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[yesferatu]

Hey guys,

So my vehicle rigger just picked up a helicopter.
I'm terrified of getting hacked.

What can I do to protect my new ride from matrix attacks?
I'm piloting the old fashioned way - Synaptic Boosters and rank 6 pilot...does flying it in the meat protect me at all?
Can you even fly without an active node?

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Turn off Wireless Access to the Chopper. Simple. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Lionhearted]

Manual control override upgradea in Arsenal is made for that.
Also upgrade the firewall on your chopper, decrease the signal (use of those directional signal boosters when you need to remote rig it) and load it up with a hefty IC.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Manual control override upgradea in Arsenal is made for that.
Also upgrade the firewall on your chopper, decrease the signal (use of those directional signal boosters when you need to remote rig it) and load it up with a hefty IC.

If you are manually flying, there is no reason to have any Wireless signal at all... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Lionhearted]

Having the option to remote call your helicopter to pick you up, is going to be useful eventually.
Murphy's law and all.

[SpellBinder]

You can also stick a commlink somewhere in the helicopter to broadcast an Access ID for your helicopter while you've got its own wireless disabled. Program it to broadcast whatever a helicopter might when you're in areas where you've gotta broadcast an Access ID, and the only way anyone will know it's not really your helicopter is if they do hack it.

If you're cybered out, install a datajack so you can get a DNI connection to the helicopter for rigged flight. If not, skinlink your PAN gear (with all of its wireless disabled) and plug your commlink into the helicopter and still get the wired DNI.

Also don't forget about the Nonstandard Wireless Link (Unwired, page 196) and Encrypt software for if you ever do have to fly it wirelessly, in addition to the mentioned node defenses.

[_Pax._]

As a rigger?

Disable the Wireless of yoru vehicle's node. Then slave and hard-wire the Vehicle node to a new commlink, that you in turn load with the un-friendliest IC you can get your paws on.

...

I suggest a Singularity Battle Buddy Basic (Response 5, Signal 5); install System 5 and Firewall 6 software on it.

Then, add hardware Optimisation for Analyse. Get the highest rating Analyse you can run on it - Analyse 5 if nothign else, but primo wouldbe Analyse 8 (Optimised +3). Get one with the Ergonomic program option, if you can.

Assuming you can get the best of the best? Anyoen trying to hack in first faces a Firewall of 6, so, an Admin account carries a threshold of 12. Meanwhile, it's rolling 15 dice (Firewall 6, plus Analyse 8, +1 die for Optimisation) to detect the intrusion attempt. Once they're inside, they get jumped byt he IC; I would recomment something like a Renraku Oniwaban (R5), backed up by a Transys Florence (R5).

The net result should be that any one dumb enough to try and hack in, winds up dead.

[yesferatu]

It's just always been my experience that any device that can be hacked WILL be hacked.
In a world where your eyes can get hijacked, I don't trust any level of cyber security.

[NiL_FisK_Urd]

As a rigger?

Disable the Wireless of yoru vehicle's node. Then slave and hard-wire the Vehicle node to a new commlink, that you in turn load with the un-friendliest IC you can get your paws on.

...

I suggest a Singularity Battle Buddy Basic (Response 5, Signal 5); install System 5 and Firewall 6 software on it.

Then, add hardware Optimisation for Analyse. Get the highest rating Analyse you can run on it - Analyse 5 if nothign else, but primo wouldbe Analyse 8 (Optimised +3). Get one with the Ergonomic program option, if you can.

Assuming you can get the best of the best? Anyoen trying to hack in first faces a Firewall of 6, so, an Admin account carries a threshold of 12. Meanwhile, it's rolling 15 dice (Firewall 6, plus Analyse 8, +1 die for Optimisation) to detect the intrusion attempt. Once they're inside, they get jumped byt he IC; I would recomment something like a Renraku Oniwaban (R5), backed up by a Transys Florence (R5).

The net result should be that any one dumb enough to try and hack in, winds up dead.

