Let's discuss Positive Qualities, From all 5 core rulebooks Options

[Samoth]

Entire post spoilered for size

[ Spoiler ]

SR4A
Adept - Speaks for itself
Ambidextrous - Wide burts remove the need for any offhand weapon
Animal Empathy - Unless you ride a lot of horses I don't see the point
Aptitude - Only useful for BP chargen, and then only for a few specific skills (Spellcasting, possibly some hacking). Not an option for karmagen or for buying the Quality at chargen and raising the skill to 7 later, as the cost to do so is 70 Karma.
Astral Chameleon - Useful I suppose
Blandness - Blending into the crowd only does so much when everyone has a camera with a recorder
Codeslinger - Useful
Double Jointed - How often do you need to use Escape Artist?
Erased - Easier to have this done for Nuyen during the game
Exception Attribute - Only useful for certain situations (raising odd numbered attributes to even numbers to increase modified max.) Too expensive.
First Impression - Useful
Focused Concentration - Useful, but too expensive.
Guts - Useful I suppose for the magic resistance
High Pain Tolerance - Useful, but easliy replicated with cyber/bio/magic
Home Ground - Great if you do all of your fighting in your apartment
Human Looking - Seems like by 2073 racial predjudice would be dying off
Lucky - Useful but extremely overpriced
Magician - Speaks for itself
Magic Resistance - The negative of affecting spells beneficial to you is a turnoff.
Mentor Spirit - Can be cheesed very easliy
Murky Link - Useful but too expensive
Mystic Adept - Speaks for itself
Natural Hardening - Useful
Natural Immunity - Too expensive and too broad
Photographic Memory - Allows for metagaming
Quick Healer - healing is really easy and cheap, so I say not a good quality.
Resistance to Pathogens/Toxins - Pass
Spirit Affinity - fluff-only, no actual benefit
Technomancer - Speaks for itself
Toughness - Easier ways to increase Body
Will to Live - If you are already in Overflow I don't see much benefit for this.

Augmentation
Biocompatability - OK if you plan on taking yourself to the limit, but I find that there generally aren't enough useful modifications for this to be practical
Genecrafted - OK I suppose from a min/max saving nuyen at chargen perspective
Genetic Heritage - Hoo boy, up to GM discretion to keep everyone from having "Genetic Heritage: Synaptic Booters 3"
Type-O system - the people this would most benefit (Magicians and Mystic Adepts) can't even buy it. Grossly overpriced.
Wild Card Nano Prototype - What's the point? Also really overpriced.

Runner's Companion
Adrenaline Surge - overpriced, pass
Analytical Mind - I don't see many times this would come in handy unless you battle the Riddler every week
Blingual - Languages aren't too hard to come by
Black Market Pipeline - Could be useful
Born Rich - It should give you a free 25,000Y for taking this quality, not force you to spend extra BP on it as well
Catlike - Not too hard to get good Infiltration/Shadowing skills, pass
College Education - Knowledge skills are worthless
Common Sense - metagaming
Deep COver - this always seemed like a Negative to me
Digital Doppelganger - Doesn't seem particularly useful
Escaped Clone - why?
Fame - Fine if that is your character concept
Gearhead - Good for Riggers I suppose
Hawk Eye - Vision enhancements aren't hard to come by
Inspired - Why not just take Fame?
Juryrigging - Your group's mage should know Fix
Linguist- Languages aren't hard to come by
Lighting Reflexes - only useful for a non-magical, non-modified character -- so not useful. Also expensive.
Made Man - seems like the negatives outweigh the positives unless you also get paid as a day job
Mistaken Identity - All fluff
Natural Athlete - Skills aren't too hard to raise
Night Vision - Vision enhancements aren't hard to come by
Outdoorsman - Expensive and of dubious use
Perceptive - Extra Perception dice are always good
Perfect Time - Not useful, all fluff
Privileged Family Name - negatives outweigh the positives
School of Hard Knocks - Knowledge skills are worthless
Sense of Direction - Your comlink has a GPS
Sensei - Worthless
Speed Reading - I don't see much use for this
Technical School Education - Knowledge skills are worthless
Tough as Nails - Better than Will to Live, but still of questionable use (rethink why you are taking so much damage)
Trust Fund - Seems fine, basically a free lifestyle and extra cash, and it's offset with the SINner negative qusality to cut down the cost
Trustworthy - Social Skills are easy to pump
Water Sprite - No thanks
(In Debt) - Should be a positive quality - even though it isn't I really like it, free money, huge BP gain, and instant plot hooks and character flaws.

