Could a mage use Control thoughts on himself?, What about Influence? Options

[Frag-o Delux]

At work today I dropped a 300 pound battery on one finger, and thought stop thinking about the pain and it will go away. I was on a very short dead line and had to get done quickly. Then I thought (while not trying to think about the pain) could a mage make himself ignore the pain with control thoughts or some other spell to replicate pain editors or the other pieace of cyberware I am currently drawing a blank on or the adept power? I haven't thought about it much but was reminded about it a minute ago when I hit that knuckle on my desk and it flared up again.

[ialdabaoth]

I'd allow it - I'd also work it just like a Pain Editor (see M&M), with all the inherent disadvantages thereof. That, plus the disadvantage of keeping the spell sustained, should just about balance out wound penalties, without making the idea too useless.

[Kanada Ten]

A health spell could help one ignore pain and could be cast on oneself. It would be sustained and look very similar to Treat or Heal with the added sustained modifier.

I wouldn't allow Control Thoughts or any manipulation spell ignore the effects of pain...
Though an illusion spell might do the trick (ha! pun).

[Frag-o Delux]

[John Campbell]

There's a Resist Pain spell in MitS that's specifically designed to accomplish what you're looking for.

[Foreigner]

Gentlemen and/or Ladies:
I haven't been playing SR all that long (completed my first PBEM 'run back in August), but it sounds like a self-inflicted form of the "Control Thoughts" spell would be a magical counterpart to self-hypnosis--and several years ago, I read about a young woman who was studying the principles thereof undergoing dental surgery (tooth reconstruction, I think--nothing as severe as a root-canal job, though) *WITHOUT ANESTHETIC* :eek: . (She asked the dentist if he'd permit it as a test of her self-hypnotic abilities--he agreed, but had the anesthesia machine and painkillers nearby just in case.)
Just a suggestion, mind you.

--Foreigner

[Frag-o Delux]

[Cochise]

I have no problem with mages being affected by their own control manipulations. But the result would IMHO be different from what has been discribed so far.

Casters are subject to the effects of their own spells (especially aera affect spells can be dangerous there). But what is the spell effect of a control manipulation?
It temporarily removes the free will of person and waits for a command / idea to be "implanted". That should lead to a self-lobotomized mage until he passes out, since he casts the spell, sustains it but automatically loses his free will at the same time and thus the possibility to give himself the appropriate command.

At least that's how I handle thought control and similar control manipulations


@ Frag: p. 194 SR3 .. Resist Pain

[TheScamp]

It's a time-travel type paradox. If the mage casts the spell, he forgets about the pain, but then how does he know what the sustained spell is for?

[Frag-o Delux]

With Influence though he would just give himself the command and carry it out with out any further thought of it and he would still act normal. At least that is how it works against other people that are targets of the spell. Then he would go about his deal ignoring the pain of the already sustained damage until he damaged again. But if the spell already exists then this is sort of moot, unless someone else can think of a reason to hypnotise themselves.

[John Campbell]

[Frag-o Delux]

That is a cool spell, I don't know how I missed all this time. In my defense I just started playing mages hard core with my latest character some I am still working out the bugs. I am also addicted to making spells. My GM almost dreads me when I show up to the game with my little notepad that has "My Spells" written on it.

[Glyph]

The Resist Pain spell is the way to go. Personally, I would not allow Influence or Control Thoughts, cast on self, to negate wound penalties. They don't allow the target to do so when cast on someone else, so why would they work for the caster? Sure, they can "negate" the effects of wounds in the sense of "Ignore that gaping chest wound and keep acting as my human shield," but they don't negate the actual Target Number penalties.


Here's another hypothetical use of control manipulations on self. Mage with Willpower of 6, who knows that the bad guys will be coming for him to extract certain information from him. First, he casts Influence on himself, telling himself to check in a certain hiding spot after the bad guys have left. In that hiding spot, he leaves a note which details the real information. Then, he casts Alter Memory on himself, at, say, Force: 1, using only 3 Sorcery dice (but he is a voluntary target). The bad guys come, get the false information from him, and leave. He is struck by a sudden compulsion to look under a loose floorboard in the closet, where he finds the note detailing the real information. Faced with the falseness of his altered memory, he gets to make another test, easily negating the 3 previous successes with a Willpower of 6 rolling against a Target Number of 1. Would this work?

[Frag-o Delux]

I think that is a good idea as long as the bad guys don't know you are a mage and/or don't bring along a mage for back up.

[Sphynx]

Yes a person could use Control Thoughts on himself, but no, he could not ignore pain from it. You can 'direct what a target does' and you can give commands that 'the target is compelled to obey', but you can't "erase", "change" or "manipulate" his memory or realization.

Best you could hope for is to convince yourself that the pain feels good (S&M). It wouldn't negate the pain, but it would make it bearable (though the intensity of the pleasure added to the intensity of the pain would keep the TN modifier the same).

Sphynx

[Zazen]

I don't think you could control someones thoughts in such a way that they have thoughts that the casting mage is incapable of having. I don't think a mage ignorant of literature could get his target to think about a passage from Shakespeare, for example. So if he doesn't already have mastery of his own mind when it comes to pain, he can't impart it to anyone else.

This is, of course, just my opinion.

[Frag-o Delux]

Last night I was watching a show called "More Than Human" on the Discovery Channel, and they were talking about ignoring pain. They were kicking a guy in his sack as hard as they could , punching each other in the throat, and a bunch of other things that would drop a normal person. These people were just letting the other person hit them ith no reactions. So why couldn't a mage make them selves ignore the pain.

[Zazen]

Probably the same reason they couldn't use it to instantly memorize a huge amount of material, do really complicated arithmetic without paper, and attain zen enlightenment. It's supposed to direct your thoughts, not grant new capabilities.

[Raptor1033]

Frag, that's called taking the pain resistance edge multiple times.