Two idle musings, Negotations and reasons for two guns... Options

[Siege]

1. If a character is involved in Negotations (the skill), would you apply Ettiquette as a comp bonus?

2. Having watched "Underworld" (again) for the silly eye candy, it does provide an easy justification for why a character might be interested in two gun shooting.

Anything as big and ugly as the oversized, naked, mutant rats charging down a hallway and is focused on eating your spleen with a side of relish -- putting as many rounds as possible into the target would be a good thing.

Now, admittedly, odds are you will never be attacked by a big, ugly thing in real life that a single gun couldn't take care of.

However, in SR, scenarios like that in the dark, gritty and usually silly lives of shadowrunners is all too common. :grinbig:

-Siege

[Niallan Zheng]

I was just investigating using two guns in combat, and a physical adept with Ambidexterity +0/+0, the adept version of wired reflexes, +6 Pistols skill, and a pair of guns capable of burst fire... well, it gets really nasty really fast for anything not in hardened military armor and with a high body.

[Voran]

[Austere Emancipa...]

Modified Beretta M92FS's, 15 rounds each indeed. The rate of fire is probably around 1100rpm (based on the RoF of the M93R), so the 15 rounds will last you a whopping 0.82 seconds.

It'd probably be a whole lot more effective just using one gun and aiming better. Unfortunately movie people aren't good shooters, so they'll need all the full-auto guns they can get. That goes for many SR characters as well.

And no, wouldn't use Etiquette as Complementary to Negotations.

[Siege]

[Siege]

[mcb]

I would still bet that most people out there weather they have training or not would put more rounds on target shooting one handgun at a time. Even if they are shooting at big nasty rats. Without lots and lots of practive shooting two gun as once you will almost always miss with the gun in your non-dominate hand/eye. And if they are not full auto weapons you can probable sustain a higher rate of fire concentrating on one semi-auto then two. Two gun is still a movie eye candy thing, as cool as it is, I have never seen a practial situation where it gave someone an edge.

mcb

[Siege]

[Nikoli]

I'd liek to also point out that a pistol should be fully capable of laying down suppressive fire even without autofire capability, just check Resevoir Dogs, Mr. Pink fires off like ten quick fire rounds, was lucky to get near a wall and the cops duck like the smart folks they were. Someone shoots at you, likely to hit ot not and you'll run for cover too.
Tales of Murphy's law still abound for a very good reason

[mcb]

Sure cowboys use to lay down cover fire with lever action rifles and single action revolvers, at least in the old western movies. :-D

mcb

[Nikoli]

With fanning, that's possible.
Innacurate, but possible.

[mcb]

Why fan? You don't need a very high rate of fire to make the other guys keep their heads down. Just make them think there being shot at.

[Nikoli]

well, a string os cats and bucket will do that just nicely then

[Beast of Revolut...]

I would use a pair of semi-autos. No need for uzis.

[gknoy]

[mcb]

I think an average strength person could manage the recoil of a pair of 9mm, 38 super or similar cartridges for a very close range fight. Longer ranges or heavier cartridges could definitely pose problems.

Another aspect of duel wielding handguns would be sustainable fire. Sure you can dump two magazine in short order (not all together useless) but now you have two empty weapons and both hand are full. So unless you have one of those cool backpacks Laura Croft had in the first Tomb Raider movie you now have to set one weapon down or holster it and retrieve a magazine loading the first weapon and then do the same for the second weapon. You could sustain longer duration cove fire leaving the off hand free for quick magazine exchange.

mcb

[kevyn668]

Not to get picky but most of the "people" using two guns are well above average strength and/or skill.

[mfb]

so are most of the SR characters that do it.

when i'm running a game, though, i tend to rule that if you can put 6+ rounds downrange in a single pass, you can do suppressive fire.

[kevyn668]

Thats my point.

[mfb]

it's worth pointing out that most of the shots fired in movies--just as in real life--are misses. the problem with SR combat is, it's too efficent. even in movies, no one acts with the same impossible economy of motion and action that SR characters take for granted. they spend time doing things like moving to cover, aiming, taking stock of the situation, etcetera. because SR's system doesn't encourage that sort of behavior, it feels strange and wrong when double-fisted shooting sprees don't net a casualty for every two or three bullets. everyone's used to making a hit at least once a round, if not more; when it takes two or three rounds of continuous firing to get a kill, you end up feeling cheated.

[kevyn668]

I hear ya, mfb. Most of my characters don't use FA because I hate being "shackled" with the complex action if I can avoid it. I have a problem with giving up one of those simple actions...It really sucks when I try to play a magician. :)

[mcb]

One think I actually like about Dream Pod 9 (Heavy Gear, Tribes, etc..) core system is that they actually have a game mechanism in place for the effects of cover/suppressive fire. It seem a pretty good thing. It basically boils down to if your characters area is subject to suppressive fire then any action that could possibly expose you to that fire require a will power test before you can do them. Just some food for thought.

[FlakJacket]

Easy way to get around that is to simply add a lanyard ring to the base of the handle like the British army did with revolvers.

[Moon-Hawk]

[Solidcobra]

remember: you can always reload the guns the payne way... that is:
Step 1: Spin in kickass fashion
Step 2: Reloaded!