 Supressive Fire..., ...using Grenade Launchers? |
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 Mar 8 2012, 10:46 PM
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#1
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Shooting Target  Group: Members Posts: 1,665 Joined: 26-April 03 From: Sweden Member No.: 4,516  |
With the FA capable Grenade launcher, and the rules in War! for Supressive Fire using SA weapons, it is now possible to use Supressive fire with grenade launchers.
How would you people resolve this? Especially with the FA version, there will be explosions galore somewhere... Has this come up in anyone elses game? |
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Mar 8 2012, 11:45 PM
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#2
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Immortal Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,358 Joined: 2-December 07 From: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Member No.: 14,465 |
With Suppressive Fire from a bullet-firing weapon, you can suppress a doorway, window, or even an alleyway.
With Suppressive Fire from a full-auto grenade launcher, you can suppress a STREET. (You also decrease the property value in the area by a significant amount and cause people to move away RFQ.). |
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Mar 8 2012, 11:55 PM
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#3
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,665 Joined: 26-April 03 From: Sweden Member No.: 4,516 |
Yeah, but how do you determine who is within blast radius and not? Scatter? Damage? (still go 'half base damage' for SA weapons, for instance?)
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Mar 9 2012, 12:06 AM
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#4
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Immortal Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,358 Joined: 2-December 07 From: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Member No.: 14,465 |
QUOTE (snowRaven @ Mar 8 2012, 07:55 PM)  Yeah, but how do you determine who is within blast radius and not? Scatter? Damage? (still go 'half base damage' for SA weapons, for instance?) I plead the Fifth. "You're Canadian, you don't have The Fifth." I'm drinking a Fifth. "You have no booze in the house." Shut up, they don't know that. "I just told them." Damnit inner voice, stay inner!Have to read the rules again... Which means, *shudder*, opening War!. |
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Mar 9 2012, 12:54 AM
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#5
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,665 Joined: 26-April 03 From: Sweden Member No.: 4,516 |
QUOTE (CanRay @ Mar 9 2012, 01:06 AM) I plead the Fifth. "You're Canadian, you don't have The Fifth." I'm drinking a Fifth. "You have no booze in the house." Shut up, they don't know that. "I just told them." Damnit inner voice, stay inner! Have to read the rules again... Which means, *shudder*, opening War!. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) |
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Mar 9 2012, 01:30 AM
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#6
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Advocatus Diaboli Group: Members Posts: 13,994 Joined: 20-November 07 From: USA Member No.: 14,282 |
Yeah, I'd do something like 'suppress a larger area than bullets do' and just use the basic flat DV no-net-hits rules of Suppression. Just assume that the whole area gets evenly-distributed blasts. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Maybe remove the prone and Edge effects entirely?
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Mar 9 2012, 01:42 AM
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#7
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,665 Joined: 26-April 03 From: Sweden Member No.: 4,516 |
Using impact-triggered minigrenades I'm thinking doing it just like bullets - no reason not to, really - and only trigger the area blasts if someone is hit.
Otherwise, I'm thinking targeting a circle instead of a cone - launcher style arc and cover a circle of ground. Question is how big a circle, and how to handle dodging (presumably even on full-auto the entire circle wouldn't be exploding at once for the entire time). Maybe let ppl get the standard defense roll to find cover/get out of the area before the fun starts? Anyone caught in the middle of it all once the 'nades start going off will take standard damage (no drop off) - more if they glitch/critical glitch their defense? I have a player who loves explosives, and so far he only has an SA launcher - but I know he's gonna aim for FA sooner or later...it's bound to be nasty. |
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Mar 9 2012, 01:46 AM
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#8
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Advocatus Diaboli Group: Members Posts: 13,994 Joined: 20-November 07 From: USA Member No.: 14,282 |
Mostly my table just doesn't use grenades. We understand that they're preposterously cheap, very deadly, and crazy loud. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Yeah, I can see both of your solutions. Personally, I don't think I'd *opt* to suppress with grenades; that's expensive, even at SR4 grenade prices. |
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Mar 9 2012, 01:56 AM