Dont forget the R6 Pavlow Biofeedback 6P Psychotropic (Severe Phobia: Data Bombs) Data Bomb.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Dont forget the R6 Pavlow Biofeedback 6P Psychotropic (Severe Phobia: Data Bombs) Data Bomb.

Problem is that if you do not see the Data Bomb, you can hardly be afraid of it. In that case, a Severe Phobia (Matrix) works much better. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[yesferatu]

Oh, I live in constant fear of data bombs.

[NiL_FisK_Urd]

Problem is that if you do not see the Data Bomb, you can hardly be afraid of it. In that case, a Severe Phobia (Matrix) works much better. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Right, that is even better.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Oh, I live in constant fear of data bombs.

They are pretty vicious. Which is why any GOOD hacker always checks for them (so you take a pass to check, big deal). Sucks to run into one unawares, especially a powerful one. It is entertaining how many people do not check, though.

[_Pax._]

I prefer things like "Severe Phobia (Fuschia)".

And then make all the icons on my commlink incorporate that color.

Go on, HACK me again ... I dare you! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[NiL_FisK_Urd]

Reality Filter deals with that. To Hackers, a R6 Data Bomb (without options) is inconvienient - to a TM, it is deadly.

[Lionhearted]

Problem is that if you do not see the Data Bomb, you can hardly be afraid of it. In that case, a Severe Phobia (Matrix) works much better. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

A phobia is a irrational fear of a certain phenomenon, condition or object.
So... worrying about databombs in your drink would qualify, and be kinda great.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Reality Filter deals with that. To Hackers, a R6 Data Bomb (without options) is inconvienient - to a TM, it is deadly.

Yes, with NO options, it is inconvenient.
But if you have a Psychotropic and Biofeedback (particularly this one) option on it, it can kill the Hacker just as easily.

[NiL_FisK_Urd]

6P damage vs WIL+Biofeedback and 5P Dumpshock vs WIL (no Biofeedback bc. 'link crashed) should not kill a decent hacker, but bring him down to 1-2 HP if he has at least BOD 3.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

6P damage vs WIL+Biofeedback and 5P Dumpshock vs WIL (no Biofeedback bc. 'link crashed) should not kill a decent hacker, but bring him down to 1-2 HP if he has at least BOD 3.

It will if he keeps trying to hack your Link.

[_Pax._]

Reality Filter deals with that.

Not necessarily.

A Reality Filter can impose a particular paradigm, sure. But it's not necesarily going to go about changing colors willy-nilly.

So your "Feudal Japan" reality filter? Just changes my commlink's Tron-esque lookin node into a Feudal Japanese castle ro villa. With gardens brimming over with fuschia flowers; the patrolling Samurai now wears a black kimono embroidered with fuschia chrysanthemums. The paper doors are each adorned with a large kanji in fuschia ink. Etc.

Or, if you have a "Fat Albert" cartoon Filter? Fuschia graffiti on the walls, fuschia curtains in the windows, a big shaggy fuschia carpet in the entrance hall, and the burly bouncer lounging around on the front stoop is wearing a black-and-fuschia "Blaxploitation pimp" outfit.

Got a thing for WW2? Great, now it's a military post .... the flag is a swastika on fuschia instead of red. And the soldier guarding the front door, is in an SS officer's uniform, black head to toe .... with fuschia branch and rank insignia, pistol belt, boots, etc ...

See the problem, there? Each time, yes the paradigm shifts. But that doesn't necessarily mean the color palette shifts, too.

[NiL_FisK_Urd]

Well, if it is MY programmed reality filter, and i have a phobia against fuchsia, then fuchsia will never show if my paradigma wins. Anything other makes no sense. If nothing else helps, what about a 1920s TV paradigma? Black and White.

[_Pax._]

It takes a long time to program a Reality Filter.

So of the Data Bomb goes off, and you have the phobia ... right then and there, even your Film Noir? Now instead of black-and-whtie, it's fuschia-and-white, and doesn't life just suck for you?

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

It takes a long time to program a Reality Filter.

