblin]

What to keep in mind about cyberware, smartlinks and similar is that they will only have admin account available.

Thats a +6 on the hack attempt.

Also, one do not need to full on bondage queen just to get out of the wireless thing.

Make sure all gear is equipped with skinlink.

Another trick would be to run two (or more) separate comlinks. One deals with your pan, smartlink and all, and talks to a set of contacts or cybereyes (this comlink would be totally off the matrix). Then you run your communications comlink using a ear piece and monocle (or shades).

Your team hacker wants to show you something? pop the monocle in place and have a look. The smartlink crosshair on the other hand will always be in place when you grab your gun.

And maybe keep a couple of extra communication comlinks stashed around the plex. Or have some certified cred in a hidden compartment on your body, so that you can grab a throw away if your com is burned.

[hobgoblin]

It also gives you greater throughput than a skinlink, since you get less crosstalk.

Only as a houserule, there is nothing in SR4 or unwired that claims such a issue.

[Chrysalis]

Hacking the cyberarm to grab the neck and then followed up by a maximum force test. The only unfortunate thing with that is that it will definitely kill the person.

That's a free grapple followed by redlining the strength of the arm.

The way I would go around this problem is that the diagnostic software is not installed in the cyber. It is a proprietary piece of software used by cyber doctors and demands a license. This way corps can squeeze money out of users through elective medical tune-ups.

[Heath Robinson]

Only as a houserule, there is nothing in SR4 or unwired that claims such a issue.

Did I say it had any ingame effect?

What to keep in mind about cyberware, smartlinks and similar is that they will only have admin account available.

Thats a +6 on the hack attempt.

Peripheral nodes can only run one persona at a time, they are not designed for multiple users. For this reason, they only have admin accounts, but these accounts do not receive the +6 threshold modifier for hacking (treat them as standard accounts).

Incidentally, I believe this should also apply to spoofing these devices.

[Draco18s]

The way I would go around this problem is that the diagnostic software is not installed in the cyber. It is a proprietary piece of software used by cyber doctors and demands a license. This way corps can squeeze money out of users through elective medical tune-ups.

Good point.

In either case, I'm betting that you could access diagnostics data without the testing software ("How well has this joint been performing under normal use?" kind of stuff, rather than full range of motion testing, but rather observatory data).

[SpasticTeapot]

You know. One of these days players will learn that if you hack cyberware all you get is the diagnostics output. You can't make people punch themselves in the face with their own cyberarm. It does not work that way. Why else is a cyberarm connected to your NERVOUS SYSTEM?

All diagnostic systems (and I mean all of them) will let you bypass complicated I/O systems and directly modify each individual output. While making someone punch themself in the face would require superhuman on-the-fly coding abilities, replacing the input from a user's central nervous system with a random number generator would actually be pretty easy. Having a rapidly spasming limb is bad enough, but having a rapidly spasming limb that can crush steel bars is much worse.

For guns you could get (and maybe spoof it though I doubt it*) the smartlink system. Fire it if they have a triggerless gun (most people don't). But not aim it.

The smartlink system is, if I'm not mistaken, linked to the clip release. And the safety. Mess with either of them, and you've got a very ornate paperweight.

Because in SR4 society just ticks like that. People allready look at me funny when i tell them that i neither have nor want a cellphone.
Now imagine that in the Solid State Society of SR4.

Bingo.

Disabling wireless capability even temporarily is going to be a big pain in the ass - for starters, you'll have bits of cable looped around your body, and many things suddenly become very inconvenient. You might still be able to connect to smartguns via a skinlink, but you'd have to have all your gear connected to you at all times by a conductive material. Group communication would be severely limited, and fuggedabout the matrix.

The way I would go around this problem is that the diagnostic software is not installed in the cyber. It is a proprietary piece of software used by cyber doctors and demands a license. This way corps can squeeze money out of users through elective medical tune-ups.

......what color is the sky in your world? It's obviously not the same one I live in. Firmware-level spoofing is widespread even today, from Hackintoshes to Rockbox'd iPods to ink cartridges that tell the printer they're brand new each time you refill them. Do you think it will be any less so tomorrow?

[Draco18s]

......what color is the sky in your world? It's obviously not the same one I live in. Firmware-level spoofing is widespread even today, from Hackintoshes to Rockbox'd iPods to ink cartridges that tell the printer they're brand new each time you refill them. Do you think it will be any less so tomorrow?