Street Magic
Astral Sight - Why would any mundane need this?
Latent Awakening - Ok for roleplaying but you'll just be a shitty magician for the entire campaign
Sprit/Spell Knack - Don't see this being very useful
Sprirt Pact - Just get an ally spirit

Unwired
Chatty - Social skills are easy to raise
Intiutive Hacking - I suppose this is useful
Latent Technomancer - Same as latent awakening. Hope you didn't get any cyberware beforehand.
More than Metahuman - Not useful
Obscure - Not particularly useful
Paragon - Easy to cheese
Resonance Bond - Expensive, same as spirit pact
Synthetic Sympathy - Social skills are easy to raise

[_Pax._]

[...]

Formatting is your friend. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

Also, a lot of your responses clearly reflect yur pesonal bias based on playstyle, and preferred role/archetype within the team.

A few specific highights:

Human Looking - Seems like by 2073 racial predjudice would be dying off

You're kidding, right? It's been 48 years since the Civil Rights act, and 150 years since the Civil War. Yet, anti-negro racism is alive, well, and even thriving in many parts o the U.S.

Antisemitism is still strong throughout the entire world, too.

Photographic Memory - Allows for metagaming

.... how ...??

Biocompatability - OK if you plan on taking yourself to the limit, but I find that there generally aren't enough useful modifications for this to be practical

Even if you only plan on getting .... oh, Wired Reflexes 2, high-rating Cybereyes, and that's it? Going from 3.3 Essence cost to 2.97 Essence cost is pretty darned nice. Essentially, this lets you treat every implant of the matching type (Cyber or Bio) as if it were Alphaware, without paying extra nuyen.

Adrenaline Surge - overpriced, pass

Disagree. The value of this depends on the frequency of combat encounters, versus the frequency of Edge resets. A free point of Edge in every combat, regardless of refreshes? Could be worthless ... could be worth it's weight in orichalcum.

College Education - Knowledge skills are worthless

Then your GM is doing it wrong. Very wrong.

Common Sense - metagaming

This one is intended for NEWCOMERS. For people who don't know the setting, or perhaps even the genre.

(part 1 of 2 - darn limit on quote-blocks)

[_Pax._]

(part 2 of 2)

Fame - Fine if that is your character concept

... triples the income from Day Job.

Juryrigging - Your group's mage should know Fix

Juryrigging is about more than just repairs.

Linguist- Languages aren't hard to come by

I just built a Face/Mage character for a PbP here on Dumpshock. He speaks 7 languages, including his Native English, at a root level of 3. Thus, Linguist was worth 12BP of Knowledge/Language skill points - a profit of 7BP. I can raise each 1 more point, to 4 - and get the full +2 bonus, speaking each as well as a full-on native speaker. Getting ranks 5 and 6 free is worth 11 Karma. Across six skills, that's 66 karma saved.

And I don't plan on stopping at 6+Native languages spoken, either. I'm pondering picking up the Linguistics adept power, too. Then, the cost of an effectively R6 "native" language will be only 9 karma each ... instead of 24.

Linguist has already paid for itself. By the time I'm at 10 non-Native languages spoken? It iwll have paid for itself a dozen times over, if not more.

Made Man - seems like the negatives outweigh the positives unless you also get paid as a day job

A reasonable assessment and I agree. Made Man should come with Day Job (at twice the hours worked) as a package-deal, single Quality.

Thanks for the new houserule. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Night Vision - Vision enhancements aren't hard to come by

Human mage. 'nough said.

