Magic and LOS, Just what do you have to "See?" Options

[Moonstone Spider]

I've been thinking a bit lately about LOS and clothing. Do clothes count as LOS to a target?

Imagine, for instance, that a character is wearing a Ku Klux Klan outfit, and smartshades. There is no part of his body the mage can see, not a scrap of skin or hair. Can the mage cast a stunbolt on this guy? If so, why? He can't really see him. If an aura extends around the person does that mean you can stunbolt somebody from the other side of the wall if he's so close his aura goes through it? How far does this aura extend?

[Kagetenshi]

It's generally considered that the aura extends slightly beyond a person, so full clothing like that wouldn't provide protection. Someone leaning against a tent wall would be a valid target I'd say, and someone in full security armor might not be a valid target.

~J

[Herald of Verjig...]

Yes, because otherwise heavy combat armor or full biohazard suits would make you impervious to combat spells.

The "LoS to target's aura" rule has been disposed of in favor of the "shut up, he still get's hit" rule of 3rd edition.

[moosegod]

Wow. Somehow the SR team stole my GMing style before I even began playing SR.

[Zazen]

[Hecatonchires]

Here's how I have always handled it. If you can physically see someones 3d physical shell (including clothing) unaided by electronics OR their aura then they present a valid target.

Inanimate objects are not immune to spells so why would heavy armor or bio-hazard suits provide immunity? (that may be redundant)

[k1tsune]

Okay. I'm now curious. What spells can you and can you not cast on the physical body of an Awakened character who is astral projecting?

[mfb]

in 3rd ed, you can cast anything you want. you can even draw on his face with magic markers.

[k1tsune]

If that's so, then how the heck can you say the aura has anything to do with the LoS for spellcasting?

[Herald of Verjig...]

[Hecatonchires]

This may be wrong as I am only beginning to re-learn SR after a three year hiadas but this is my thought.

-Physical spells target the physical body and inanimate objects.
-Mana spells targer the aura and spirits in their astral form.
-Stun spells target only living things but affect them regardless of armor.
-Illusion spells work according to their spell descriptions.
-Healing spells work on aura.
-Manipulation spells work on the physical world and physically manifested astral beings.

Free free to call me out on anything I may have missed.

[sidartha]

The way I've allways taken the LOS rule is that the spellcastar needs a link to his target, IE the body, or any clothes that represent him/her. so you can't imagine a guy getting hit with a manabolt from across the city(unless you have a material link) you need some sort of visual link. if this is not the way the rule was meant to be interpreted the it makes the NPC's in heavy hardened military armor that much harder to deal with.

[Hecatonchires]

Mana spells pass thru armor(as do stun). Against anything that affects the physical world though, that hardened military armor is still the boss.

[toturi]

No, that vehicle you are hiding in is the boss. Better make that the ship you are hiding in.

[danbot37]

I always thought of it as you have to see where you are manipulating the mana, not necessarily your target. So clothing don't block, but a vehicle might keep you from targetting a passenger if you can't see him through a window, because you can't see the actual space he occupies.

[Guest_Artemis_*]

I think of it as the mana spells in general target the living aspects of your intended target. Regardless of whether you are split percieving or not, I think of this as the mana affecting the individual's aura and core life force. As a suit of armor contains a persona nd their life force like a tin can, I tend to think of it as a concentrated "heat-souce" of life force energy, so to speak.

Hardened armor or not, I think military and security grade armor can be cast through if there is a living person inside of it. Hiding on the opposite side of a brick wall, however, you aura and core life force are not bottled up and brighter than ever. The wall simply blocks all sight of you, physically and astrally.

A piece of clothing from something you wear oftenretains a great deal of your personal aura. I think it could easily be cast through, unless it happens to be a trailing bathrobe sash or belt.

I think a vehicle gives you enough breathing room inside that it isn't an extention of the person per say. Most vehicles dont hug the core life force of a person like a suit of armor does, and therefore are somewhat cold and mineral isntead. As we all agree, perfect cover from spells. Well, that's how I see it at least.

[lacemaker]

I think blackjack had an article on this very question, and went with the "couple of inches of aura" solution suggested above. I'll try and have a look at it sometime today and see if it adds anything.

[Hecatonchires]

Umm... or you could say that anything that a person is wearing is permeated by their aura and thus you can target someone thru armor (with mana and stun spells). Since physical spells actually have to cover the distance between, armor still applies. I personally have always thought of mana spells as suddenly manifesting damage on the target. Remember kids, in SR, spells that aren't manipulations are invisible to mundane characters unless stated otherwise.

This could all be redundant as I didn't do more than skim the above posts.

[BitBasher]

[Cain]

Ok, look at it this way. Living things have auras. Even when a mage is astrally projecting, his body is still alive, and therefore has an aura. It may not be the full astral presence, but it's still alive. (Besides which, IIRC inanimate objects have auras as well. Otherwise, you couldn't cast Wreck or any spell that targets a machine.)

[Zazen]

Mundane inanimate objects have no auras. The term is reserved for things which are alive or astral or both.

[Birdy]

The rules may say different but if (like me) you consider mages too powerful:

- Anything that fully encloses the character is considered a vehicle

MilSpec/Security armor is fully sealed => vehicle
Armore clothing is not
Cammo armor is not
FFBA is not

You can still target the armor.


Michael


Give SecGuards a chance - kill your party mage right now

[toturi]

[Birdy]

[BitBasher]

He has (a) port(s) for his spur(s)? Very possible.