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#9
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,665 Joined: 26-April 03 From: Sweden Member No.: 4,516 |
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Mar 9 2012, 02:46 AM) Mostly my table just doesn't use grenades. We understand that they're preposterously cheap, very deadly, and crazy loud. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Yeah, I can see both of your solutions. Personally, I don't think I'd *opt* to suppress with grenades; that's expensive, even at SR4 grenade prices. When trying to cover hos traces after a theft at MIT&T, this player blew out half of the building...mostly unintentional. Arranging for a diversion to slow security coming up an elevator, he dropped an entire back-pack full of C14 on a timer down the shaft. The team just barely made it out of the blast radius before the entire penthouse went bye-bye. Most recently, we ran the Burning Bridges SRM and he managed to disintegrate a sizeable chunk of the brooklyn side caisson. Each incident was with a different character, and the last (and current) didn't even have Demolitions. His most recent explosives-related feat was taking out a 12 man mounted go-gang with 2 grenades... (...and you wonder why I want to enforce hit caps at my table... pfft! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) ) |
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Mar 9 2012, 02:04 AM
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#10
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Advocatus Diaboli Group: Members Posts: 13,994 Joined: 20-November 07 From: USA Member No.: 14,282 |
He seems like a liability, as a shadowrunner. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
Yeah, there was one big scene that two of us just ruined in a game once, because a couple UBGLs that we barely knew how to use destroyed huge amounts of the opposition. They're just fully game-breaking. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif) Demolitions shouldn't be defaultable. Solved. |
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Mar 9 2012, 03:12 AM
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#11
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Prime Runner Ascendant Group: Members Posts: 17,568 Joined: 26-March 09 From: Aurora, Colorado Member No.: 17,022 |
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Mar 8 2012, 07:04 PM) He seems like a liability, as a shadowrunner. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Yeah, there was one big scene that two of us just ruined in a game once, because a couple UBGLs that we barely knew how to use destroyed huge amounts of the opposition. They're just fully game-breaking. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif) Demolitions shouldn't be defaultable. Solved. Definitely a liability, as a Shadowrunner... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I don't know. Keeping Demolitions Defaultable WILL weed out the Incompetant Idiots trying it. Seen it happen IRL, why should a game be any different? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) |
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Mar 9 2012, 03:16 AM
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#12
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Advocatus Diaboli Group: Members Posts: 13,994 Joined: 20-November 07 From: USA Member No.: 14,282 |
I mean, by that logic, everything is defaultable. Hehe.
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Mar 9 2012, 03:19 AM
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#13
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Prime Runner Ascendant Group: Members Posts: 17,568 Joined: 26-March 09 From: Aurora, Colorado Member No.: 17,022 |
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Mar 8 2012, 08:16 PM) I mean, by that logic, everything is defaultable. Hehe. Well, a lot of things, anyways. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) |
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Mar 9 2012, 03:21 AM
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#14
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Horror Group: Members Posts: 5,322 Joined: 15-June 05 From: BumFuck, New Jersey Member No.: 7,445 |
With a fully-automatic grenade launcher, just pick a 90-deegree cone from your current location. Everyone and everything you have line of sight to in that arc within 500 meters that isn't behind a hardened wall is Suppressed. Alternatively, if you're fighting in a built-up area, just pick a dramatic direction - such as "north along the street" or "every high wall on the west side of the street." Everything that meets those (GM-approved) criterion is suppressed.
Remember, suppressing with an automatic grenade launcher is second only to suppression fire from a vehicular autocannon. You're shelling the whole damn area. If it wasn't a warzone before, it'll become one when the High-Threat Response team shows up. |
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Mar 9 2012, 03:48 AM
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#15
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,665 Joined: 26-April 03 From: Sweden Member No.: 4,516 |
Yeah, problem is that 20 grenades won't really effectively cover a 500 meter long cone, unless you do imact-triggered of course. I'm figuring more you can pick an area of roughly 50m diameter, and guarantee that everything in there takes more or less full damage.