Sense of Direction - Your comlink has a GPS

GPS doesn't work so well, inside signal-blocking structures. Or deep underground. Or within the AoE of a strong jammer. Or when your commlink has been stolen, EMPed, or just plain had it's batteries die.

[RelentlessImp]

Human mage. 'nough said.

Rating 6 Goggles with Thermographic Vision, Low-Light Vision, Imagelink, Vision Magnification [Optical]. That's 625 nuyen and Availability of 12 and you can cast your spells through the magnification.

EDIT:

Exception Attribute - Only useful for certain situations (raising odd numbered attributes to even numbers to increase modified max.) Too expensive.

Not so for the SURGE variant of this ability. Also you left out the SURGE qualities from Runner's Companion. I find SURGE 2-3 is very useful for picking up Metagenetic Improvement for basically free, maybe a second one if you have the spare BP (30 'free' for SURGE 3, allowing you to pick Metagenetic Improvement once for free, and then a second time for another attribute for a cost of 10BP).

Also, most of the time, the opposite is what you want - changing an even-numbered attribute's softcap to an odd one (for stuff like Body, Willpower, which determine your Damage Tracks at 8+(Attribute/2), round up).

[Lantzer]

Rating 6 Goggles with Thermographic Vision, Low-Light Vision, Imagelink, Vision Magnification [Optical]. That's 625 nuyen and Availability of 12 and you can cast your spells through the magnification.

Which aren't particularly fashionable at a evening garden party, or particularly concealable if searched at a checkpoint.

[RelentlessImp]

Which aren't particularly fashionable at a evening garden party, or particularly concealable if searched at a checkpoint.

Rating 3 Contacts (150 nuyen base, 6 Availability) plus Low-Light Vision (+4 Avail, +100 Nuyen), Vision Magnification [Optical] (+2 Avail, +100 Nuyen), Image Link (- Avail, +25 Nuyen). Gives you the same thing as Night Vision, plus a longer Line of Sight for your spells for a total of 375 nuyen and availability 12, no licenses needed for either set. So the 'concealable' bit isn't really a point of contention, as none of the enhancements have a Restricted or Forbidden availability, so they're all perfectly legal. Why would you need to conceal something completely legal?

[RelentlessImp]

Alright, my turn to give a good look rather than glancing at people's replies.

Photographic Memory - Allows for metagaming
Common Sense - metagaming

Players should not be punished for not knowing things their character should. It's the opposite of metagaming, the definition of which is the character knows things that their player does when they really shouldn't.

Erased - Easier to have this done for Nuyen during the game

If I read Erased correctly, it happens on a regular basis for no nuyen spent on your part. Fairly worth it.

Biocompatability - OK if you plan on taking yourself to the limit, but I find that there generally aren't enough useful modifications for this to be practical

I find this really useful on Mystic Adepts, myself, for getting as much out of your Essence as possible.

Genetic Heritage - Hoo boy, up to GM discretion to keep everyone from having "Genetic Heritage: Synaptic Booters 3"

I thought this only applied to Genetech; genetic restoration, phenotype adjustment, transgenics, and genetic infusions. Stuff that actually plays around with genetics, rather than stuff that's added to your body later on in life. In other words, the stuff detailed in pages 72-94, as nothing else is referred to as a 'genetic modification'.

Sprit/Spell Knack - Don't see this being very useful

Why not, I ask you. Sure, they'll never be as good as an actual mage pumping their spells out, but being able to summon one specific type of spirit or cast a specific spell adds a little variety to your average mundane.

(In Debt) - Should be a positive quality - even though it isn't I really like it, free money, huge BP gain, and instant plot hooks and character flaws.

It's also a huge crutch. See the next quote.

Everything marked as 'fluff only'.

Fluff is a very big part of this game, moreso than most other Pen and Paper games. Mechanically, yes, you're correct, most of these do nothing but give your character some personality and flavor, which you should be able to do on your own without being paid for it - but getting paid for it is oh so good in terms of negative qualities.

