 Maximum Edge?, whats the limit? |
 Oct 25 2005, 10:52 PM
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#1
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Spammer  Group: Banned Posts: 48 Joined: 22-October 05 Member No.: 7,879  |
Im confused?
In the improving Attributes section of the book it states that physical and mental attributes may only be raised to thier racial maximum with Karma and that resonance/magic can be raised to 6+initiation/submersion grade. Nowwhere in that section does it state how high of edge you can purchase with karma. It does however state in the character creation section section that you may only purchase up to rating 6(7 for humans) with BP. That limit however is specificly stated for character creation. Is this just a typo or something or is there no real maximum? |
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Oct 25 2005, 11:09 PM
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#2
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
Max Edge is 6 for metas, 7 for humans.
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Oct 26 2005, 12:35 AM
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#3
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
Yup, and with the Lucky Quality you can bump that up one more.
Why they didn't just include Edge in the list of Exceptional Attributes i'm not sure, it's not like you can get both an Exceptional Attribute and Lucky without a house rule anyway (they are both 20BP). |
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Oct 26 2005, 12:47 AM
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#4
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Or 7 and 8 respectively, if you include the Lucky Quality.
[edit] As Blakkie said above. Too many damn windows open! :P [/edit] |
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Oct 26 2005, 12:55 AM
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#5
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Spammer Group: Banned Posts: 48 Joined: 22-October 05 Member No.: 7,879 |
ahhh so its an accidental ommision from the book.....damn first printings..
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Oct 26 2005, 03:18 AM
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#6
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 355 Joined: 3-October 05 From: Ann Arbor, MI Member No.: 7,803 |
Probably because it's a special attribute, and they wanted to make sure people understood that special attributes can't be Exceptional. Otherwise, it'd be tempting to play Awakened/techno's with Exceptional Attribute: Magic/Resonance, just so that they can start with an even higher M/R rating. |
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Oct 26 2005, 02:17 PM
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#7
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,651 Joined: 23-September 05 From: Marietta, GA Member No.: 7,773 |
I'd be happy to initiate/immerse my Edge attribute. :)
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Oct 26 2005, 02:49 PM
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#8
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
No, that one they put explicitly state in Purchasing Attributes, Edge at the top of the right column on page 73. |
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Oct 26 2005, 05:28 PM
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#9
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 266 Joined: 16-April 02 From: DC Member No.: 2,605 |
Well, you can now gain positive qualities during character advancement. And the exceptional attribute says you can only take it once. This could be so that you can get them both if you care to spend the karma on it later on. The way I interpret them, aptitude and exceptional attribute can only be purchased once for that character; period. I think this because the incompetent negative quality says it can be taken multiple times, but each time for a separate skill.
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Oct 26 2005, 05:57 PM
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#10
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
I suppose the way it is written the 35 BP limit need not apply to Qualities "awarded" during play.
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Oct 26 2005, 07:08 PM
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#11
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,219 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lofwyr's stomach. Member No.: 1,320 |
Heck, since qualities bought after play are at "Gamemaster Discrection", I assume that no rules apply.
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Oct 26 2005, 08:59 PM
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#12
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Spammer Group: Banned Posts: 48 Joined: 22-October 05 Member No.: 7,879 |
I was referring to the fact that they left it out of character advancment section with karma pertaining to raising attrributes. Of course the maximum when you create a character is going to be 6 (barring other modifiers) Its when you go to raise the edge attribute with karma that I was wondering if there was an limit |
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Oct 26 2005, 09:34 PM
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#13
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
As far as I see it, the '35 BP' rule only applies at chargen. After that, the character is free to spend his Karma on additional Qualities, restricted only by the GM's discretion.
