Any interest in an updated SR3 chargen? Options

[Phyxion]

NSRCG is great, but I've found a couple bugs in the last week or so (after not having the opportunity to play SR3 for *years*)... plus, in my opinion the interface could be a little more user friendly. Not to knock mcmackie, especially since I've used NSRCG so much, myself!

Are there enough people who still play SR3 and would like a "better" character generator to make it worth doing and posting here?

[nezumi]

I play SR3, but use sum-to-ten almost exclusively.

[melquisedeq]

Are there enough people who still play SR3 and would like a "better" character generator to make it worth doing and posting here?

I so would, that it's almost ridiculous, really.
No mistake: like you said, NSRCG is a heaven-sent, a tremendous time-saver, but for heavy-duty users (not unlike myself) there are little imperfections that could definitely use some tweaking, besides a bit more polish in the graphical department. Adjustable window size, for instance. A simple "Free Mode" toggle to overrun nuyen and karma costs, so I as GM can update my PCs bonuses without fudging total karma or credstick balance. Little stuff like this...

If you're really going ahead and need some help, drop me a line.
And thanks for asking, either way.

[Phyxion]

Well, it's a start. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I'm going to move ahead with this project, so for the moment this is where any suggestions and comments should go. I haven't been able to get in touch with the NSRCG author, so this will most likely be a clean room implementation. I haven't decided whether to try to use the same file formats.

My own personal "wishlist" of features:

Bigger screen area - probably not going to make it resizeable (unless it's a highly desired feature), but definitely larger
Multilevel "container" support - keep track of what ammo is loaded in your gun, what you're storing in your GMC Bulldog, how many grenades you're carrying into that nightclub, etc.
Better (non-webpage) character sheet
"Effects" display - active spells and drug effects, with modified stats visible
Immediate diceroller - button on guns, programs, spells, etc; should take all character info into account
Clean up bugs - "leftovers" when starting new character or loading existing, displayed controls not getting updated
Better journaling for karma and cash income/expenditure

Any other suggestions are welcome.

[Tiralee]

Well, if you're editing NSRCG I hope you've got McMackie's permission... Seriously, that thing is still awesome.

But I'd love it if the GM Edit stuff didn't have so many runtime errors, and the Ally spirit thing was finished:)

Resizing would be fantastic...

And cross-platform functionality, if anyone's got the time fo dat:)

-It's a worthy endevour though,

Tir!

[Stahlseele]

*waves*
ooh! here! me! yes! please!
if you can actually make something that's BETTER than NSRCG, i will be very impressed!
i'd settle for something just as good as NSRCG but without bugs and more complete too.

[Phyxion]

Looks like this might be getting some traction, I'm excited. Here's a little more info for those interested:

This is NOT based on the source code of NSRCG (or any other char gen tool). I have so far been unable to contact the author of NSRCG to get his permission. I'm still interested in doing so, as it will likely save me a lot of time; if anyone is able to get me in touch with mcmackie, please do.

I do not currently own (or otherwise have access to) a Mac, so the priority for cross-platform compatibility will be Windows (first priority) and then Linux, with a potential Mac version when those are stable. Android and other tablet support would be a "nice to have" once the Mac version is finished.

I'm going to assume there are non-English speakers who will be using this, so everything (including the interface) should be multi-lingual (ideally, using the same data files).

Resizing seems to be a much-desired feature, so it's in. I'm also planning to include some GM tools, such as a run generator, NPC generator/library and dice roller.

I still don't have a good name for this thing, suggestions appreciated.

I'm planning for all data files, including the character files, to be XML.

I have not made a final decision on what language/tools/build system to use. Was planning to just use Visual Studio, but the request for cross-platform made me rethink that. I'm evaluating tools now, while I work on the data design. Suggestions are welcome.

[Stahlseele]

If you do it in java as well, it will be compatible. Yes, i know, Java is a badly broken crutch . . but it works.
What's wrong with Char-Sheet as HTML?
It's compatible and easy and works on all devices with a browser, even smartphones.
When printed out it leaves enough space to fill in stuff and if you know a bit of HTML you can modify it out of the tool by inserting pictures for example.

What about including the Rungenerator stuff from Mr.Johnsons Blackbook/Sprawl-Sites and the gun building tool man-at-arms in this?

[Phyxion]

Most of my programming experience is in C/C++, so that's my focus. I have a personal distaste for Java, but if the GUI tools are good enough it's an option. The "short list" right now consists of Juce and wxWidgets.

IMO: The HTML sheet is ugly, it's split into multiple pages when it doesn't need to be (and isn't when it does), and there is a lot of stuff that doesn't get calculated/displayed on it that probably should.

That said, HTML output will almost certainly be an option for those who want it - it's close enough to XML that export should be easy to implement. Probably PDF as well. No real reason not to give people more options.

I've never heard of Man-At-Arms. A quick google search didn't find any valid links, do you know where I can get a copy?

The run generator will have options to use those sourcebooks, yes. I'd like to have things like spirit/drone/deck/vehicle/gun building tools built in, but they'll be worked on only after the main character generator is usable.

[Stahlseele]

here, i uploaded a copy of man at arms to zippyshare
http://www41.zippyshare.com/v/43645074/file.html

[Phyxion]

Thanks. I don't see any issue with getting that functionality built into the new program.

[Tiralee]

Seriously, focus on your strengths and get the heavy lifting done first. Cross-platform is a juicy thing, but unless it works properly, I'd recommend you forget it for the moment.

Run gens, npc gens (actually, linking "expected" stats for the contacts would be another awesome addition. That means a LOT of sourcebook-mining though.) gang generator, pedestrian generators - I remember those, but they were SR2, but still very useful. I've actually used the 20 or so pages of insect spirits I'd printed out 10 years ago and then went looking for the site, thank god for the wayback machine.

