The Profesional Guard, and you trying to talk past him Options

[Sesix]

So, here is something: Does anyone of you use the guards professional rating as a +/- modifier to any of the con, intimidate, etc. test? Was thinking of doing this in my game, but was wondering if anyone else has done this and see how it effected their game. Mainly because I got a face who can throw a crap ton of dice at the test and not blink at a few negatives. I swear he could walk up to the guards of a AAA Corp with his johnson out, and tell them he was going to go check the water temp with it inside and they would let him pass.

[RdMarquis]

Well, keep in mind that social skills aren't intended to replace Manipulation spells. You might require the character to actually give a convincing reason to be at the arcology or what have you. Added to that, the effect of a successful test need not last forever. An hour or so later, the guard might realize that guy wasn't on the VP's personal staff after all.

[CanRay]

Just throw in a Russian Elf Bureaucrat that survived the Soviet Era.

Doesn't matter what kind of paperwork, magic, or whatever else you have, his answer is "Nyet."

EDIT: If you're really mean, make him a Dwarf.

[Neraph]

So, here is something: Does anyone of you use the guards professional rating as a +/- modifier to any of the con, intimidate, etc. test? Was thinking of doing this in my game, but was wondering if anyone else has done this and see how it effected their game. Mainly because I got a face who can throw a crap ton of dice at the test and not blink at a few negatives. I swear he could walk up to the guards of a AAA Corp with his johnson out, and tell them he was going to go check the water temp with it inside and they would let him pass.

Because everyone knows AAA corps don't have shoot-on-sight rules either...

[Glyph]

Social skills can only do so much. If the security guard has inflexible procedures, or protocols that absolutely must be followed, then sorry, you aren't getting past that door without a valid ID and a scan for weapons. Social skills can get you past maybe the outermost layer of security, like a gate guard, with a really good roll, but they won't let you waltz into a secure installation and out again with the prototype tucked under your arm.

[CanRay]

Social skills can only do so much. If the security guard has inflexible procedures, or protocols that absolutely must be followed, then sorry, you aren't getting past that door without a valid ID and a scan for weapons. Social skills can get you past maybe the outermost layer of security, like a gate guard, with a really good roll, but they won't let you waltz into a secure installation and out again with the prototype tucked under your arm.

Ever watch the movie "Sneakers"?

[Stahlseele]

In a very nasl voice:
"Excuse me, i have a bit of a Problem. My Nose is a bit clogged up because of a Cold. Does this smell like Chloroform to you?"

[Glyph]

Ever watch the movie "Sneakers"?

Yeah, but I don't remember it that well. I'm not saying that the face is stopped cold after the first or second level of defense - but to get further, he needs more than smooth talking - he needs a hacker working in tandem with him, forged documents, fake biometrics, and such. Carefully planned social engineering, rather than relying on a bucketful of dice.

[Halinn]

So, here is something: Does anyone of you use the guards professional rating as a +/- modifier to any of the con, intimidate, etc. test?

I think this would be better done by using professional ratings as a threshold.

[Dakka Dakka]

I think this would be better done by using professional ratings as a threshold.

You can't add thresholds to opposed tests. If you think the up to +6 dice are not enough, just make the modifier Professional Rating *2 or *3.

[CanRay]

Yeah, but I don't remember it that well. I'm not saying that the face is stopped cold after the first or second level of defense - but to get further, he needs more than smooth talking - he needs a hacker working in tandem with him, forged documents, fake biometrics, and such. Carefully planned social engineering, rather than relying on a bucketful of dice.

The guy in charge of the Hacker team got into a secured building by overwhelming the security guard with everyday annoyances, then dropped the part of his disguise that hid his face and picked up a briefcase. Suddenly apart of the building.

Of course, yes, he does need a Hacker/Decker/Hacker to support him when dealing with things you can't Con your way past.

"OK, I know how to get past this. A friend of mine that was in Desert Storm had a method. He was on the other side, but it still works." "Uh-huh. Yeah. OK. Yeah. No. OK. OK. OK." *Boots Keypad-Locked Door Open With A Well-Placed Kick*

Watch it again, it's how a good team should work together. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

EDIT: It's also an excellent movie to demonstrate how "Negative Qualities" can be played off to be a major advantage. "Don't look. Listen."

[Halinn]

You can't add thresholds to opposed tests.

Sure you can. Just say that you need this many more hits than your opponent for you to achieve your goal.

[Dakka Dakka]

Sure you can. Just say that you need this many more hits than your opponent for you to achieve your goal.

No, threshold tests and opposed tests are two distinct types of tests. On a threshold test a tie (i.e. achieving as many hits as the threshold) is a success for the one active character, on an opposed test equal amounts of hits is a success for the defender. The rules give no option for requiring one participant of an opposed test to achieve more than one net hit over the opponent to achieve a success. Adding something like that is a houserule.

[toturi]

No, threshold tests and opposed tests are two distinct types of tests. On a threshold test a tie (i.e. achieving as many hits as the threshold) is a success for the one active character, on an opposed test equal amounts of hits is a success for the defender. The rules give no option for requiring one participant of an opposed test to achieve more than one net hit over the opponent to achieve a success. Adding something like that is a houserule.

Agreed. While how much better one succeeds is determined by the amount of extra successes over the opponent's, it does not detract from the fact that in an opposed test, one more hit than the other means that it is a successful attempt.

[Halinn]

Adding something like that is a houserule.

Well... yes. And? So's the original idea of it being a dice pool penalty.

[Sesix]

I looked and trying to turn it into a threshold test doesn't seem that viable. Still seems like he could get by every time with that system. I do need to up how the security works. I think I have been too lenient, but I'm also going to try the profession rating as a modifier. I will have an update for you in about two weeks. Damn holidays screwing with my gaming time.

Also Sneakers was not that great of a movie. Just sayin.

[Dakka Dakka]

Well... yes. And? So's the original idea of it being a dice pool penalty.

If you judge that adding the professional rating as a dice pool modifier is a houserule, this rule does not mess with basic game mechanics, it just further describes a given situation.

[djinni]

You can't add thresholds to opposed tests. If you think the up to +6 dice are not enough, just make the modifier Professional Rating *2 or *3.

you realize you just said that someone's house rule isn't allowed in their own game?

[Dakka Dakka]

you realize you just said that someone's house rule isn't allowed in their own game?

I forgot to add the caveat "without altering core game mechanics".

[Neraph]

you realize you just said that someone's house rule isn't allowed in their own game?

(IN GOOD HUMOR!)

We've found the Rules Police! Aaah!

[FuelDrop]

(IN GOOD HUMOR!)

We've found the Rules Police! Aaah!

Panic! They've found us! Quick, grab the plans and the map, we're getting out of here.

Oh, and leave the damned monkey!

[CanRay]

Deploy the Lesbian Elf Stripper Ninja Rules Police!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)