Raptor Cyberleg capacity, How much? Options

[KCKitsune]

OK, I did a search, and I did not find the answer to my question.

Here's the question: Is the 10 capacity for each leg or is it 10 for the pair? Either way is fine, I just want to know that's all.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

OK, I did a search, and I did not find the answer to my question.

Here's the question: Is the 10 capacity for each leg or is it 10 for the pair? Either way is fine, I just want to know that's all.

Each Leg...

[KCKitsune]

Each Leg...

The only reason that I asked is because the wording is ambiguous.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Each Leg...

It is pretty ambiguous, but I read it as applying to each leg... Obvious FUll Limb Cyberlegs have 20 Capacity, The Raptor Legs are Obvious Cyber and the reworking of the legs cuts the available space to half (10 Capacity) for each leg rrather than 20... that is how I read it anyway...

Keep the Faith

[Shrike30]

Bulk Modification for Raptor Cyberlegs seems to be legit, too... gets you up to 14.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Bulk Modification for Raptor Cyberlegs seems to be legit, too... gets you up to 14.

Definitely...

If you are looking for a Canon support for the 10Capacity/Leg...
Hydraulic Jacks are used only in pairs, yet they take up Rating in EACH leg...

[KCKitsune]

It is pretty ambiguous, but I read it as applying to each leg... Obvious FUll Limb Cyberlegs have 20 Capacity, The Raptor Legs are Obvious Cyber and the reworking of the legs cuts the available space to half (10 Capacity) for each leg rrather than 20... that is how I read it anyway...

Keep the Faith

Raptor are for lower legs only. You don't need to replace the whole limb... at least that's how I read it.

[Rasumichin]

Raptor are for lower legs only. You don't need to replace the whole limb... at least that's how I read it.

That's right, it's just the lower legs.
I'd say that the capacity applies to each limb seperately.
In that case, capacity would be reduced by 2 per limb (as is the case with Optimized cyberlimbs as well).
If there would be only 10 oints in both legs combined, that would take up 7 points per leg, which seems a bit over the top.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

That's right, it's just the lower legs.
I'd say that the capacity applies to each limb seperately.
In that case, capacity would be reduced by 2 per limb (as is the case with Optimized cyberlimbs as well).
If there would be only 10 oints in both legs combined, that would take up 7 points per leg, which seems a bit over the top.

If it is lower leg, the joins don't function correctly for raptor legs...

For True Raptor Legs, the Hip and Knee joints MUST be reversed so that the legs function as a Quadrapeds would... Unfortunately, it appears that the Text says only Lower Legs...

With those rules, I wouls still give each leg 10 points of Capacity, obviously they do not lose any space (they make up the other 10 points of the Upper Legs)

[Rasumichin]

If it is lower leg, the joins don't function correctly for raptor legs...

For True Raptor Legs, the Hip and Knee joints MUST be reversed so that the legs function as a Quadrapeds would... Unfortunately, it appears that the Text says only Lower Legs...

With those rules, I wouls still give each leg 10 points of Capacity, obviously they do not lose any space (they make up the other 10 points of the Upper Legs)

The weird thing about lower limbs is that they have more than half of the Capacity (but then, they always used to include a replacement of the adjacent joint to anchor the limb properly).
Lower obvious cyberlegs normally have a Capacity of 12, not 10.
So the upper leg would have only a capacity of 8, resulting in an overall Capacity of 18 for full leg replacements with Raptor legs.

But yes, it's...odd that they don't include the upper leg as well.

[Traul]

For True Raptor Legs, the Hip and Knee joints MUST be reversed so that the legs function as a Quadrapeds would... Unfortunately, it appears that the Text says only Lower Legs...

I don't think so.

http://www.horseracinghistory.co.uk/hrho/i...se_skeleton.gif

All the joints keep their direction, but the main articulations are the ankle and knee, not the knee and hip. I don't know if a man could get used to stand with his thighs leaning forward instead of vertical, though, especially if he has to switch back to normal standing when he changes the modular legs.