So of the Data Bomb goes off, and you have the phobia ... right then and there, even your Film Noir? Now instead of black-and-whtie, it's fuschia-and-white, and doesn't life just suck for you?

Indeed... the mind boggling detail that needs to be incorporated into a good reality filter is simply amazing.

[NiL_FisK_Urd]

Well, replace programmed with configured, makes more sense.
Also, Data Bomb goes off, 'Link crashes. No Fuchsia, only Dumpshock. And if i configure my Reality filter afterwards to remove fuchsia from everything, and my paradigma wins, then there is no fuchsia in "my" view of the matrix. If you could change my paradigma, you either hacked/compromised my link, or the program is very useless, because it cannot do what it should.

[_Pax._]

No, as a GM, I would step on any such "I reconfigure my reality filter" stuff like that.

You buy a filter, and that's what you have. If you want to change it, you reprogram it, or buy a new one.

...

Now, if you get dumped,a nd do not immediately try to hack back in ... great. You can reprogram your Reality Filter (should take a few days at most), and it'll screen out Fuschia just fine. Meanwhile, I get what I want: you're out, and you choose to STAY out. See how that works?

OF course, by then, I may have also reprogrammed my Data Bomb, and now it imposes a Severe Phobia of "round things". So blocking Fuschia might not be all that useful after all. Nor will you know in advance (without some stellar legwork) to change your reality filter to remvoe rundness, and put everythign in Minecraft-like blocky graphics.

[Halinn]

Just make it a phobia of hacking. Can't reality filter around that.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Just make it a phobia of hacking. Can't reality filter around that.

Too True...

[FuelDrop]

Severe phobia (water), then an underwater-themed node (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)
Alternatively: Severe phobia (black). That should really screw them over.

[_Pax._]

Just make it a phobia of hacking. Can't reality filter around that.

Picking a color works outside the matrix too. Fuchsia smoke grenades. Fuchsia body armor and hair gel. Fuchsia vehicle. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) It's all good.

[Halinn]

That'd add up to a signature and/or distinctive style, though.

[_Pax._]

Not necessarily.

Smoke grenades? They're cheap and easily replaced.

Colored hair gel? Even cheaper.

Clothes? "Color Changing" modification. I like this one even without that sort of gimmick, because it's great for losing a tail in a crowd; duck out of LOS for a moment, change the color/pattern of your clothes, alter your stance and gait slightly ... and poof ... tail shed. (Also works for no longer matching a witness' description of the guy that waved a gun around half a block away ...)

Car? Chameleon Coat, for the same tactics as the clothing.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

And heck, I can set my PAN up so that if the Data Bomb is triggered, I get a popup alert, with a button to click to change to the appropriate color, clothing- and vehicle-wise. So until Fuschia is the color to scare you? Green and grey, chummer. They're the new Black, dontcha know. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Tias]

Assuming you can get the best of the best? Anyoen trying to hack in first faces a Firewall of 6, so, an Admin account carries a threshold of 12. Meanwhile, it's rolling 15 dice (Firewall 6, plus Analyse 8, +1 die for Optimisation) to detect the intrusion attempt. Once they're inside, they get jumped byt he IC; I would recomment something like a Renraku Oniwaban (R5), backed up by a Transys Florence (R5).

The net result should be that any one dumb enough to try and hack in, winds up dead.

Do you not only require a user account to hack flight systems? I suppose you could set your node to only accept admin accounts.. Sorry if this is a stupid question, I have a really hard time figuring out the matrix rules.