- these would be awesome to madlib using the "Together, they fight crime!" generators
(He's a kleptomaniac ex-advertising executive with a gambling addiction, she's an orphaned war veteran obsessed with Karl Kombatmage. Together, they run the shadows!")

Hell, having a half-useful matrix gen would make people fall over (SR3 rules, not 2 or 4)

Or a random monster generator? (Base state animal creature, add armoured hide and <insert ability here> and suddenly, that abandoned sewer your team was travelling down is a lot less abandoned.)

Oh god, deck and gun-builds, please.

I remember (god, a decade ago?) someone trying to excel together a vehicle generator and we all know how broken some of those wheeled and winged abortions could be, using the Revised rigger rules.

One of the awesome things About McMackie's work is that NSRCG was fast, simple and the additional options weren't hanging in your face. Having used a multitute of "easy" generators, it's still the best I've ever seen. And you can use the same generator for different generation schemes. If your efforts yield something AS good, I'll be impressed.


That being said, yes, the default HTML sheets were a dog's arse and exporting them to PDF would be a rather nifty thing, but is it possible to source another's SR3 sheet (and there were a few lovely ones out there) and get their permission to use it as the template input, and just ensure that the spaces were keyed in to import the results of the final (or revised) character?

And even though those html sheets weren't pretty, they worked. The output's got to work:)

Sorry, more info dump's likely to come on in as well:)

OOOH: Extraplaner quests (Place of battle, place of charisma, etc) they can be rolled up simply.
Shadow clinics!
Initiatory Lodges/schools

Random spells:)

....Actually, sticking that spell and foci-design stuff into an auto-calculator (plus all the random weird shit you need for that Force 8 Katana weapon focus) would reduce the overhead in regards to DM rolls.
"Sure, you can have it, but according to this formula you stole, you're going to need...<checks list> 4 units of the good stuff, and a pint of dragon semen."

Annnnnd: Punch/publicity rules for reporting and performing. (Shadowbeat, natch)

Maybe the deprogramming/programming human psyche via ASSIST things?


I'm reaching, but yeah, don't forget the "build your own home" advantages/disadvantages to your squat. That thing was pretty damn nifty. Even if all the mages had "manaline in the basement"


-Tir.

[Tiralee]

OMG, I've got the beginnings of my new SR team.

"He's an oversexed unemployed mountaineer with a pair of foreceps.
She's a hunchbacked cyborg chef with someone else's memories.

Together, They Fight Crime!"

Done in one.


-Tir

<Edit>
Oh god, it got better...
He's a kleptomaniac French-Canadian with a trick up his sleeve.
She's a forgetful barbarianwith a flame-thrower.
Together, They cause Crime!

[Stahlseele]

THere was an already coded run creator using the Mr.Johnsons Blackbook stuff, but the .swf file seems to have vanished from the webbernets it seems.

[Phyxion]

The thing about cross platform, though, is that if you don't at least plan for it at the beginning of the project, it becomes *massively* more difficult to do later on. At least, that's my experience as a mostly self-taught professional programmer. So, yeah, not going to mess about with it until I have the Windows version (mostly) done, but I'll be using a cross-platform toolkit from the start. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Stahlseele]

Call it the DSCG3.5A

[Bigity]

I would love it.

[ferats]

I'd love to see it updated! My group still mostly plays SR3.

If you're looking for bugs to fix:

1) I've noticed if you add "Albino" to your character then later remove it, it won't remove the Albino flaws from the flaws list, nor will it allow you to remove them manually
2) Sometimes if I've added the "Extra stat point" perk whose name eludes me at the moment and use the back/forward arrows to rapidly bounce back and forth between the character stats and skills screens it will forget that the point was added and complain that I have 25/24 points spent and not let me leave until I knock a point off, and then complain that I don't have enough spent when I go back over it later (it'll show 24/24 spent, not let me go to 25, and not be happy until I go to 23 then return to 24). No amount of removing/re-adding/changing the extra stat point perk will fix it.

[melquisedeq]

Hey Phyxion, any news on this?

Also... I just took Chummer 5 for a testdrive, and think it's the dog's bollocks. Any chance of having an offshoot of it for 3rd edition, using the same GUI?

[Phyxion]

Still working on the data design, actually. When you get down to mechanically how things interact with each other, there are a surprising amount of special cases. I'm working on getting them into a manageable number of generic interactions that I can reasonably work with. Things would be easier if I'd been able to get hold of the guy who did NSRCG, but that's life.

As far as the interface, I have a mockup already in place. I may take some design cues from Chummer, certainly (most of it does seem pretty well laid out), but I will not be using it as a baseline for "conversion" to 3e. This is primarily because Chummer is a C#/.Net application, and without going through a whole bunch of additional effort on my part, that closes off anything non-Windows. Pretty much a non-starter in my opinion. If someone else wants to try that, I'm all in favor of more options, but it's not something I'm comfortable with.

I'm hoping to have at least a bare-bones framework in place by the first of the year. That would be things like a dice roller, run generator, and a few other things that don't need the character or equipment system in place to work.

[melquisedeq]

Thanks, man! Looking forward to this.

If you need any help from someone totally inept at programming, let me know.

[Stahlseele]

*waits with baited breath*

[Mach_Ten]

Oh gods yes,

Rigger love me up ! (use axle grease!)

just make it simple to add accessories to weapons / vehicles / armour including the increased availability costs.

a char sheet that shows cyber enhanced Melee / magic enhanced melee as weapons

[Pendaric]

I would like to see this as its mostly memory and pencil/paper most of the time.

[Shev]

Well, if you're editing NSRCG I hope you've got McMackie's permission... Seriously, that thing is still awesome.

I think it's open source...