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> Tattoo Magic, How many Force'd you say he had Tattood?
Sphynx
post Sep 13 2003, 04:14 PM
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Going through a skin calculator I found on the internet which takes height/weight and determines the square centimeters of skin a person has, here is the amount of skin the average member of each race has using the Revised Heights & Weights Chart found in the TSS Supplemental #13

CODE

Cyclops           78,400    21(2,800)
Dryad              7,600     2(  400)
Dwarf             12,200     3(1,400)
Female Elf        17,200     4(2,800)
Male Elf          20,300     5(2,300)
Enkantada         17,200     4(2,800)
Enkanto           20,300     5(2,300)
Fomori            58,400    16(  800)
Female Giant      82,500    22(3,300)
Male Giant        97,500    27(  300)
Gnome              8,300     2(1,100)
Female Hobgoblin  21,000     5(3,000)
Male Hobgoblin    22,700     6(1,100)
Female Human      15,400     4(1,000)
Male Human        18,200     5(  200)
Koborokuru        10,200     2(3,000)
Menehune           9,600     2(2,400)
Minotaur          42,100    11(2,500)
Female NightOne   17,200     4(2,800)
Male NightOne     20,300     5(2,300)
Female Ogre       21,800     6(  200)
Male Ogre         23,700     6(2,100)
Female Oni        23,600     6(2,000)
Male Oni          25,700     7(  500)
Female Ork        23,600     6(2,000)
Male Ork          25,700     7(  500)
Satyr             18,200     5(  200)
Troll             61,800    17(  600)
Female Wayambi    36,200    10(  200)
Male Wayambi      42,700    11(3,100)


At 3,600 square cm for a Force 6 Tattoo, the 3rd number shows how many Force 6 spells you can Quicken for a TN 24 for dispelling, with the number in parenthesis showing left over skin. Don't forget, it's also Force 24 for resisting drain should someone foolishly attempt to dispel one of these bad boys (meaning Physical Drain if their Magic Rating is under 24)... :P

Admittedly, using that much of your body would be reaching into areas better left untouched, IMHO, so I wouldn't (personally) allow that much coverage unless you were a larger than average being for your race. :P

Anyhows, despite my showing how to tweak the numbers, the main objective of this post was to give those people like myself, who had NO idea how much he could tattoo (I actually figured 2 Force6 max for a human sized before finding the chart), a chart for a feel of how much they could blast on themselves to make themselves into a walking Background Count. ;)

Sphynx
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Gyro the Greek S...
post Sep 13 2003, 04:20 PM
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I'm impressed and a bit creeped out.
Just the fact that people are calculating amounts of skin on a body is a bit...disconcerting.
:eek:
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Zazen
post Sep 13 2003, 04:47 PM
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It's also useful for showing the lower limit to the amount of ruthenium you need for a full-body suit or cloak.
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Crusher Bob
post Sep 13 2003, 04:50 PM
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Notice that the skin calculator might include 'everywhere' while your suit can, err, cut a few corners, or did you want something that wass really skin tight?
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last_of_the_grea...
post Sep 13 2003, 05:45 PM
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It's also usefull if you have an ally spirit that has a (meta)human form you wanna dikote. ;)
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Kagetenshi
post Sep 13 2003, 07:21 PM
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So how much "untouched skin" do you think would need to be left to keep from using certain parts of the body? I'm thinking all you'd need to subtract is the genitals and, depending on the character, the top of the head and perhaps the eyelids, though I could see those being used by a sufficiently dedicated character. Also perhaps subtracting the ears, as I can't really imagine a coherent picture going onto them... though does it have to be coherent or can it just be a pattern?

~J
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NightWind
post Sep 13 2003, 07:39 PM
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I beg to differ on body parts, Kagetenshi.

You can stick a comprehensive image or pattern on an ear or genital or the other parts not mentioned. ;)


Unless you're talking about a tattoo that, once used, rips out of the skin and disappears. I can conceivably cross my legs and cross that part off the list.


My Husband is a tattooist and piercer. So this topic intrigued me.