[Jaid]

for anyone who isn't a technomancer, it's best to use something they can't work around, because you will also not be able to alter your psychotropic mod on the fly.

but for a technomancer, sure... go nuts with the phobia(uncommon, severe).

for a hacker, you'll likely have to settle for moderate or mild at most. you can only inflict 15 BP worth of mania/phobia, and since you can't conveniently change it (i'd say you'd have to code a new psychotropic option entirely, not something that happens quickly) you're going to need something that's gonna stick... like phobia(matrix) or phobia(hacking), as has been suggested. both of those are pretty danged nasty, but the best you're going to get is moderate, because those are pretty common. they'll be *able* to come back, but a -4 dice penalty is not good news.

on the other hand, a technomancer can thread whatever they want on a whim (well, on their downtime at least). go ahead and put something weird in there... if they adapt, you can have it changed well before they get their custom reality filter in place.

of course, if you're feeling *particularly* cruel, you can apply stages of psychotropic effects.

first, you get them addicted to hotsim. then you give them a mania for your heavily trapped doomsday node, which has dozens of data bombs set to simultaneously fire off on anyone who logs in, each with a horrible debilitating negative quality attached to it.

assuming they somehow survive, you can be pretty sure they will no longer be a functional metahuman.

[NiL_FisK_Urd]

A technomancer who runs into a R6 Biofeedback 6P Databomb will simply die. 6d6S + 6P damage is something you don't survive.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

A technomancer who runs into a R6 Biofeedback 6P Databomb will simply die. 6d6S + 6P damage is something you don't survive.

21S (Average) + 6P (Biofeedback) + 5p (Dumpshock) is very nasty indeed.

[_Pax._]

Do you not only require a user account to hack flight systems? I suppose you could set your node to only accept admin accounts.. Sorry if this is a stupid question, I have a really hard time figuring out the matrix rules.

Anythign below Admin, can have it's access restricted by limiting what canbe done by someone with such an account.

Let's look at how an Airline might set up accounts on a (small) passenger craft - say, a helo being used for aerial tours of a vacation destination.

USER accounts are for passengers. The passengers can access the in-flight library, which includes things like an AR overlay pointing out the sights as the passenger looks out the window (as well as advertising local businesses - restaurants, clubs, etc - wo've paid the fee to be included). Through the helo;s high signal rating, they can place calls, send texts, etc through the Matrix. And that's it.

SECURITY accounts are for the "flight attendant" (in air) and the Ground Crew (on the ground). They can look at, but not change, flight systems data - engine status, heading, etc. They can open the lockers and fridge where the (for sale) in-flight refreshments are kept. They can directly message the pilot and copilot, and each other.

ADMIN accounts are restricted to Pilots and Copilots, the Owner(s), and Ground Crew Managers. They have absolute and total access to everything.

... see?

[Tias]

That's what I thought, I just thought "user" accounts gave a bit more access. But you're saying that in order to hack, say, a car or an armed drone, you'd need admin access (unless you spoof)?

[_Pax._]

It really depends on how the individual vehicle's node is set up.

A lot of non-security-conscious "normal people" will leave their vehcile set up in default mode - probably giving full operational control at Security level (so that kids and nondrivers can have User accounts - control windows, lighting, music, etc - without being able to take control away from mommy and daddy before they're even on solid foods, yeah?). Look at how many people leave their WiFi network mostly or completely unsecured, because they just don't bother with the basic act of changing the default admin account and password.

Aircraft are less likely to have such "lapses in judgement", if for no other reason than that most are likely owned by people who can also afford to hire a "security consultant" to deal with all the little details FOR them.

And any rigger worth the name, should be setting up VERY sensible account hierarchies. Or they should get the frag outta the biz, you scan? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Jaid]

A technomancer who runs into a R6 Biofeedback 6P Databomb will simply die. 6d6S + 6P damage is something you don't survive.

right. and for everyone else, you want to hit them with a whole bunch of packets of damage, because 6P won't finish them off. in particular, if you're a technomancer threading these, you may feel disinclined to eat the fading for going up to 6P biofeedback and settle for many smaller packets of damage... which will disable the target in other ways.

that said, even for a technomancer, if they get lucky and you roll up, say, 12 damage, plus 6P from biofeedback, well... they'll probably come out of that in serious pain, but they won't actually die in most cases. first off, their armour program (and i can only presume they'll have one) will help against the 12 damage. their biofeedback filter will help against the 6P biofeedback damage.

but even if they don't resist any damage at all (which i consider unlikely), that would still only be 18 damage. that's enough to seriously injure someone, for sure, but it's not a kill against most shadowrunners (though you can be sure they won't be coming back).

that said, i'd briefly forgotten you can't set multiple data bombs on the same thing... still, there are other ways to set up an extremely unpleasant ambush that will seriously ruin your day, and you can still try to get someone to step in and get fried.