[Yerameyahu]

Rating 6 Goggles with Thermographic Vision, Low-Light Vision, Imagelink, Vision Magnification [Optical]. That's 625 nuyen and Availability of 12 and you can cast your spells through the magnification.

Not nearly good enough. They need to cast with Thermo, etc.

Why not, I ask you. Sure, they'll never be as good as an actual mage pumping their spells out, but being able to summon one specific type of spirit or cast a specific spell adds a little variety to your average mundane.

*shrug* Your average mundane has more than 0.0 Essence worth of augmentation, which instantly destroys the Knack.

If I read Erased correctly, it happens on a regular basis for no nuyen spent on your part. Fairly worth it.

Beyond worth it. Erased is unspeakably overpowered. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I find SURGE 2-3 is very useful for picking up Metagenetic Improvement for basically free

Yeah, that's not 'useful', that's munchkin. It certainly is *effective*, anyway.

[RelentlessImp]

Yeah, that's not 'useful', that's munchkin. It certainly is *effective*, anyway.

Does it help my case at all that I never combine it with anything other than human and, on the rare occasion, dwarf? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Yerameyahu]

Ha, you should do what you want. I just wanted to highlight the understatement of 'useful' for SURGE. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[KCKitsune]

Contacts and goggles do NOT allow a mage to cast in conditions that a normal human can not see in.

Also, cyberware is not just for mundanes. Getting one point of cyber is a GREAT way to make a mage MUCH more survivable. Synaptic booster level 1 does not set off security alarms, and it ALWAYS works. Activating and deactivating a Sustaining Focus is a nice way to draw unwanted attention on yourself. I have a mage with 2 points of 'Ware, and while he is not as mystically strong as a normal mage, I know that I can cast in ANY lighting condition (low light + eye light system = Win) and with the Radar and Ultrasound system in his left hand, he can easily see invisible opponents.

The Orientation system in his lower right leg makes it so that he doesn't have to rely on GPS or a commlink (which is also in the same leg) to know where he is.

[LurkerOutThere]

What Kitsune said. If you want to use alternative vision mods for spell casting you either need to have them naturally or pay essence for them. Even contacts arn't going to work for you. Get a set of binoculars are pretty much suck it up.

[_Pax._]

Rating 6 Goggles with Thermographic Vision, Low-Light Vision, Imagelink, Vision Magnification [Optical]. That's 625 nuyen and Availability of 12 and you can cast your spells through the magnification.

Rating 3 Contacts (150 nuyen base, 6 Availability) plus Low-Light Vision (+4 Avail, +100 Nuyen), Vision Magnification [Optical] (+2 Avail, +100 Nuyen), Image Link (- Avail, +25 Nuyen).

There's one thing you're overlookign here: in both cases, teh mage is unable to target spells in the dark. These items provide electronic sensors, not purely optical. Oh, in bright light, sure, teh magnification in the goggles works fine. But in teh dark? Not the low-light, not the thermographic.

Unless the mage pays essence for them, they cannot use electronic vision sources to target their spells.

Whereas, night-vision? Works just fine for throwing spells around.

Gives you the same thing as Night Vision, plus a longer Line of Sight for your spells for a total of 375 nuyen and availability 12, no licenses needed for either set. So the 'concealable' bit isn't really a point of contention, as none of the enhancements have a Restricted or Forbidden availability, so they're all perfectly legal. Why would you need to conceal something completely legal?

Just because something is perfectly legal to own, doesn't mean it's perfectly legal to carry it around on your peson.

For example ... Knives, in the state of Connecticut. I can buy any knife or sword I want (except switchblades and similar). I can walk around on my own property, carrying and even (nonthreateningly) brandishing it, to my heart's content. Indeed, I have some knives, and a gimmicky sword that nonetheless holds an edge. No especial permit needed to buy them, or own them. In SR terms, they don't bear either an F or an R on their legality codes - just like, say, the Ceramic Knife in SR4.

But if I step one foot over my property line with one? BAM, arrested.

[_Pax._]

Also, cyberware is not just for mundanes. Getting one point of cyber is a GREAT way to make a mage MUCH more survivable. Synaptic booster level 1 does not set off security alarms, and it ALWAYS works.

