The physad power Quick Strike, I've been confused by it for years Options Track this topic Email this topic Print this topic Download this topic Subscribe to this forum Display Modes Switch to: Outline Standard Switch to: Linear+

[Wounded Ronin]

For years, I've had MITS. For years, I've flipped through the physad power section, laughing at how stupid and overpriced a lot of the powers, such as Nerve Strike, are.

One power, Quick Strike, totally confused me. It costs 3 power points, but seems to do nothing more than what you could do under normal circumstances with a delayed action.

[Adam]

If you use a Delayed Action to try and act first in the next initiative pass, you're still not guaranteed to act first. You're forced to go no sooner than the Combat Phase equal to the highest Initiative Score for that pass, and thus you'll need to make a test to determine if you go first or second [or third or fourth...], if there are more than 1 person in that first Combat Phase. Note that since the first tie-breaker is "Who has the highest initiative score in the first pass", the person who was originally at the top of the heap will likely win that test.

Also, if you delay into the next pass, that counts as your action for that pass. Or, at least, I believe it's supposed to, but the rules for that seem a little, ehm, murky.

[Tarantula]

How about acting first in the first pass of the combat? That seems pretty useful to me. Sure, you have wired 3, but I go first and kill you, so it was worthless. Something along those lines?

[Glyph]

Quick strike is devastating because Shadowrun combat tends to be quick and deadly. Combined with the improved ability power, it can result in someone who can take out several enemies before they even have a chance to react. It is more specialized than, say, improved reflexes: 2 (a more generally useful ability which also costs 3 points), but still worth the points for the combat edge that it provides.

[Club]

It's the 'unwounded' requirement that drops from useful ability to cool stunt, IMHO.

[Moon-Hawk]

It's kinda like it comes with a built-in geas. Try to use that argument to talk your GM into letting you get a 4 point version that works whether you're wounded or not.
Of course, at four points you might not be interested anymore, but it's a thought. You could always geas the power with something else to get the cost back to 3. :)

[Kanada Ten]

And think about it, you get to go first every pass in which you have an action, regardless of your actual ini score. Let's say, for the sake of it that we have three runners with scores of 21, 13, and 8 and that the Quick Strike Adept has the 13. On the first pass the adept goes first (13 before the 21 or 8) and on the second pass the adept goes first (3 before the 11)

[Demosthenes]

I think you only get to use it in one pass per combat turn...though I could be mistaken.

As to Geasa for it, there's always "only with my [insert favoured weapon here]".

[Kanada Ten]

Oops, you're right.

[Tarantula]

Demo, you're right. In Kanada's example he would go first in the first pass before the 21. Next pass through, 21 goes, then him, then 11, then 8, then 3, then 1. So he'd get second the first time through, unless of course, he killed the 21.

[Demosthenes]

It's still fun though...especially if you munchkinise your MP-wielding, quick-drawing, Full-auto-firing, centre-all-the-time-and-blow-the-s#!t-out-of-everyone Adept through the ceiling....

[Kanada Ten]

[Tarantula]

Err, I worded it badly, Order would go like this: Adept, Sammy, slowguy, sammy, adept, sammy.

[Wounded Ronin]

But it says "This power cannot be used during an Initiative Pass when the adept does not have an action".

So, like, if you already spent 3 power points on Quick Strike, at best you could get Improved Reflexes II if you burned all the rest of your power points.

And once you were there, you'd still be autopwned by a Wired III or Improved Reflexes III guy who gets to go ahead of you anyway before you have any actions.

[mfb]

eh? no you wouldn't. everybody acts in the first init pass. it's only in the later init passes where they'd get to act but you wouldn't.

[Wounded Ronin]

Ooohhh, so what the power is supposed to do is let you automatically act first while we're still cycling through everyone's action the first time, before we subtract 10 from the init scores and do it again.

Oooh, I get it. That was the source of my confusion. Somewhere along the line I had picked up the incorrect definition of "pass". (Yeah, I was doing init correctly, but I just didn't call a pass a pass.) Heh, wow, I learn so much about the rules on this board.

[mfb]

basically. only you don't have to use it in the first init pass; you can use it in any pass where you've got an action, so long as you haven't already used it this round.

[GrinderTheTroll]

Let's you throw down a 1st-pass ass whoopin' on that 6D+13 street sam who's probably gonna geek the mage first with only your 2D6+6 roll.

Useful IMO.

[Jrayjoker]

So basically since everyone gets to go at least once, the physad with this power can choose to go first in any pass, but does not gain any additional passes, right?

Can the physad declare he is using his quick strike at any time before or during the uberfast guys turn?

Example:

Uberfast: I am going to shoot the ninja looking guy.

Ninja looking guy: Hold on there Sparky, I use quickstrike to tag you and hopefully up your TNs.

Thoughts?

[Bigity]

But 3 points, only when unwounded useful?