[Tias]

I scan, I scan (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) I run it much like you describe, as a GM.

I just feel like there isn't a lot of situations on high-risk runs that can be accomplished with a user account. Wrecking havoc in public nodes is fun and games, but rarely get you much cred!

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

right. and for everyone else, you want to hit them with a whole bunch of packets of damage, because 6P won't finish them off. in particular, if you're a technomancer threading these, you may feel disinclined to eat the fading for going up to 6P biofeedback and settle for many smaller packets of damage... which will disable the target in other ways.

that said, even for a technomancer, if they get lucky and you roll up, say, 12 damage, plus 6P from biofeedback, well... they'll probably come out of that in serious pain, but they won't actually die in most cases. first off, their armour program (and i can only presume they'll have one) will help against the 12 damage. their biofeedback filter will help against the 6P biofeedback damage.

but even if they don't resist any damage at all (which i consider unlikely), that would still only be 18 damage. that's enough to seriously injure someone, for sure, but it's not a kill against most shadowrunners (though you can be sure they won't be coming back).

that said, i'd briefly forgotten you can't set multiple data bombs on the same thing... still, there are other ways to set up an extremely unpleasant ambush that will seriously ruin your day, and you can still try to get someone to step in and get fried.

Ummmm... Average roll for 6D6 dice is 21, not 12. No luck involved here. It is a functional rolling of 6 dice and adding them together. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I cannot locate the referrence right this moment, but it was altered from Rating x 1d6 to RatingD6.

As for Multiple Data Bombs. You set one on the Node itself (which is the one that will get most Hackers/technomancers, because they forget to check it before they access it), and One on each file. Done. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[NiL_FisK_Urd]

It was [Rating]Damage in SR4, which was too low. Now it is too high (because it is an insta-kill on technos).

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

It was [Rating]Damage in SR4, which was too low. Now it is too high (because it is an insta-kill on technos).

And? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Though Now that I have looked at it, Rating x 1d6 still gives a pretty standard (Rating 6 gives 6-36 points of damage, in 6 point increments) damage amount, it is just not as fluid as Ratingd6 (which still gives 6-36, but the range is more dynamic). Still don't have access to my books for the correction, though.

[NiL_FisK_Urd]

Data Bombs inflict a number of boxes of Matrix damage equal to their rating.

When it “detonates,” a data bomb inflicts a number of boxes of Matrix damage equal to (rating x 1D6)

Funny, i always thought it was RatingD6, not Rating x 1d6. Now a technomancer has a better chance of surviving.

[Halinn]

The smoother curve of Rd6 means that lower rating bombs are less likely to kill you. Compare a body 3 will 3 (20 total boxes) character against an R4 bomb. Rating x 1d6 does 20 boxes (i.e. needing to be stabilized or die) one third of the time, while there's a ~95% chance of 4d6 rolling lower than 20.
R5 bombs roll 19 or lower ~70% of the time, compared to the 50% chance of rolling 4+ on a single d6.

On the other hand, of course, there's only ~14% chance of 7d6 rolling low, compared to the 1/3rd chance of rolling 2 or less on a single die.

[Jaid]

Ummmm... Average roll for 6D6 dice is 21, not 12. No luck involved here. It is a functional rolling of 6 dice and adding them together. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I cannot locate the referrence right this moment, but it was altered from Rating x 1d6 to RatingD6.