Cybereyes also don't set off alarms. Nor do Skillwires. Both of those are so common, they're probably not even worth a comment from security or the cops.

A good, low-cost suite for a Human mage:

• Synaptic Booster [R1] (Bioware; 0.5 Essence; 80,000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) )
• Cybereyes [R2; Low-Light, Eye Light, Flare Compensation, Visual Magnification, protective covers] (Cyberware; 0.3 essence; 4,350 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) )
• Skillwires [R2] (Cyberware; 0.4 Essence; 4,000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) )

The net cost is 0.95 essence and 88,350 nuyen. If you have more cash to throw at augmentations, you could instead do:

• Synaptic Booster [R1] (Bioware; 0.5 Essence; 80,000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) )
• Cybereyes [Alpha, R2; Low-Light, Eye Light, Flare Compensation, Visual Magnification, protective covers] (Cyberware; 0.24 essence; 8,700 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) )
• Skillwires [Alpha, R3] (Cyberware; 0.48 Essence; 12,000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) )

This one costs 0.97 Essence, and 100,700 nuyen.

Metahumans could drop the Cybereyes (and rely on contacts with flare comp and optical magnification) for another level of Skillwires, in both cases:

• Synaptic Booster [R1] (Bioware; 0.5 Essence; 80,000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) )
• Skillwires [R3] (Cyberware; 0.6 Essence; 6,000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) )

The net cost is 0.85 essence and 86,000 nuyen.

• Synaptic Booster [R1] (Bioware; 0.5 Essence; 80,000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) )
• Skillwires [Alpha, R4] (Cyberware; 0.64 Essence; 16,000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) ; Availability 16!)

This one costs 0.89 Essence, 9600 nuyen, and 5BP for "Restricted Gear".

Meanwhile, moving all those physical skills from stuff your character knows, to stuff your character bought at StufferShack, or Kong-Walmart, frees up BP to spend on your Magical skills. An active skill bought as a Skillsoft costs an effective 2BP per level, rather than 4BP per level to know it yourself. And post-character gen, you can expand and upgrade your skillsofts for money, rather than Karma ... well, to the limit of your skillwires' rating, anyway.

[Sephiroth]

Exception Attribute - Only useful for certain situations (raising odd numbered attributes to even numbers to increase modified max.) Too expensive.

It's useful for AI's, since Rating is the average of all four mental attributes. This allows for an AI PC with a Rating of 7.

Genetic Heritage - Hoo boy, up to GM discretion to keep everyone from having "Genetic Heritage: Synaptic Booters 3"

I am sorry, but it does not work like that. Synaptic Boosters are not geneware.

Lighting Reflexes - only useful for a non-magical, non-modified character -- so not useful. Also expensive.

Can be useful for any combat-oriented Infected character with 2 IP's. It is also useful for Free Spirit PC's.

Sprirt Pact - Just get an ally spirit

One does not simply get an ally spirit.


Also, I echo the sentiment expressed above: If you think knowledge skills are worthless, then your GM is doing something very very wrong.

[_Pax._]

I am sorry, but it does not work like that. Synaptic Boosters are not geneware.

Yes, actually, they are. It's an obscure bit of the text, but per page 93 of Augmentation (emphasis mine):

Animal Features: Animal features can include any phenotypic
modi cation drawn from normal animal lifeforms.  ese might
include shaggy lion manes, rabbit’s ears, quills instead of hair, tails,
claws, and other animal characteristics. Note that such physical alterations
do not automatically imbue the subject with animal-like
senses or abilities, remaining primarily cosmetic. Full functionality
requires much more profound metabolic alterations. Most of
the functional changes available through biotech (p. 61) are also
possible through transgenic alteration for comparable Essence and
nuyen costs but longer treatment times (typically several months).

The trick is ... Genetic Heritage can give you that transgenic alteration free of charge.

In fact, the FAQ actually addresses this (emphasis again mine):

Can you use Genetic Heritage to take bioware as a transgenic modification?

