Dodging Grenades, Can you dodge into grenades? Options

[TheCrusader]

Hi all!
I'm new to the forum and would like to ask you guys (and girls ;) about the rules concerning dodging grenades.
It seems to me the opposed test can be avoided by the attacker by just aiming, say 1 meter next to the chosen target. Is that right or am I getting something wrong?

Also, is it possible to dodge "into" a grenade? I mean lets say you would be allowed to dodge in the example above and the guy aims the 'nade 2 meters to your left and it scatters 6 meters in your direction.
Then he rolls up 6 hits with a standard grenade, so hitting the spot. You roll 2 hits dodging and so the grenade scatters right on top of you.

Maybe I just misunderstood the rules, can anybody enlighten me, please.

Cheers,
Crusader

[elbows]

Yeah, the grenade scatter rules kind of suck. They are one area that didn't get simplified or improved in SR4, which is a shame.

You could, according to the rules, avoid the opposed test by targetting a spot right next to your target. You might lose some blast damage because of the 1 meter distance, but you might gain damage by getting more hits (once scatter is reduced to 0, extra hits increase the DV normally).

However, I wouldn't let a player try this on a moving target. If a player says "I'm throwing the grenade so it lands where the guard (who's running) is going to be at the end of the round", then clearly the guard is his target and gets to dodge.
On the other hand, if you opponent is standing still or you want to throw the grenade into the middle of a group of guys, that's fine.

Since you don't get a dodge roll unless the grenade is thrown right at you, I don't think you can dodge into a grenade.

At any rate, dodging isn't necessarily your best defense against grenades. Since they take a whole IP to go off, you have time to move away from the grenade or get behind cover.

[Jaid]

unless they're airburst linked...

[Austere Emancipa...]

So are standard SR grenade launchers still modeled after Quake, and not after, say, actual grenade launchers? I was kind of expecting impact detonation to have been rediscovered since 2064.

[Jaid]

once again, airburst links.

[Austere Emancipa...]

So is every single HE grenade fired out of a SR4 grenade launcher airbursting? If not, could someone answer my question above?

[elbows]

Standard grenade launchers in SR use a timer rather than impact fuze. So yeah, more like Quake than actual grenade launchers.
The airburst link is an add-on, but it only costs 500 nuyen.

[Shadowmeet]

Although, I'd probably allow modification. Impact detonation could probably be modified by a runner with the proper skills.

[Teulisch]

the main purpose of gernades is to hit something with indirect fire. You do it to get your target out of cover, and where you can shoot him.

personaly, i prefer smoke and flashbang. they wont kill you if they go off while you carry em, and you dont need to be a great throw. and many times, all the enemy knows is you just tossed a gernade, not what kind of gernade.

[TheCrusader]

First of all ty for the replies :)

So if it is legal to shoot an airburst grenade right next to your target, wouldn't that be a solution for the insane spirit dodge (especially considering that future books will most likely reintroduce the IPE granades)?

Cheers
Crusader

[RunnerPaul]

[RunnerPaul]

[Austere Emancipa...]

w00t! SR4 has already met, like, 3 of my admittedly very high expectations.

[blakkie]

Ya, "scatter" in SR4 is only the bouncing around before explosion in the case of hand tossed grenades. For all "launched" instances, such as rockets, missles, and GLs it's more like you missed where you were aiming.

[Feshy]

[Siege]

[Demon_Bob]

[RunnerPaul]

I've been thinking about the way the grenade rules work, and I'm going to run a theory by y'all, and see what you think:

First off, the hits you get on your success test are doing two different things: reducing the scatter, and then upping the DV once the scatter has been reduced to zero. Does this mean that with a highly skilled throw, the force of the explosion is greater? I don't buy that for a second. Two identical grenades, thrown by tossers of different skill levels, should explode with the same force.

So where's the extra DV coming from? I think that extra DV is modelling the difference between a grenade that goes off 0m from the target, but had landed next to the target's feet, and a grenade that goes off 0m from the target, but is right up against the target's chest when it goes off. Both are bad days for the target, but the grenade that's closer to the target's center of mass and vital areas is going to be worse, even though they're both 0m.

With the above interpertation, you can see that the chummer standing next to the poor target 1m away will probably feel the same force of explosion whether the grenade's at the target's feet or right against the target's chest. Also, the blast radius should be the same, no matter how precise you are in landing the grenade next to your target's vital areas. So in other words, I think the extra DV is applied only to the actual target, and does not increase the radius of the blast.

With this interpertation, I can see a use for dodging: reducing any extra DV back down to the base damage you'd feel at 0m. However, even with a dodge, you're still pretty much standing at ground zero of the blast.