RatingD6 would still leave the possibility of rolling low. i've played too many RPGs to look at a d6 and believe that just because it's average value is something, that i can't roll pathetically low on it and get less than half the average.

just because your *average* damage is 21, that doesn't mean squat. sure, your *average* might be that high, but average has very little to do with what 1 specific roll will come up with. on one specific roll, you're more likely to deal 21 damage than any other number, but there are still more outcomes that don't give 21 damage than there are outcomes that do give 21 damage.

6d6 dealing 12 damage is unlikely, yes... but it is not by any means impossible, nor even extremely rare.

if you want to be pretty certain about killing, you'll need more than one.

and while you can certainly trap every file in the node, i'm pretty sure that when they said you couldn't have more than one databomb on one thing, they didn't mean you can have as many data bombs as you want on other things which are all set to trigger whenever somebody accesses one thing. which means, if you want a massive simultaneous and devastating attack on a target, you need to find a different solution than data bombs. it's fine, it just means you need to set up armies of black IC on your spare time is all. same basic result, just different methodology.

[Tias]

It was [Rating]Damage in SR4, which was too low. Now it is too high (because it is an insta-kill on technos).

I think it's okay that the software is hard on technos - they have to be bad in some areas, and I never saw technomancers as the types to go decking the baddest ICE - they're a more mystical sort that go looking for the Resonant Realms, not Renrakus blackest datacores.. (and yes, this is a fluff-inspired opinion, discard at your leisure.)

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

RatingD6 would still leave the possibility of rolling low. i've played too many RPGs to look at a d6 and believe that just because it's average value is something, that i can't roll pathetically low on it and get less than half the average.

just because your *average* damage is 21, that doesn't mean squat. sure, your *average* might be that high, but average has very little to do with what 1 specific roll will come up with. on one specific roll, you're more likely to deal 21 damage than any other number, but there are still more outcomes that don't give 21 damage than there are outcomes that do give 21 damage.

6d6 dealing 12 damage is unlikely, yes... but it is not by any means impossible, nor even extremely rare.

if you want to be pretty certain about killing, you'll need more than one.

and while you can certainly trap every file in the node, i'm pretty sure that when they said you couldn't have more than one databomb on one thing, they didn't mean you can have as many data bombs as you want on other things which are all set to trigger whenever somebody accesses one thing. which means, if you want a massive simultaneous and devastating attack on a target, you need to find a different solution than data bombs. it's fine, it just means you need to set up armies of black IC on your spare time is all. same basic result, just different methodology.

True... Average is just that, average. But it is a good metric to determine what to expect. Remember, there are just as many outcomes that are ABOVE that 21 Average Damage point, and they are equal in chance to the ones that are below that average. *shrug*

As for needing more than 1 Bomb to kill someone like that, I have never had that issue. Of course, I use a Rating 7 Databomb, Pavlov, Biofeedback 6 and Psychotropic (Sever Phobia Matrix). Couple that with the liklyhood that they were just dumped, and well, you generally do not have to worry about that particular person screwing with you any time soon, if they survived. *shrug*

This is true, and I have never advocated anything otherwise. You may have a DB on the Node itself (Access point) and on any files that you want within that node (and on tghe next nodes access point, etc. So, assuming they actually survive the initial DB and remain on the node, they are left in bad shape, and in a definite position to be picked off by Spiders, IC or the next DB. Securing a system ain't really all that hard. *shrug*

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I think it's okay that the software is hard on technos - they have to be bad in some areas, and I never saw technomancers as the types to go decking the baddest ICE - they're a more mystical sort that go looking for the Resonant Realms, not Renrakus blackest datacores.. (and yes, this is a fluff-inspired opinion, discard at your leisure.)