Yes, with the gamemaster’s approval.

--- and ---

Can I get bioware as genetech? If so, can I get it in different grades, and what is the Essence cost?

Sort of. Most of the functional changes available through bioware are available through the Animal Features transgenic alteration genetech for comparable Essence and nuyen costs (p.93, Augmentation); i.e., a transgenic digestive expansion would cost 0.5 Essence and 20,000¥.

The exact limitations of what is and what is not available are up to the gamemaster; as a rule of thumb for gamemasters out there: if it’s in the animal kingdom already (echolocation, gecko thumbs, gills, etc.) it’s probably fair game. More exotic implants like chemical glands for synthetic drugs, false front, and symbionts are a little more iffy; though anyone who’s had children could at least make an argument for little parasites growing inside of you being completely natural.

Unlike bioware, however, genetech is not available in grades; therefore any transgenic alterations of this type will be based on the base Essence and nuyen cost of the bioware.

Yes, this does mean that a character with the Genetic Heritage quality can get a piece of bioware as a transgenic modification for “free” (i.e., no nuyen cost) with the gamemaster’s approval; the character still has to pay BP for the quality and Essence for the bioware/transgenic modification.

The catch is, "with GM approval".

[Glyph]

Exactly. The GM has to approve using genetic heritage for anything other than non-standard geneware, and I don't think too many would let synaptic booster: 3 fly.

Other than that, it doesn't look like you had any major problems with the positive qualities, other than not finding some of them useful. And that is subjective. Analytical mind, for example, is useful because it gives you a +2 bonus to data search, which is a very important skill for the legwork part of the run.

[RelentlessImp]

Just because something is perfectly legal to own, doesn't mean it's perfectly legal to carry it around on your peson.

For example ... Knives, in the state of Connecticut. I can buy any knife or sword I want (except switchblades and similar). I can walk around on my own property, carrying and even (nonthreateningly) brandishing it, to my heart's content. Indeed, I have some knives, and a gimmicky sword that nonetheless holds an edge. No especial permit needed to buy them, or own them. In SR terms, they don't bear either an F or an R on their legality codes - just like, say, the Ceramic Knife in SR4.

But if I step one foot over my property line with one? BAM, arrested.

Except Shadowrun as a system doesn't really take that into account. If it doesn't have an R, you can have it on your person without being red-flagged. If it has an R, you need to show a license. If it has an F, you better have one damned good explanation, and even then you're probably looking at a fine or some jail time along with confiscation of property. The game world needs to match up with the mechanics, otherwise you're just needlessly screwing your players. So if it's not Restricted or Forbidden your players should be good to go.

[Shortstraw]

There's one thing you're overlookign here: in both cases, teh mage is unable to target spells in the dark. These items provide electronic sensors, not purely optical. Oh, in bright light, sure, teh magnification in the goggles works fine. But in teh dark? Not the low-light, not the thermographic.

Unless the mage pays essence for them, they cannot use electronic vision sources to target their spells.

Whereas, night-vision? Works just fine for throwing spells around.


Just because something is perfectly legal to own, doesn't mean it's perfectly legal to carry it around on your peson.

For example ... Knives, in the state of Connecticut. I can buy any knife or sword I want (except switchblades and similar). I can walk around on my own property, carrying and even (nonthreateningly) brandishing it, to my heart's content. Indeed, I have some knives, and a gimmicky sword that nonetheless holds an edge. No especial permit needed to buy them, or own them. In SR terms, they don't bear either an F or an R on their legality codes - just like, say, the Ceramic Knife in SR4.

But if I step one foot over my property line with one? BAM, arrested.

That's true enough I have a friend who is a chef and it's illegal for him to bring his knives to work.

[Xenefungus]

Concerning Aptitude, it's actually 20 Karma for the Quality + 14 karma to raise the skill to 7, so all in all 34 Karma for that last point, not 70. That's still one of the more expensive dice though, not really efficient.

[ravensmuse]

I would say that Samoth's observations are interestingly limited in scope. Especially his thoughts on Knowledge Skills.