[Jrayjoker]

If you can act before the fast guy wounds you, sure it matters. But, I think it should be a 1-2 point power due to its inherent limitations.

AKA I agree.

[Bigity]

Oh yea, definately useful. I just house-rule the injury limitation on it. Never had anyone take it at CG, but I have had a couple of initiated adepts use it.

[Jrayjoker]

I could see this being a better power if bought later as well.

[U_Fester]

[The White Dwarf]

The usefulness/power of this ability depends entierly on the other suite of abilites on the character using it and the situation at hand. Its not better or worse than IR2, which has the same cost, its just different. Theres times when going first is cool, and times when going often is cool. The unwounded part is just something you gotta keep in mind when building this ability in, ie make sure you can soak pretty well or work things so you dont get attacked much.

[GrinderTheTroll]

So would Pain Resistance or something to augment the feeling of pain (modifiers) qualify as "unwounded"?

[Kanada Ten]

No. But likewise, illusion spells will not cause the power to fail for apparent wounds.

[mfb]

of course, if the physad doesn't know it's an illusion, he might not try.

[ES_Riddle]

[toturi]

Most sams I've seen are ugly, not weak willed. Most of them have Willpower at least 5.

[Tarantula]

Then Drain(Cha) them into mindlessness. Same effect, and I think its a lesser drain too.

[kevyn668]

Ahhh, yes...the infamous Drain(char) vs. sams debate. I remember it well. :)

[Tarantula]

Indeed, its where I stole the idea from, still haven't ever even bothered to try it out yet.

[kevyn668]

Of course not. Prob'ly for the very reasons listed in the debate.

[ES_Riddle]

[toturi]

[ES_Riddle]

[The White Dwarf]

Killing Hands M is invaluble. For the points cost its probably the most effecient level of the power you can buy. That aside theres 2 reasons why.

First, stun isnt as good as physical. 75% of the time in our games, the majority of the pary is doing physical damage. And if whatever you hit doesnt die, doing stun damage to it wont add to the damage already accrued. Which means you cant team up to bring down a target. The % will change for each group, but the situation remains.

Second, it bypasses spirit-type immunities because its magical. Which means you can use it to hurt things you normally cant. Including astral targets if you also have astral perception. And since the majority of things in this category tend to rank fairly high on the threat-o-meter this is a pretty big plus.

[Tarantula]

Just from a cheezy standpoint. Having half the group do stun and the other half physical is rather effective. M Stun & M wound? Sorry, +4(6?) to EVERYTHING. The modifiers stack, which hurts anything rather bad.

The spirits is a good point, but usually adepts are rather adept at combatting spirits with will anyway. (Pardon the pun)

[The White Dwarf]

Yea big tn mods are nice, but remember the alternative is to just have the opposition dead. Which is kinda more of a concluding force than a tn mod. Not that you always want to kill people, but it comes up and when it does you need it done fast. Faster the better. Which makes comparing killing hands to stun like saying you dont need gas vent cause you have recoil comp rom strength- you really cant have enough.

[Tarantula]

If your gun can only burst, 6 is plenty! :P

[mfb]

what white dwarf said. i'd rather have a dead enemy than an enemy who's still shooting at me, even with +6 TN.

[Shockwave_IIc]

i Like the fact that you can use it as a form of Pre-cognition. Act first, delay then you get to see what someone is doing.

[Lindt]

I'd so not allow that... The idea is you go FIRST. You are flat out super-naturally fast. In the spirit of the power delaying that action is pretty bogus.
And shame on you for being a thread necromancer...

[Shockwave_IIc]

Damn forgot i first pages back, just reading on what i had missed the last 2 months.

And why can't someone explain the power that way?

[mfb]

someone who's supernaturally fast ought to be able to note what slower people are doing, and act to counter them. plus, QS costs three power points, and it's already got a serious limitation imposed on it.

[Tarantula]

Honestly, thats just stupid. It allows you to ACT first. Delaying is a free action, and therefore you are not acting first if you delay. You gotta use a simple or complex action in order to "act".

At least, thats how I'd play it.

[Moon-Hawk]

Eh, I could see that going either way. By the letter of the rules it seems allowable. You act first. First action - delay.
I certainly see your point; you feel that it is counter to the intention of the power; but other people may not feel the same.
In either case, probably a good question to ask your GM if you're thinking about taking it.

[shadow_scholar]

It's magical, therefore the standard physics of just getting to act first don't apply. I'd let a player first learn what the fastest Init guy is going to do, then interrupt the action with his Quick Strike, especially if it costs the adept 3 magic points. Geez, am I the only one who thinks a lot of the adept powers are way too expensive?

[mfb]

i don't understand why it's allowable to delay when you roll a higher init than anyone else, but not when you use the QS power.

[Tarantula]

I'd go with scholar actually, where the adept can see the first action, and choose to interrupt only that with his quick strike power. This still has the adept acting first.

If the adept can delay, he can use quickstrike, delay until he goes last, and then go, which is not what the ability allows.