I agree that Technos need to be vulnerable in some areas, ands this is one of them. *shrug*

[Jaid]

you can't give a severe phobia to the matrix with psychotropic. 15 BP max, which means if you want a common trigger, it has to be moderate at most.

now, the matrix is pretty pervasive in SR4. you can't really avoid it. frankly, if there was a category even more common than common, the matrix should probably be in it. point being, the matrix is not something that imo you can validly claim to be an unccommon trigger for a phobia. it's everywhere in some form or another.

you could arguably give a severe phobia of your PAN, i suppose (or the node the bomb is set up in, etc). which would get similar results, i suppose.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

you can't give a severe phobia to the matrix with psychotropic. 15 BP max, which means if you want a common trigger, it has to be moderate at most.

now, the matrix is pretty pervasive in SR4. you can't really avoid it. frankly, if there was a category even more common than common, the matrix should probably be in it. point being, the matrix is not something that imo you can validly claim to be an unccommon trigger for a phobia. it's everywhere in some form or another.

you could arguably give a severe phobia of your PAN, i suppose (or the node the bomb is set up in, etc). which would get similar results, i suppose.

Indeed, Moderate (They both are at -4, whcih is what I was remembering, but Sever adds an additional Composure (3) test to the mix)
However, Moderate or Severe, it is a trigger that will keep them incapacitated for a bit. But yes, if you want to really screw them, make it a Sever FOR THAT SYSTEM... Problem Solved...

[Lionhearted]

RatingD6 would still leave the possibility of rolling low. i've played too many RPGs to look at a d6 and believe that just because it's average value is something, that i can't roll pathetically low on it and get less than half the average.

just because your *average* damage is 21, that doesn't mean squat. sure, your *average* might be that high,

I've thrown enough fireballs in my days to know that average is far from average (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Jaid]

I've thrown enough fireballs in my days to know that average is far from average (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

i know what you mean there. i play 2nd edition D&D fairly often and manage about 20 damage on 10d6 on a regular basis - very frustrating because in 2nd edition, you can often actually do something quite meaningful with a fireball (3rd edition basically makes it all about the save-or-die spells). it's depressing when you throw a level 10 fireball at a group of 2-3 HD creatures and have to worry about whether you're going to actually get rid of them or not...

on the plus side, my damage with lightning bolt seems to do just fine, and my magic missile is actually quite consistently very close to the average.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

i know what you mean there. i play 2nd edition D&D fairly often and manage about 20 damage on 10d6 on a regular basis - very frustrating because in 2nd edition, you can often actually do something quite meaningful with a fireball (3rd edition basically makes it all about the save-or-die spells). it's depressing when you throw a level 10 fireball at a group of 2-3 HD creatures and have to worry about whether you're going to actually get rid of them or not...

on the plus side, my damage with lightning bolt seems to do just fine, and my magic missile is actually quite consistently very close to the average.

My Fireballs and Lightning Bolts tend to fall at average or higher, more often than not, while my MM's are pretty shoddy. Almost all of my wife's Magic Missiles (and Firel/Lightning spells as well) almost always hit very close to the maximum, much to the chagrin of the rest of the team members who are often in danger close.

[Lionhearted]

(3rd edition basically makes it all about the save-or-die spells).

Nah it's all about the No save and suck or Save or suck, even if you save you're still hurting.

Spells like stinking cloud or enervate (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Nah it's all about the No save and suck or Save or suck, even if you save you're still hurting.

Spells like stinking cloud or enervate (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Funny, I have never had any complaints about Edition 3.5 in that regard. *shrug*

[_Pax._]

My only complaint was the save-or-no effect spells. I avoided them, generally. Saves were too easy to make, and I didn't like all-or-nothing gambles. I always planned for the enemy to make every save, and for me to fail them all. That way, the only deviations from The Plan, were in my favor. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Lionhearted]

Funny, I have never had any complaints about Edition 3.5 in that regard. *shrug*

Who said I was complaining?
I'm all for subterfuge and battlefield control over raw damage (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Understood _Pax_ and Lionhearted. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[_Pax._]

I'm all for subterfuge and battlefield control over raw damage (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Hahahaha.

The GM for the first 3.X edition game I joined - it started before the 3.0E MM was published - had a habit of combats taking place in a largely uninteresting, flat stretch of land. No terrain to try and leverage advantage from, except a few trees here and there.

...

