Dark path of Resonance Options

[Stingray]

(away from books)
Mage/Shamans have their "dark" paths (Toxic- , Blood- )
Adepts have their own (.. cannibalism, etc..)
but does Technomancers have their own "Twisted" dark paths of Resonance?

[Udoshi]

Yes. Its called the Dissonance.

Its kind of like the difference between a clear signal and garbled noise.

The dissonance isn't evil, per se, but it represents all the annoying, frustrating, pain in the ass things of dealing with computers, plus more than a touch of maliciousness.
One of their paragons is basically the internet gods of blue screens of death. I'm pretty sure there's another one for unrecoverable data loss.

[LurkerOutThere]

Actually the disonance are pretty much laid out and straight up evil, their membership roster (people like Pax) doesn't do anything to dispel that.

[SpellBinder]

If the toxic paths of magic are "misunderstood", then so would the disonance paths as well. From what I recall reading about them, they're not "misunderstood", especially if IIRC one of them wants to wipe out the current Matrix entirely and rebuild it from the groundwork up.

[Yerameyahu]

Basically the same as the Toxics. So yes, neither is 'misunderstood', except if you understand them to be not evil. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Lansdren]

If the toxic paths of magic are "misunderstood", then so would the disonance paths as well. From what I recall reading about them, they're not "misunderstood", especially if IIRC one of them wants to wipe out the current Matrix entirely and rebuild it from the groundwork up.

I cant see how the toxic are misunderstood.


they are pretty much your basic dark side

[Teryn180]

I think there's something in the fluff about them in Unwired saying they're all insane, don't think there was anything about it being a requirement or a side effect though.

[PoliteMan]

As I recall, when a Techno or Otaku first encountered the Resonance or "awaken" some react badly and basically go insane.

[Mardrax]

It's not about insanity, folks. Toxic paths and dissonance streams aren't Mental Disorder Negative Qualities.
They're a belief system, a way of thinking unaccepted by, and varying from that of cultural norms.
Of course, that can easily classified as a mental disorder. But it's not madness for the most part. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rollin.gif)

[TheWanderingJewe...]

one of the dissonance paths might look like this (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Shub-Internet /shuhb' in't*r-net/ /n./
[MUD: from H. P. Lovecraft's evil fictional deity Shub-Niggurath, the Black Goat with a Thousand Young] The harsh personification of the Internet, Beast of a Thousand Processes, Eater of Characters, Avatar of Line Noise, and Imp of Call Waiting; the hideous multi-tendriled entity formed of all the manifold connections of the net. A sect of MUDders worships Shub-Internet, sacrificing objects and praying for good connections. To no avail -- its purpose is malign and evil, and is the cause of all network slowdown. Often heard as in "Freela casts a tac nuke at Shub-Internet for slowing her down." (A forged response often follows along the lines of: "Shub-Internet gulps down the tac nuke and burps happily.") Also cursed by users of the Web, FTP and TELNET when the system slows down. The dread name of Shub-Internet is seldom spoken aloud, as it is said that repeating it three times will cause the being to wake, deep within its lair beneath the Pentagon.

[Nyost Akasuke]

It's not about insanity, folks. Toxic paths and dissonance streams aren't Mental Disorder Negative Qualities.
They're a belief system, a way of thinking unaccepted by, and varying from that of cultural norms.
Of course, that can easily classified as a mental disorder. But it's not madness for the most part. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rollin.gif)

I think that even among Toxics and Dissonants, there's some you could consider totally psycho. Some Toxics/Dissonants actually have some sort of logical process or mentality behind what they do.. others, in the words of that one movie, ''Just want to watch the world burn'' for no other reason than watching it burn.

You can't really get any closer to psycho than that, I believe, without making everything justifiable in some way to not be a mental disorder...

...Unless you're an insect shaman maybe.

[Eimi]

Basically, they're insane in a way that defines their character without it being a Quality one can buy. More of a whole-character holistic insanity that can't be snipped off with enough therapy sessions or time in a brainwashing machine.

[Yerameyahu]

Beliefs can be (are? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) ) insane, though. I dunno why we have this discussion every time these topics come up. Toxics and Dissonants are negative. Done. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Fortinbras]

A technomancer in my game encountered a Dissonant sprite and asked "What's Dissonance?"