So, my question is ... do many people think that one extra Edge (or Attribute) Point is worth 40 Karma? |
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Oct 26 2005, 09:38 PM
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#14
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,219 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lofwyr's stomach. Member No.: 1,320 |
Plus the Karma cost of actually improving the attribute? If that attribute is edge, then HELL YES. |
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Oct 26 2005, 09:39 PM
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#15
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Edge is limited, both at chargen and in-game, to a maximum of 6 for metahumans and 7 for humans, or 7 and 8 respectively with the Lucky Quality. |
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Oct 27 2005, 07:53 PM
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#16
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,651 Joined: 23-September 05 From: Marietta, GA Member No.: 7,773 |
Considering each point of Edge is an exponential increase in effectiveness, I'd agree. |
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Oct 28 2005, 02:57 AM
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#17
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Right, so 61 Karma to raise it from 6 to 7. Considering you would already have a 6 Edge, I can think of quite a few places where I could spend 61 Karma in more effective ways. |
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Oct 28 2005, 03:19 AM
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#18
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 266 Joined: 16-April 02 From: DC Member No.: 2,605 |
Or 85 build points. What kind of power gamer are you if you question the logic of maxing out an attribute? :rotfl: Although when you add your edge to a dice pool for a roll, each extra point of edge is another dice for that attempt, and an extra time you can do this. I can truly see the benefit. Some players simply prefer to max out any ability they want their character to be good at, while others try to round out their character. To each their own. I guess as long as you don't get on your GM or fellow players nerves too much with your style of character development you are okay. |
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Oct 28 2005, 03:51 AM
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#19
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
Oh man, you should know better than to say something like that! Spending a point of edge gives you extra dice and gives you the rule of six - which makes every die contribute an average of .4 hits (including the base dice pool, if you use your edge ahead of time). But spending a point of edge to reroll failures brings each die up to a 5/9 hit contributor, and has the additional advantage that it works at full value even if used after the fact, and it has the added benefit of eliminating glitches most of the time. That being said, from an averages standpoint, and assuming the failure rerolling option's benefits for being used after the fact are unquantifiable, the two options are equal if 7/45 of your original dice pool is equal to 2/5 of your edge. Which means that even if you have an Edge of 7, you're better off just rerolling failures if your original dice pool is 19 or more dice (the breakeven point is 18 dice). With an edge of 6, you are better off rerolling failures with a 16 die pool. With an edge of 5, you are better off rerolling failures with a 13 die pool. With an edge of 4, you are better off rerolling failures with an 11 die pool. With an edge of 3, you are better off rerolling failures with an 8 die pool. With an edge of 2, you are better off rerolling failures with a 6 die pool. With an edge of 1, you are better off rerolling failures with a 3 die pool. So if you have any sort of min/maxxer's dice pool to start with, each edge point is actually worth less than the one before it. After all, at any given time you may or may not want to use edge between now and the next time your edge refreshes. And the less time there is before it refreshes, the less likely you are to need an edge expenditure before rollover. And the more edge you have, the more times you've used it (and thus the less time until rollover) before you get to your last one. When you buy a new point of edge, you are purchasing your last point, not your first one, and since most of the time you're going to be using it to reroll failures to save your hoop - there's a substantial chunk of diminishing returns. --- Now, if they let you buy an Edge of 9, that would be something. Suddenly you'd be better off rerolling failures only with a dice pool of 24 dice - which means that for almost all tasks you'd be pulling ahead on buying extra dice, which in turn means that your edge would start to really matter for things other than uses per adventure. But unless you're a spirit, you can't have an edge of nine, so that's that. -Frank |
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Oct 28 2005, 02:15 PM
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#20
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,219 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lofwyr's stomach. Member No.: 1,320 |
True, but since we've maxed out edge, it's possible we don't have the dice pools you describe.
In addition, There are many more options for using edge than just rerolling failures or adding dice. Gaining an extra initiative pass, or going first in a round, are a few I can think of. The advantage of the higher edge is the ability to use it more often. You savve points 1-3 for reroling critical failures, and after that you boost die rolls (Then reroll failures off the boosted die rool for max fun.), after you spend a point to go first in the round. First shot + Boosted dice pool + failure reroll = you win. |
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Oct 28 2005, 02:23 PM
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#21
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,651 Joined: 23-September 05 From: Marietta, GA Member No.: 7,773 |
Heh. What I was referring to wasn't a statistical increase, as the multifunctionality of Edge overly complicates the math per situation. I was just referring to the fact that for every X Edge, you can have X opportunities to roll X more dice. So one (common) iteration of Edge's use would give you X^2 more dice to throw every full refresh interval. |
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Oct 28 2005, 03:10 PM
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#22
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Can't do that, according to canon. Edge can only be used once per test. So if you use it to boost the roll, you can't use it for any other purpose on that roll ... even to avoid a Glitch. |
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Oct 28 2005, 03:48 PM
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#23
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,219 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lofwyr's stomach. Member No.: 1,320 |
Side's, if you are lucky like me, more dice pays off better than rerolling failures. rerolling failures only lets you get, at most, your dice pool in hits. Adding to the dice pool lets you get more hits than your origional dice pool. (Yeah, I know statistically it won't happen often, but it happens often enough to me. What can I say, I'm a dice charmer.) :)
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Oct 30 2005, 12:22 AM
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#24
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,665 Joined: 26-April 03 From: Sweden Member No.: 4,516 |
Maybe in a future sourcebook we'll get rules for 'Fortunates' They can learn special 'Tricks' which they use rolling Edge+their special 'Fluking' skill to use, and they can spend karma to increase their Edge attribute above the natural maximum by acquiring grades of 'Fate' - each time they reach another level of Fate they can aso learn special abilities like 'Twist Fate' which allows them to spend Edge on the rolls of others... |
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Oct 30 2005, 12:32 AM
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#25
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 403 Joined: 27-August 02 From: Scotland Member No.: 3,175 |
Stop it!
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