So my Wizard (replacement for my first character) collected every Wall spell in the bloody books. I figured, "if the GM won't give me terrain to use, I'll make my own!" The (slight) look of pained frustration when, at least half the time, I'd manage to place a wall, or a turret (love the Shapeables like WoStone), or whatever, in EXACTLY teh right place ... that was absolutely delicious, every time it happened.

He asked me one time, "why do you keep casting those wall spells? Why not a Fireball or something?"

My answer was, "Because the walls are more effective than most of my direct-damage spells. Besides, I'm a necromancer, and picked Evocation to be locked out of. Plus you keep throwing us against Golems and negative-energy-immune stuff, anyway."

...

Good times, good times. (The one time when I ended a big fight with twice as many HP as I'd started it - yayy, Vampiric Touch - was especially fun. I think he nearly went crosseyed over that. ;D )

[Lionhearted]

My druidsorc (w. the ultrabroken Arcane hierophant PrC) makes for great fun. Disabled an entire warband of hobgoblins using stinking clouds to blind their archers and nuke their mages. Then I put all their brutes on the other side of an artic wind (druid spell from Frostburn, like CoC and GoW on crack) All the while flying around out of range in dire hawk form and having my Smilodon familiar companion pounce weakened targets.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

My druidsorc (w. the ultrabroken Arcane hierophant PrC) makes for great fun. Disabled an entire warband of hobgoblins using stinking clouds to blind their archers and nuke their mages. Then I put all their brutes on the other side of an artic wind (druid spell from Frostburn, like CoC and GoW on crack) All the while flying around out of range in dire hawk form and having my Smilodon familiar companion pounce weakened targets.

Everyone should have a Smilodon Familiar Companion. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[_Pax._]

Druid? Ah, crap I can't remember the name of it, but there was a Spontaneous Druid spellcaster class, really liked it. Charisma/Wisdom hybrid, IIRC. That'd go awesomely with Sorceror, though I don't recall how Druid-only the Arcane Heirophant was.

[Jaid]

heh, my preferred spells in 2nd edition change a lot over time. stinking cloud is great (and even better for being a level 2 spell when there's not a ton of good combat options for level 2 spells in 2nd edition) when you first get it, starts to slow down quite a bit over time. web is obscenely good and remains good for a long time (though you have to be picky about using it at the right time). of course, as you fight tougher opponents they make the saves more often, but one of my favourite times was when the group managed to get their hands on several potions of vitality, which made you immune to poison... which meant i could just drop stinking cloud right on top of ourselves with no drawbacks for us (obviously, this was a drawback for anything that wanted to melee us though ^^ )

and magic missile is of course the old standby for being a guaranteed hit against many enemies.

just recently in the current game i'm playing got access to level 4 spells, and improved invisibility... good times (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) (the group's rogue is enjoying being able to damage stuff for once, what with getting backstab almost 100% of the time now)

[Lionhearted]

Sorc was purely for RP reasons, without using ultra munchkinism, wizard is stronger.
She's all about the tribal shaman vibe, frequently having animal like mannerisms in the way she moves and interacts with people. Snarls, standing crouched with your hands leaned on your legs, tilting your head when examing someone, sniffing... Those sorts of things.
She despises civilisation, especially cities. She has little sympathy for citydwellers and only sides with nature. Gives her quite an empathic connection with her companion, that she refuses to not have run free (it's okey he's smarter then the average orc)
Based her off Sorsha and the brownies in Willow and several characters from the old Elfquest comics.

[_Pax._]

One of my favorite classes is/was the Artificer, from Eberron. Love the idea of it. And it provides the GM with a safety valve, in case he sets some DC too high, or puts in a foe he _thought_ the group had the weapons to face, but doesn't actually. (That early 3E GM I mentioned previously did that; put us against some golems with a stupendous DR, something like 30/+3 ... and was all, "what, I gave you guys that +3 warhammer", and we were "and we SOLD it because none of us use warhammers, remember that?" (Our main fighters were a 2H swordsman, and a Polearm-wielder. Funny thing, the swordsman was our other WIZARD. Who liked to shapechange into Trolls and things.)