Can you guys explain to a total brain dead newbie what types of tattoos you're looking at? I know their magical, but the rest was sort of gibberish to my sleep fogged brain.

NightWind
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Sphynx
post Sep 13 2003, 08:42 PM
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NightWind,

Tattoo magic is a way of expanding on the ritualistic behavior of Yakuza and primitive tribes to show that their actions are founded on older understandings of Magic that now actually work.

So, a person who can get 7 tattoos (an Orc) could get aztec lookin gazelle legs tattoo'd to his legs for +6 Quickness, Bear imagery on his arms for a +6 Strength, Rock looking tattoos on his abdomen and lower back for +6 Body, Fire shaped tattoo on his chest and shoulders for +6 Willpower, Puzzles and geometric shapes on his head and face for +6 Int, Wire looking tattoos down his spine and upper back for +6 Reaction and an air looking tattoo throughout the rest of his body, combining all the sections for +3D6 Initiative. (I personally can't imagine tattoos helping with charisma unless the target is a biker chick :P)

Would make an interesting character and cost 84 karma total to have all 7 spells at Force 24 for dispelling....

Sphynx
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Kagetenshi
post Sep 13 2003, 08:53 PM
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Nightwind, I'm perfectly aware that it's entirely possible to put tattoos just about anywhere, I was just wondering how many tattoos those who are slightly less... dedicated might fit in :)
I'm impressed about the ear bit, though. How does one deal with the folds?

~J
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Stumps
post Sep 13 2003, 09:11 PM
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Ahhh....Shpynx, still at the 'ol adding machine ;)
Good to see that things haven't changed too much.
I likey very much :D .
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KosherPickle
post Sep 13 2003, 09:14 PM
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QUOTE (Sphynx)
Would make an interesting character and cost 84 karma total to have all 7 spells at Force 24 for dispelling....

<breaks bottle over Sphynx's head and steals character idea>

That's the great thing about NPCs. They don't have to make sense. :)
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NightWind
post Sep 13 2003, 09:51 PM
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*grinning at KageTenshi*

Depends on which folds we're talking about. :grinbig:

Well, IRL, tattoos in folded skin tend to fade pretty fast, or heal wrong. Normal healing time on a tattoo is 2 to 3 weeks to a Month. Thing is, if yer putting it in a fold of skin, or possibly the crease int he elbo.. back of the knee type thing. You move that part constantly. And therefore it makes the healing a lot harder.

It's like a cut. If you get it on a forearm or somewhere, it heals rather quickly because you're not moving it too much.
Folds of skin like the crease of the elbow, tends to get stretched and moved a lot. Which makes it harder for the new skin to heal up over the tattoo.


Heh. Am I making any sense in what i'm saying?

NightWind
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Kagetenshi
post Sep 13 2003, 09:58 PM
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I was more wondering about the technical aspects of keeping a good pattern going through all the folds in an ear.
As for healing, though, you could potentially just stay immobilized until healing occurs. After all, it's for your job.

~J
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NightWind
post Sep 13 2003, 10:33 PM
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Lemme tell ya. It's not easy, but I've seen people with it done. flowers, spiders, ect. But i think the Tribal stuff works best there.

However, I'm not that insane.

As to staying put? For SR, I think you'd have to make a Willpower roll to stay still that long. How many of you can stay still for even an hour when something ITCHES! Not to mention the ointment on the tattoo and the rest of the care and feeding stuff.

Yes, Tattoos can be a real pain when they're healing. Just wait. First, they become Hand Magnets. Yes, trust me, no matter where you get the tattoo. SOMEONE is going to lay a hand on that very sore area. Second, it'll start to itch like crazy. No fair scratching... heheh Slap it if ya have to, but no scratching. ;)

Now, try and stay still for an entire month while it heals.

NightWind
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Velocity
post Sep 13 2003, 11:11 PM
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QUOTE
KosherPickle wrote:
<breaks bottle over Sphynx's head and steals character idea>

Yo, ditto that. :)
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The Dastardly De...
post Sep 14 2003, 04:39 AM
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QUOTE (Sphynx)
Going through a skin calculator I found on the internet

I wouldn't mind getting that URL...
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Sphynx
post Sep 14 2003, 06:06 AM
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Skin Calculator.

