Still Goblinizing?, Can people still goblinize? Options

[DeathStrobe]

Can people still goblinize? I assume no, but it happened once where my friend wanted to make a simsense star that goblinized and then started to run the shadows because of the fact he is now an ugly troll. I let it pass thinking that goblinization can still happen every once in a while, but looking through the books, I couldn't find any information that supported people randomly goblinizing after 2021.

I guess SURGE is kind of Goblinizing 2.0, so it might have made sense that way, maybe...

But at the same time, I know I can always just house rule it, but knowing I have some RAW that might back me up would be kind of nice.

[HappyDaze]

Some children born to ingentis and robustus parents appear to be sapiens only to fully express at puberty. So yes, it's possible... mostly.

[Karoline]

Some children born to ingentis and robustus parents appear to be sapiens only to fully express at puberty. So yes, it's possible... mostly.

Exactly. Heck, read the intro run in the front of the SR4 book. One of the characters is a 'princess' (or heiress or something similar) who goblinized into a troll.

[Ol' Scratch]

Metahumanity's genepool is still way too diverse. Goblinization (and even UGE babies, though the U is a little less U now) will likely continue on for a good long while until (and if) people start to only breed with their own race. Since that's likely not going to happen in modern society... well, nuff said really.

[imperialus]

Isn't Brakhaven's niece an Ork?

[Dread Moores]

Brackhaven (the real one) was as well.

[Professor Evil O...]

Can people still goblinize? I assume no, but it happened once where my friend wanted to make a simsense star that goblinized and then started to run the shadows because of the fact he is now an ugly troll. I let it pass thinking that goblinization can still happen every once in a while, but looking through the books, I couldn't find any information that supported people randomly goblinizing after 2021.

I guess SURGE is kind of Goblinizing 2.0, so it might have made sense that way, maybe...

But at the same time, I know I can always just house rule it, but knowing I have some RAW that might back me up would be kind of nice.

In fact, one of the SURGE affects in Year of the Comet (the SR3 book that covered, among other things, SURGE actually happening) was goblinization - humans to orks/trolls and metas into variants. It was pretty darn unlikely on the random tables, but it was possible. That should be a good enough fluff justification. Note that no such quality exists in SR4 (you'd just pay the points for your race as normal) so don't go looking for a goblinized quality.

[brennanhawkwood]

The rule of thumb in my group is that "un-inherited" goblinization (where you have no known predecessors that are troll/ork as opposed to the 'human' child of a troll/ork expressing in their teen years) generally doesn't happen anymore. If you've got the genes, they would have expressed by now. On the other hand, the world is an odd place and exceptions do happen, though rarely and becoming more and more rare as more time passes since the original waves of goblinization. Year of the Comet style SURGE effects would count as an 'externally' induced exception.

While this is the way our group plays it and thus not official, it does seem to match reasonably well with the way things are portrayed in the game books.

[mielikki]

As to the genetic predisposition to meta - how strong is the meta gene? A human-ork couple has a 50% chance of having a human child, 50% ork child. How likely is the human child, with a human partner, to have an ork child? And what is the chance that in the event these two have a human child, it will goblinize in puberty?

[Draco18s]

In fact, one of the SURGE affects in Year of the Comet

You mean "effects."

[Jaid]

in general, it is still a possibility for two humans to have a metahuman child (or a child that goblinizes later). but it is stated to be rare, and getting even more rare. now, that said, if you want to have it happen for a character's background, go ahead and have it happen. just because it's unlikely doesn't mean it can't happen, after all... just understand that the character has gone through something that not many other people will have in that age range.

[Draco18s]

in general, it is still a possibility for two humans to have a metahuman child (or a child that goblinizes later). but it is stated to be rare, and getting even more rare. now, that said, if you want to have it happen for a character's background, go ahead and have it happen. just because it's unlikely doesn't mean it can't happen, after all... just understand that the character has gone through something that not many other people will have in that age range.

It's about as rare as being a mage, right? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[Karoline]

It's about as rare as being a mage, right? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

So according to fluff about less than 1%, but according to the gaming table, roughly 75%?

[Draco18s]

So according to fluff about less than 1%, but according to the gaming table, roughly 75%?

About that, yes.

[Dogsoup]

Is it possible for individual tresholds in the ambient mana level required for goblinization? Let's say one dude would goblinize in 2011 but the soon-to-be orc person standing next to him wouldn't because this other person needs a richer mana environment to transform.

[Karoline]

Is it possible for individual tresholds in the ambient mana level required for goblinization? Let's say one dude would goblinize in 2011 but the soon-to-be orc person standing next to him wouldn't because this other person needs a richer mana environment to transform.

I would imagine so, otherwise YotC wouldn't have caused anyone to goblinize. It is the same thing for SURGElings, they just required a high level of mana in order to SURGE. It would have happened eventually without the comet, but it might not have started happening for another 20 or 50 or 100 years.

[MindandPen]

Can people still goblinize? I assume no, but it happened once where my friend wanted to make a simsense star that goblinized and then started to run the shadows because of the fact he is now an ugly troll. I let it pass thinking that goblinization can still happen every once in a while, but looking through the books, I couldn't find any information that supported people randomly goblinizing after 2021.

I guess SURGE is kind of Goblinizing 2.0, so it might have made sense that way, maybe...

