The "Wreck (Object)" spell, And Powerbolt in general as well Options

[Abschalten]

Alright, the "Wreck (Object)" spell is simply a Powerbolt with a limited target in order to reduce drain. I understand the concept of casting the spell and needing to hit the Object Resistance threshold in order to start getting some effect to the spell.

However, let's say you cast Force 4 Wreck Gun (OR is a 3). I want this gun to blow up in my enemy's hand. I cast it and cap it out at 4 successes. Since the DV isn't resisted, I start the spell off at DV 4, and the three additional successes amp it up to 7 damage.

My question is, how many boxes of physical health does a gun have? :eek:

Drones and vehicles are a little easier to figure out since they have a Body rating that you can use to figure out an effective damage track. But does a Ruger Super Warhawk have 10 Boxes? What is the "Body" rating of a gun?

I had difficulties figuring out the Wreck (Object) spell in SR3 for similar reasons, and this confusion carries over to SR4. I simply cannot find any rules to figure out how to reconcile how the spell works with assuredly destroying an object, or to what degree. Does anybody else have any perspective on this? If I cast a Powerbolt at a commlink, how much damage do I have to do to it before it stops working (even taking into consideration that there are sensitive electronics inside that could be easily fried)?

Any help figuring this out would be much appreciated.

[Aaron]

Treat it as a barrier and use the rules for breaking those. That's what I do.

[Slithery D]

Yeah, every physical object in SR4 is, by necessity, a barrier for breaking it purposes. Just assign it a Structure (boxes to destroy) and Armor (resistance dice) based on those given in the BBB.

[Abschalten]

What would you guys say a good Structure rating range would be for guns? Maybe 3 on the low end (for wimpy, plastic holdouts) and 7 on the high end (for assault cannons)? I'm trying to get a good idea of what numbers to expect, since I think a Wreck Gun spell could be a potential lifesaver in a run (I know the drain isn't that much different, but it's all about the style points. 8) )

[Slithery D]

SR4 pg. 157 has a table with common item Structure/Armor ratings. "Average material" like tree or furniture is rated 5/4. "Heavy Material" like dataterms and light posts are 7/6. I'd put a gun's structure rating in the 5-7 range (how much damage it can take). Adjust for size - light pistol 4-5, assault rifle/shotgun 7. (These may actually be high; I could see going down one on size grounds, but that might make it too easy to auto succeed with a Force 5 and no more hits than beating object resistance.)

Armor to resist damage should be the same or maybe higher (dense and tough), but that would only apply to indirect combat spells (acid or the like), not a powerbolt. You'd just need to beat the object threshold and have a high enough force + net successes to beat the structure.

[kzt]

There also a bit about how difficult it is to directly attack hi-tech stuff with magic? See the object resistance rating on page 174.

[Eryk the Red]

Maybe I'm looking at the ratings in a different light, but I would figure that Structure on a gun would be rather low. There's just not that much there to destroy. I'd figure that they'd probably have decent armor, though. Though I know Structure isn't simply a representation of physical mass, I'd figure it has to represent that on some level, or it would seem to me that structure and armor are representing the same idea, just using different game mechanics.

[Dread Polack]

I think the problem is that "damage" is pretty abstract, even in SR. A bullet might kill a person with a single shot to the heart, which might do little "damage" to the body. Hitting, and thus destroying a gun is the same thing. The gun is small, but tougher than a human body, so its total boxes of damage might be the same or even higher. A good roll might bend the barrel or knock some important piece loose, or several shots might only glance off the metal.

I'd give it a structure and body off the barrier table and adjust it to where I think it's reasonable.

Dread Polack

[Metasigil]

Actually, Eryk the Red, structure is a measure of mass in a sense. Structure is how much damage it take to destroy a square meter with a certian thickness (I can't remember it off hand) of the substance in question. So in essence, you average hand gun is probably going to have a structure rating of 1-3, a little more for rifle type weapons, and heavy weapons should probably have a structure maxing out at around 10, tops, for the Panther autocannon.

(Note: These are rough guestimates based on my vague memories of the barrier table. I could be completely off.)

[Backgammon]

Even if the gun isn't completely destroyed by the spell, I would definately give it's user a modifier for using the weapon. Same aswound modifiers: -1 die per [edit] 3 [/edit] boxes of damage.

[Metasigil]

Wound modifiers are -1 per 3 wounds.

[lorechaser]

Unless you have the right quality!

[2bit]

Instead of modifier to use the item, I would give it a gremlins rating, ie. user more likely to glitch. At some damage level, the GM should determine when the object is just broken. Electronics will cease being usable tools long before less complex machines.