I said "4chan"

That pretty much summed it up.

[Nyost Akasuke]

^ You are my hero

@ Yerameyahu: For the sake of everyone's sanity, I can roll with that. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rollin.gif)

[Yerameyahu]

Heh, Fortinbras, that's exactly what I've always thought. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Mardrax]

I bring it up because I'm of the opinion that stripping them of their skewed morality aspect, and turning their logic in apparrent madness, into just plain madness strips them of their scariest part.
A lot are just pyromaniacs, but are actually looking to better the world.

[Yerameyahu]

Ah, I see. I misunderstood, because I view them as evil *and* insane, never 'merely insane'. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Although the difference can certainly be argued, as can the existence of a difference. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Digital Heroin]

I think that even among Toxics and Dissonants, there's some you could consider totally psycho. Some Toxics/Dissonants actually have some sort of logical process or mentality behind what they do.. others, in the words of that one movie, ''Just want to watch the world burn'' for no other reason than watching it burn.

You can't really get any closer to psycho than that, I believe, without making everything justifiable in some way to not be a mental disorder...

...Unless you're an insect shaman maybe.

This is true of any society or strata of people. Hell, there are people considered run of the mil runners that are more crazy and destructive than any toxic or blood shaman, they just do not have access to the same power levels. That holds for politicians, military types, paper boys, hackers, or even your dentist.

[Fortinbras]

If blood mages, toxics, dissonants and the like aren't evil, then they really aren't anything. At least from a storytelling standpoint. Take away the "I'm going to destroy the world" aspect and replace it with "I'm not bad, I'm just drawn that way." then they're just another weird thing in a weird world, without emotional resonance or symbolism. They just are.

If that's the case, they stop being toxics or dissonants, then they're just mages and technomancers. If they aren't evil, or more accurately, if they are antagonists, then what purpose do they serve? There are a thousand schools of magic and if toxics and blood magic are just two different schools of thought, then why mention them at all. Heck, Druids make better bad guys than just some mage who happens to use blood because at least Druids have a rich history, back story and agenda.

Assume you and your players have the traditional view of blood mages and your GM says "You get a call from your fixer saying a group of blood mages are kidnapping kids from the barrens." Now you've got this creepy, cult-like group of secretive ner-do-wells taking SINless children for any number of nafarious schemes, none of them good, all of them disturbing. Now you've got a game going!

Your way entails "You get a call from your fixer saying a group of blood mages are kidnapping kids from the barrens." Your group says "Oh, well blood mages aren't really bad guys, but I guess we should stop the kidnappers anyhow."
You could take away the "blood mage" part and replace it with anything. Clowns, hippies, robocops, whatever. If blood mages or any of the other Threats aren't evil, then it serves no purpose to identify them at all.

You can view specific morality any way you want, but when you do, you make an interesting game infinitely more boring.

[Digital Heroin]

Fortinbras, to say that Blood Mages and Toxic are evil/antagonistic because it makes them more interesting is to pigionhole the definition of antagonism in a game. Knight Errant, the UCAS government, and circus clowns could all equally be antagonistic in a game, as could a mage of another tradition, or a technomancer who is trying to destroy the world without going the dissonant path. The blood/toxic/dissonant traditions are outside of societal norms, which gets them branded evil, but that does not make every member evil.

[Fortinbras]

So why have them at all?

[Digital Heroin]

Because they are a flavour that had not been around before. On the same token why have smugglers when they don't have a defined morality? Or megas, which are not evil but sure can be antagonistic? The books have provided options. If you choose to make them evil in your world, awesome, you have my full support because it works for you and you have fun with it. I prefer to present some of these type of people as pure and vile evil, while others are misguided souls who lost their way, and others are crusading for a good (or socially acceptible) agenda, but with an ends justify the means mentality. That, to me, is where things get interesting, because each has its own flavor, and no one can instantly go 'oh it's toxic that makes it bad' and be one hundred percent right (unless they hate toxics for some reason, and then have at 'er). Variety does not boring make, it staves that stale cookie cutter boring off.