But at the same time, I know I can always just house rule it, but knowing I have some RAW that might back me up would be kind of nice.

The first metatypes to appear were dwarfs and elves born during the first wave of UGE (Unexpected Genetic Expression) in 2011. Orks and trolls appeared ten years later, during the period of “Goblinization,” when many humans suddenly transformed. Now a half century past the Awakening, goblinization is exceedingly rare, occurring only to humans, usually during puberty.

In 2072, most metahumans are born to parents of the same metatype. In the case of mixed parents, the child has a roughly even chance of being born as the metatype of either the father or the mother. There are no “half-breeds” in the Sixth World—no elf-orks or dwarf-trolls, no matter how amusing the concept may be.

[Karoline]

Hehe, dwarf-troll. That would be awesome. I should make a dwarf character that thinks he's a troll, or a troll that thinks he's a dwarf. Or maybe one that is a dwarf-troll offspring and so decides to try and be both dwarf and troll like... perhaps despite being human (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Caadium]

Hehe, dwarf-troll. That would be awesome. I should make a dwarf character that thinks he's a troll, or a troll that thinks he's a dwarf. Or maybe one that is a dwarf-troll offspring and so decides to try and be both dwarf and troll like... perhaps despite being human (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Dwarf changeling with things like dermal deposits, etc.

[nylanfs]

My current Troll runner is using this background. She was born to human parents, but goblinized at puberty. But since people had already experienced the transition (the first time) she wasn't ostracized and had a "fairly" normal childhood.

And on a similar note, I wonder how many inter-meta adoptions there are? Ie humans adopting orks and dwarves and vis-versa.

[Karoline]

My current Troll runner is using this background. She was born to human parents, but goblinized at puberty. But since people had already experienced the transition (the first time) she wasn't ostracized and had a "fairly" normal childhood.

And on a similar note, I wonder how many inter-meta adoptions there are? Ie humans adopting orks and dwarves and vis-versa.

I'd imagine that adoption rates of elf females would be high among humans, and most other inter-meta adoptions would be notably rarer. I suppose humans adopting elf males and elves adopting human males/females would be the next most common. Maybe humans adopting dwarves after that... I'd imagine inter-meta involving trolls or orks in either direction (though especially with the troll/ork being the child) would be fairly rare. I suppose adopting an ork/troll male would be more common than a female though (because males are supposed to be tough and strong and such).

Just my thoughts on the subject.

[Ol' Scratch]

In 2072, most metahumans are born to parents of the same metatype.

I take issue with this part of the canon. It assumes that people will spontaneously become monogamous (I'm sure that's the wrong word) within their own meta type and metavariant type. There's just no way that's going to be the case, even with some of the less attractive and more brutish types. The only way it's going to happen is if fertility rates for interracial breeding were to begin plummeting. Otherwise, and particularly with the more attractive races (which is very much still going to be based on the human/elven ideals of beauty this soon after the Awakening), it's pure hogwash.

And because of that fact, not to mention just how fucked up metahumanity's genepool is courtesy of the 5th World, goblinization, UGE, SURGE, and other related phenomena will and should continue for a good long while. There simply hasn't been enough time or motivation for the multi-generational, same-race relationships necessary to clean it up.

[Jaid]

I take issue with this part of the canon. It assumes that people will spontaneously become monogamous (I'm sure that's the wrong word) within their own meta type and metavariant type. There's just no way that's going to be the case, even with some of the less attractive and more brutish types. The only way it's going to happen is if fertility rates for interracial breeding were to begin plummeting. Otherwise, and particularly with the more attractive races (which is very much still going to be based on the human/elven ideals of beauty this soon after the Awakening), it's pure hogwash.

And because of that fact, not to mention just how fucked up metahumanity's genepool is courtesy of the 5th World, goblinization, UGE, SURGE, and other related phenomena will and should continue for a good long while. There simply hasn't been enough time or motivation for the multi-generational, same-race relationships necessary to clean it up.

i assume the meaning is that at least one of the parents is of the same metatype. ie you don't often see 2 humans have an elf child, or a troll and an ork have a dwarf child; in the first example, it's usually going to be a human, in the second example, it will usually be an ork or a troll.

[Catadmin]

I take issue with this part of the canon. It assumes that people will spontaneously become monogamous (I'm sure that's the wrong word) within their own meta type and metavariant type.

But isn't that exactly what happened in the 6th world when everyone went all "Hate the Race"?

Sure, there are still people who don't care about race, but the whole Humanis Policlub and everything that came after still tends to segregate people whether or not the minorities want to be segregated. When the world changes so violently, people try to stick with the old status quo. It's safer, more secure. And a lot of crap happened during the Awakening.

I'm not saying it agrees with our modern culture, but remember, this has been set up through several editions of SR. Not just SR4. And if you look at the late, lamented Earthdawn connection, it makes sense that the story line is moving things back to the "original reality".

Of course, that poses the question, are metahumans going to start being incapable of inter-breeding with other races / variants in the near future?

[Brett]

I know the timeline is "off" from what I recall in first and second edition, but in Changeling, the main character goes through Goblinization in 2039, 18 years after the event.

http://pl.shadowrun.wikia.com/wiki/Changeling

I'm still reading through my LE book, so I'm still catching up on all the changes from my memory.