Requires you to copy it and the js file to your PC to remove the max height/weight/ageChange though. It's made for humans. :P

Sphynx
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kenji
post Sep 14 2003, 12:00 PM
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this inspired an alternative idea: the area of the tattoo could be required to be proportional to the target of the spell. so it would take about the same portion of an individual's surface to have the same effect. it makes a lot of sense, if you're binding health magic into a target's skin that you have to take the target's physiology into account.

it's a little uncanonical, but balances things nicely, as well. unfortunately, switching to the proportional tattoo magic would obviate mr. sphinx's work.
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Sphynx
post Sep 14 2003, 12:04 PM
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Hey, that wouldn't bother me at all (I play the max of 3 tattoos dwarf character). But give more ideas on that, how much could you fit on a character, what percent of skin per force, etc.

Sphynx
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kenji
post Sep 14 2003, 12:30 PM
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well, since it's going off canon, why not stick somewhere near what the original system would allow, but move it to a linear correlation between percentage and force. (SR seems to have a thing for sequences of number-squared, but bleh) say: a character can get up to around 20 total force at the absolute max. (assuming every inch of useable space IS used) so someone with around 18 force of tattoo magic would be pretty much covered in all the practical possible locations.

20 seems like a nice number. and a linear correlation between proportionate area and magical strength makes it conceptually simpler, and less math-intensive. it still forces a tradeoff between quantity and strength, but is numerically gentler. (thus 20 instead of 30 or so implied by the square-inch method.)

so if you really want the nitty gritty numbers, a force 1 magic-tattoo would take just under 5% of the target's surface area.
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Raptor1033
post Sep 14 2003, 01:51 PM
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so what about existing mundane tattoos? could you just quicken a spell into it already? could you overlay it with the same color ink and quicken it that way? or would you have to have it removed then replaced with the magical one?
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Sphynx
post Sep 14 2003, 02:12 PM
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Removed and replaced. The ink has to be made via the Enchanting skill.

Kenji, don't think you'll be able to do a non-exponential system for Force to square cm's. Currently it's only 100 sq cm for a Force 1, that's less than 1/180th of the skin. You'll need an exponential system such as (if we assume 18,000 is the average):

Force 6: 20%
Force 5: 14%
Force 4: 09%
Force 3: 05%
Force 2: 02%
Force 1: 00.50%

Sphynx
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NightWind
post Sep 14 2003, 04:31 PM
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*chuckling*

Now, in the future, I'm assuming that the removal of a tattoo is a lot less painful than it is now.

Here's a suggestion. Dont remove the regular tattoo, cover it up with the magical one.

As to skin coverage, heheh my Ork rigger has half her face done in a Maori facial design to enhance her overly large tusks.

However. IRl, I'm over 50% covered. What type of magic user does that make me? 7 of them are Dragons.

NightWind
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kenji
post Sep 15 2003, 02:55 AM
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QUOTE (Sphynx)
Kenji, don't think you'll be able to do a non-exponential system for Force to square cm's. Currently it's only 100 sq cm for a Force 1, that's less than 1/180th of the skin. You'll need an exponential system such as (if we assume 18,000 is the average):
[snip: one handy dandy chart]

i was suggesting proportional specifically to eliminate exact area numbers. and the linear suggestion was just a math reduction idea.

though your handy list of percentages could easily form the basis of an exponentially increasing Percentage of skin-area system. and if you really really needed an idea of the exact size, well, your first chart above multiplied by the spell's percent coverage gives a nice precise number.

/me goes and gets a dozen or so force 3 magic tattoos. :)

and you *could* simply change the system to linear (you just have to fiat it: every point of force now takes 5%, screw the published numbers!), but it *would* be grossly unfair to the rating 1 users, who would suddenly be using much more area for something quite fragile. (whoever that would be.)
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Samoth
post Sep 16 2003, 12:50 AM
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