[Stahlseele]

Back in SR3, Kid-Stealth Legs were complete replacement and only came in pairs.
I don't remember the Capacity Stuff though

[DamienKnight]

The weird thing about lower limbs is that they have more than half of the Capacity (but then, they always used to include a replacement of the adjacent joint to anchor the limb properly).
Lower obvious cyberlegs normally have a Capacity of 12, not 10.
So the upper leg would have only a capacity of 8, resulting in an overall Capacity of 18 for full leg replacements with Raptor legs.

But yes, it's...odd that they don't include the upper leg as well.

I think lower legs take up more than half capacity because they include the entire knee. If that is the case, it makes sense that the Raptor legs could be on a lower leg and not a full leg, as the differences between a real leg begin at the knee.

As far as the change in thigh muscle usage... I think adding raptor legs would require a few months of Therapy to teach and mold your muslces to the new movement, but I think the human body could handle it. Especially considering the way the muscles are attached at the knee joint would be changed as part of the process, if we assume the knee is part of the lower leg.

The character genreator spreadsheet I use has a Raptor cyberleg Full Limb replacement option, as I can see no reason why that would not be available.

[Traul]

Back in SR3, Kid-Stealth Legs were complete replacement and only came in pairs.
I don't remember the Capacity Stuff though

I think half the normal one.

[Stahlseele]

Doesn't help me much, since we essentially did away with Capacity for the Limbs to make them worth shelling out 200k or so . .
Yes, that meant you could put gear worth 900k into your Arms/Legs. If you are willing to risk losing them, more power to you . .

[Rasumichin]

One more thought :
All described modular limbs either replace a hand/foot or lower leg/lower arm.
There are no complete modular limbs.
Even if you have a complete limb replacement, the modular part is either only the lower leg/arm, the hand/foot or both.
The upper part of the limb is never modular.
There are apparently no UCCPs (Universal Cyberlimb Connector Plugs) available for the hip or shoulder joints, only for elbows, knees, wrists and ankles.
At least the description for modular limbs only mentions these.

IIRC, Kid Stealth legs weren't modular (where there even modular limbs in the cyberlimb-unfriendly previous editions?), whereas Raptor Legs most certainly are.
This explains why they've gone from full to partial cyberlimb.

[Stahlseele]

Nope, nothing modular in SR3 AT ALL.
Generally, Cyberlimbs sucked, which is why we house ruled them like that.
And why should there not be Plugs for Hips and Shoulders? Just because the Books don't mention them?
Books don't mention that Trolls can't fly either, but we don't think like that anyway, or do we? ^^

[wind_in_the_ston...]

As someone mentioned, for raptor legs all joints keep their corresponding articulations, but the joints are moved. The thigh is shortened, the shin is shortened, and the foot is very much longer. Your "backwards knees" are really your ankles. Your new foot corresponds to your original toes.

So to make this modular, the socket would be very high on the thigh. Augmented says: "Modular cyberlimbs feature a universal cyberware connector plug (UCCP) just below the wrist, elbow, ankle, or knee joint." The socket cannot be in the joint, it's got to be above or below it. I see no reason why it couldn't be above the knee. One stated use for modular limbs is for simple replacement, in the case of damage. I think you'd have about a 50/50 chance of the damage occurring in the lower half, so that's kinda useless.

Since I can't think of any rules reason for having modular sockets only below the knee, I have to assume it was simply an oversight by the writers.

I assume that the reason raptor legs are only available as modular, is because no shadowrunner in his right mind would want to draw that much attention. My current character is neither a shadowrunner, nor quite in his right mind, and disappointed that he couldn't get the legs as full-conversion, rather than modular.

[Jaid]

I assume that the reason raptor legs are only available as modular, is because no shadowrunner in his right mind would want to draw that much attention. My current character is neither a shadowrunner, nor quite in his right mind, and disappointed that he couldn't get the legs as full-conversion, rather than modular.

the obvious solution is to just get the raptor legs and sell the regular ones, assuming they come with the modular legs (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

so someone else out there gets their spare legs, and you can just wait until they come out with newer raptor legs that are twice as shiney! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)