The main problem comes from handling suppression with a Semi-auto GL, and that's what I can't quite get to work using existing suppression rules from War!... |
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Mar 9 2012, 05:07 AM
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#16
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Horror Group: Members Posts: 5,322 Joined: 15-June 05 From: BumFuck, New Jersey Member No.: 7,445 |
QUOTE (snowRaven @ Mar 8 2012, 10:48 PM) Yeah, problem is that 20 grenades won't really effectively cover a 500 meter long cone, unless you do imact-triggered of course. I'm figuring more you can pick an area of roughly 50m diameter, and guarantee that everything in there takes more or less full damage. Frankly, I'm amazed that grenades from any kind of launcher have any options other than impact and air-burst. Frankly, they should all be impact with an air-burst option. I was expecting impact, by the way. Just shell the whole friggin' neighborhood. Everybody will get their heads down when that much shrapnel starts a-flyin'. QUOTE The main problem comes from handling suppression with a Semi-auto GL, and that's what I can't quite get to work using existing suppression rules from War!... Well, the point of suppression fire is to make someone get down behind cover and stay down behind cover. You may be overthinking this one. Just launch a grenade somewhere into his immediate vicinity. It's not like with bullets where you need a lot of them to spook someone into getting down. They'll be shouting "Full defense! Full defense!" faster than you can say "Airburst Link" when you start lobbing grenades at their position. And that means they're not going to be acting in the next IP, because they pre-spent it diving for cover. |
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Mar 9 2012, 06:31 AM
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#17
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 821 Joined: 4-December 09 Member No.: 17,940 |
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Mar 9 2012, 04:12 AM) Definitely a liability, as a Shadowrunner... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I don't know. Keeping Demolitions Defaultable WILL weed out the Incompetant Idiots trying it. Seen it happen IRL, why should a game be any different? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Cyberpunk used a simple rule : trained user failed to get teh desired result and blew themselves up with a fumble. Untrained attempts made every failure a fumble. This tended to weed out the wanabee quickly and effectively. In SR4 rules, having 'gremlins' like extraglitch cances could to the trick, with a severity adjusted by how touchy an explosive is used (easier to blow yourself up with nitroglycerine than C-4) |
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Mar 9 2012, 10:07 AM
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#18
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,925 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 948 |
I would make it simple.
- How many grenades are there in a full auto barrage? I would say about 20' - Add +1 to the base area effect of a grenade per shot fired. - The total area is the area suppressed, calculate scatter from impact point as normal for the entire explosion radius ONCE. - That is your supression area, if you want less scatter, start over and shoot again. But for gods sake, dont mix grenades (Smoke, Incendiary, Frag) Enemy cannot see, they are on fire, and they explode...) And yea, property value will be somewhat dimished. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) |
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Mar 9 2012, 10:27 AM
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#19
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 881 Joined: 13-November 11 From: Vienna, Austria Member No.: 43,494 |
just supress with splash grenades + dmso + narcoject
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Mar 9 2012, 11:25 AM
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#20
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,925 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 948 |
QUOTE (NiL_FisK_Urd @ Mar 9 2012, 11:27 AM) just supress with splash grenades + dmso + narcoject The problem with that is that people will overdose and die...not that they will survive a grenade barrage of frags... I would suggest the following mixture: -Nausea Gas -Riot Foam -Pepper Punch -Flourescent Ink (Pink) Now everyone will feel like shit without dying...hopefully. |
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Mar 9 2012, 01:20 PM
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#21
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Advocatus Diaboli Group: Members Posts: 13,994 Joined: 20-November 07 From: USA Member No.: 14,282 |
Ugh, not *this* again. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Didn't you guys have enough 'fun' in the other thread?
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Mar 9 2012, 01:32 PM
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#22
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,925 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 948 |
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Mar 9 2012, 02:20 PM) Ugh, not *this* again. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Didn't you guys have enough 'fun' in the other thread? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) |
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Mar 9 2012, 01:46 PM
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#23
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Advocatus Diaboli Group: Members Posts: 13,994 Joined: 20-November 07 From: USA Member No.: 14,282 |
Hehe. Can you even suppress with not-all-the-same ammo? I mean, tracers definitely work, but that's just 'tracer ammo'. Off the top of my head, I'd say it has to be one type for the entire action.
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Mar 9 2012, 01:59 PM
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#24
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Immortal Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,358 Joined: 2-December 07 From: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Member No.: 14,465 |
DMSO + Deepweed = End of combat: "Dude, quit harshing my buzz." "Aw man, I got the munchies! We got any chips?"
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Mar 9 2012, 02:19 PM
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#25
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Running Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,003 Joined: 3-May 11 From: Brisbane Australia Member No.: 29,391 |
Why aren't we discussing the real issue - suppressive fire from pantheon (read rapid fire aesir) satellites.
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