Today's cars have incredibly complicated computers inside them.

Can YOU start up a diagnostics run on one?

No.

Why?

Because all of the software and equipment necessary to get it to do that is a giant honking box sitting in the mechanic's garage.

[hobgoblin]

Did I say it had any ingame effect?

Nope, but nor did you specify that it was not...

Incidentally, I believe this should also apply to spoofing these devices.

Well oops, pesky unwired messing up my point...

[hobgoblin]

Today's cars have incredibly complicated computers inside them.

Can YOU start up a diagnostics run on one?

No.

Why?

Because all of the software and equipment necessary to get it to do that is a giant honking box sitting in the mechanic's garage.

And in SR, the computing power found in that honking box can be found in the pocket of a gang member, and then some...

Also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On-Board_Diagnostics

There is even plugs for that socket that can convert to bluetooth. 10 meter access range, at least...

And some interesting software to use that with:
http://openbossa.indt.org/carman/

But in the end, it comes down to how your group of players wants to play the game...

[Draco18s]

Admittedly it's not like you can do anything damaging to the car while it's moving.

Cyberlimbs on the other hand could be quite dangerous to the user if hacked, so you'd want to keep the level of control available to the wireless network to a minimum.

Not to mention that cyberlimbs have signal rating 0.

[Writer]

I imagine that a cyberarms user would be involved in the standard diagnostic testing of a cyberarm, so a simple, "Please flex your elbow ... Thank you. Now, extend ..." would be easy and appropriate. I can't see how any marketing campaign could convince the general public that allowing someone else to control your body would go over well. I can see spoofing diagnostic signals, giving false warnings, which might cause the owner to hesitate, or even hold back, but outright control, even for a second, seems far fetched.

I don't see how this hinders hacker usage in the field, either. There are so many other things to hack, besides the occasional cyberware, such as peripherals (gloves, glasses, earbuds), communications, locks, security devices, vehicles, etc.

[Draco18s]

I don't see how this hinders hacker usage in the field, either. There are so many other things to hack, besides the occasional cyberware, such as peripherals (gloves, glasses, earbuds), communications, locks, security devices, vehicles, etc.

That's what I've always said. Hacking cyber is one of the least effective things a hacker can do in combat. Even with the reduced hacking times (complex actions!?) in the current edition.

[hobgoblin]

How about this then, the hacker only uses the diagnostics access to get inside, the actual override is thanks to some undocumented "feature" of the software/firmware running the arm...

Maybe the programmers that wrote the firmware had a test interface to simulate DNI signals back when they where developing it, and just disabled the ui access to it when they shipped the final product? And the hacker is just prodding the right areas of memory to trigger that latent code, hot coffee style?

[Falconer]

I don't see the issue here.

The first problem is getting in. As a general rule wireless on stuff like that will be disabled. They make special injection vector nanites just to go in and enable wireless interfaces on things which normally have them disabled.

The other problem is signal... even if it is on.. the signal rating is pretty weak, so you need to be very close, or have a top flight directional antenna.

If you have that much cyber, you really should have some baseline cyber skills of your own for opposed tests and self-defense decking.

Similarly if things get turned off... it's not just a wink and a nod to turn them back on. Remember, the reboot rules... it takes time for devices to reboot based on their system ratings. So it's much more akin to having your leg fall asleep at the wrong point in time.. yeah you can turn it back on... but can you hold out long enough for it to come back on while it's effectively paralyzed for combat purposes.

If someone can overcome the two biggest problems... getting past shutdown interfaces... busting through the security... (especially because this stuff really should be slaved to another device w/ a much better firewall/security rating... I always liked putting in a cybercommlink in the capacity of the cyberlimb to slave all the cyber to). Then they deserve a chance to do a little bit of damage, be a little annoying.

I would balk at trying to pull off fine motor tricks... (you haven't cutoff the users mental link to the device) so it's an opposed test at best for your commands vs. his own innate mental control. Though I'd have nothing against an ongoing struggle taking place w/o the kit doing exactly what either guy wants.

[hobgoblin]

Hmm, i just had the mental image of the hacker doing a jedi handwave followed by the sound of the magazined of the guards guns hitting the floor.

[Biokinetica]

On the points concerning signal, does a rating of 0 really matter if your own is say, 3? If you're a block away in the van, then shouldn't your own 400 meter reach be enough?