[Fortinbras]

If that's the case, they aren't blood mages. They're mages. They aren't dissonant technomancer, they're just technomancers.
Mega Corps are antagonist because, in a distopian universe, they are evil. It's they nature of what they do. They are legally bound, by their shareholders, to do evil things; i.e. plow over peoples homes to build mini-malls and automate entire workforces just to save a few pennies. Now I'm sure they can justify what they do, but to the average runner on the street, that's evil.
If your AAA corps don't do this, then they aren't Triple A Mega Corporations of the future. They're just corporations. Like the ones we work for. Dull and without any emotional resonance for they player.

Same with Lone Star. In the distopian world of Shadowrun, cops become corrupt. It's inevitable. Maybe they started out with good intentions, but that's just the world in which they live. Good cops get shot, either by that one CI they trusted or by the other boys in blue for not playing ball, or they get turned because staying clean doesn't pay the rent. Not in 2070, anyway. These cats also justify what they do, but that doesn't stop it from being evil.
Again, otherwise they aren't Lone Star, they're just cops. Like they one who pulled you over for speeding or showed up for a domestic complaint down the street.

Blood mages kill others to fuel their own power. If they don't, then they aren't really blood mages. They're just mages. Or shamans or druids or Zarathustra followers or any number of other words that hold no meaning and don't make me think of anything.
Take patty's game. As I understand it, they play a group of toxic shamans who go around rescuing little old ladies and handing money out to the poor while blowing up evil mega corps. How is that game changed at all if I remove the word 'toxic' from that sentence? It doesn't, making a toxic shaman an irrelevant differentiation.
For the same reason we don't say a middle child shaman or Asian shaman or prefers strawberry to chocolate shaman.

I don't want blood or toxic or dissonant to be irrelevant distinctions. I want them to mean something. They should have some sort of resonance behind them, otherwise there isn't a playable difference.

As I said before, Dissonance is 4chan. I'm sure they can justify it, but all in all, it's pretty evil.

[Nyost Akasuke]

Yeah, Toxics/Bloods/Dissonants are generally evil... but only part of the whole ''big evil creepy bad guy'' thing is their mentality. Many of the Twisted Paths of a Magician follow a similar thought process/insanity as say.. a Toxic Havoc or Toxic Reaper, and I feel safe to assume that there could also be ''Twisted'' Technomancers (Though I haven't read on them.. I haven't particularly explored all of Unwired yet).

The other part is the abilities themselves. Dissonants, Toxics, Insect Shamans.. all of them have ''unique'' magics (or ''Resonant'') abilities that instill fear into others. For hackers and Technomancers, a Dissonant sometimes represents the failure of code.. which may very well be the Hacker/Techno's whole ideology.. that's what they've built their lives around... slinging code... and in the presence of a Dissonance-cursed Techno, everything they've come to know about their virtual world can be shattered, disrupted, turned into nothing but static. For Mages, A Toxic uses magic that is perhaps the very antithesis to ''natural'' magic, which they use for their spells. An Insect Shaman frightens others because he summons spirits who's mentality and outlook on human life is truly alien to them.. without emotion.. driven solely by a desire to consume all other things and herd them like cattle.

Stripping away the ''evil'' of a Toxic/Blood/Dissonant doesn't necessarily strip away the abilities. That's why I always thought it would be an interesting concept to create a ''non-evil'' Dark magician of any path.. or similarly a Dissonant if that isn't impossible. As far as the storytelling perspective goes.. it offers new and sometimes morally wrenching decisions and actions. What if a group of runners suddenly discovered their Mage had gone Blood/Toxic? He's not necessarily bad.. he's not running around making sacrifices out of innocent people or propagating some sort of mutagenic plague. Whatever his reason, are the runners now in the same position as John Q Public who believes any Mage can blow up two city blocks with a Fireball spell and still be able to stand amongst the debris?

In my opinion, a Blood or Toxic should mean something, but it doesn't have to mean something bad.. that's just extremely limiting. In all honesty, the possibility is there.. It would just be nice for people to actually look at it the way it can be, from a roleplaying perspective and not a technical one, instead of the way it was intended to be. (Not pointing any fingers)