[Samoth]

I would say that Samoth's observations are interestingly limited in scope. Especially his thoughts on Knowledge Skills.

Knowledge skills have a "use" as much as you make them. What I meant by my comments is that getting modifiers to specific rarely used skills isn't a great use of BP (how often do you use Elven Wines anyway?) I know some knowledge and language skills get more use than others in real gameplay, but strictly by the crunch they aren't as useful as Active skills, and I was basing my opinions on the useful crunch side as opposed to flavor.

Also, Knowsofts and Linguasofts (while not perfect and not for everyone) are criminally cheap and readily available.

By the way, I appreciate the comments disagreeing with my opinions -- it's always good to get perspective on areas I don't normally pay a lot of attention to.

[ravensmuse]

See, and I disagree.

Knowledge skills are there to round out a character's concept. Unless you're just looking to make Kloud McShooty face, a character is going to know some things. He's going to have hobbies, interests, and things that he's just picked up; those are your knowledge skills. The nice thing about it is that buying knowledges aren't something that's going to pull from your main BP pool, which kind of encourages you to go crazy with them.

Knowledge skills are also going to help round out your contacts - if your guy knows this guy, how does he know them? Is it through a shared hobby? He's met them in the Dragon<3 fandom? Went to a Boston Brawlers game and met him over a beer? Things like that are as mechanically important as the ability to shoot people in the face (for money).

Same can be said for languages - if your character knows various languages, why?

In the shoot face, make money sector of the game, knowledge skills fall flat on the ability to get shit done. However, if you also approach it from the roleplaying side of the spectrum, surprisingly knowledge skills are useful (and fun).

By the way, I have a player whose character should probably have taken Animal Empathy - she's a gator wrestler from Alabama, who, after a discussion yesterday, is debating opening up her own zoo / paranimal rehabilitation center.

[cryptoknight]

I tend to use some of the Knowledge skills as "Common Sense" to a degree.

This comes in hand when I'm running Convention Missions Games...

Player: "Ok so we drive the Van through the fence, and the brick wall of the prison"

Me: "Anybody have Knowledge Engineering/Construction/Security Systems?"

Players: "Yes"

Some dice rolls later and I either explain to them how that might work based on what their characters know, or how there's no way their current plan has a chance of success.... and why...

It may be a cheap way to use knowledge skills, but in a 4 hour time slot Convention game, it comes in handy.

[_Pax._]

Exactly. The GM has to approve using genetic heritage for anything other than non-standard geneware, and I don't think too many would let synaptic booster: 3 fly.

Generally, I would restrict it to "rating 1 only". And possibly still would say "nope" to various specific implants.

Except Shadowrun as a system doesn't really take that into account. If it doesn't have an R, you can have it on your person without being red-flagged.

Explain the Ceramic Knife, then. It's availability is just plain "4" - yet it's loved so much, because it can be HIDDEN from MADs and the like.





RE: Knowledge skills, and their usefulness: Legwork, chummers. Legwork. That's where knowledge skills are going to come in handy. (As well as for RP / fluff reasons, which have their own importance.)

For example ... the Dwarf Magician Adept "Combat Face" I just built for a PbP here? Had 18 free points of knowledge/language skills ... and I spent another 18BP on them ... and, yes, he has the Linguist quality. Native English speaker, also has 3 ranks (4 effective) in Japanese, Korean, Or'zet, and Salish, and 2 ranks (3 effective) in Russian and Sperethiel. All the languages needed to deal with (and understand the background-chatter of) all the major players n Seattle's criminal underworld. He also has (KN: Seattle bars and nightclubs), (KN:Combat Biker), and (KN:Seattle Gangs [Identifiers +2]).

As a former go-ganger, yeah, combat Biker is just a tick-mark on the sheet to me. But, knowing where bars and nightclubs are? Could be useful for setting up meets, stakeouts, and so on. Being able to identify gangers - including their gang - on sight, notice when you'v emoved into someone else's territory, and so forth? Likely to be VERY useful.