Bringing 2020 to 2065, CP2020 conversion questions Options

[nezumi]

I am currently in the process of fleshing out the Shadowrun equipment list, drawing primarily on CP2020. I won't be able to include any of the file yet, because I'd like to present equipment in categories, which isn't possible since I'm going through one Chromebook at a time. However, I'll go ahead and start the thread so I can put my intro paragraph, ask questions, and leave myself open to comments. To begin with, my file opens with the following paragraph, which I still think sums everything up well:

Nezumi Hebereke's Cyberpunk 2020 to Shadowrun (SR3, SR3R) Equipment Conversion
Attempt 1

This conversion guide is not meant to be a "pure" nor a complete conversion from CP2020 to SR, as has been done successfully before. It is, however, intended to allow SR3 and SR3R players access to a wider range of options which a GM can allow knowing they are well-balanced and tested. You will find no object or device which is obviously "better" than its Shadowrun equivalent, however there are several additions which fulfill a specific role largely untouched in Shadowrun. Overall, equipment has only been included here when it adds flavor to the game without significantly changing game mechanics, or when it fills a niche Shadowrun has not sufficiently touched on. The majority of Cyberpunk 2020 equipment has not been listed as it is overly powerful, redundant, or does not apply to the Shadowrun world. Yes, if it can already be done with Shadowrun rules, it will not be included in this guide. In addition, there are several objects that have not previously appeared in any version of Shadowrun or Cyberpunk that are designed to specifically fill roles that exist in Shadowrun but not Cyberpunk, and a few objects that have recently arrived with Shadowrun 4. There should not be anything which contradicts Shadowrun Canon, fulfills the same results as an existing product, or completely outshines another Shadowrun product. As always, the GM's word is final, and GMs are encouraged to examine the list before allowing it into his game.



So I am not going to be importing 90% of the cyberware, 95% of the firearms or 98% of the vehicles, as they are all overpowered, redundant, or inappropriate for the shadowrun universe. Hopefully this will make it easier for GMs to review the equipment, accept it as balanced, and integrate it into their games. Obviously, there are no plans for new magical spells or powers at this time. While I post things, I am very open not only to comments about CP2020 and SR4 additions, but to suggestions on what else needs to be included (so far I've added the unmanned tripod "drone" and a troll-killing handgun, which has been suggested elsewhere, and a few other things of my own devising).

[nezumi]

There are three aspects of CP2020 that I am debating whether I should include.

1) Personafix analogs. CP2020 skill chips are oftentimes linked to a particular role or character, so for instance there's a "secret agent" chip which would have etiquette, stealth and interrogation skills (or something like that), basically skillwire bundles. However, these bundles also include some alterations to the personality of the user. The user will become a little more Bondish. A police chip will include police procedure, law and squashing rights skills, but the character would also begin to unconsciously act more like a police officer.

These chips are difficult to port over for two reasons. Firstly, they draw on personafix chips, but do not completely embody them. I can't very well have a half-personafix! Secondly, they bundle skills, which oftentimes makes them less useful than just the individual skill chips. I'm considering saying they're recorded differently, decreasing the memory cost of the chips, but giving the unusual side effect of personality changes, but I'm not quite sure yet how to approach the matter. Are there any suggestions?

2) Borgs conversions. CP2020 allows a person to implant his brain into a fully cybernetic body, called a borg. The primary limiting factors on this are price, and the possibility of dying during the procedure. I love the idea of doing a full cyber-body, but I realize that my personal interests may make them dangerous unbalanced. I will tackle the issue soon, but as I work through it, again, I was wondering if people had any suggestions or thoughts.

3) The ramjet rifle. This is a much simpler question, really. Chromebook 2 includes a "ramjet rifle", the 'bullet' is a solid-state rocket that increases in speed as it goes along, which means it has higher inertia when it impacts the target than when it first left the muzzle. I think this is a very cool idea, and would probably have it start at 5S and go up by +1 power per range category, but I really don't know how technically feasible it would be. Given this is future technology, would a ramjet bullet projectile thing be feasible, or is it just too out there to include?

[Sir_Psycho]

I'm pretty sure a heavy pistol is an adequate troll-killer.

The ramjet rifle sounds awesome. I will add, that even at extreme range, the ramjet rifle starting at 5S won't be able to clock up enough to surpass other sniper rifles, being 8S at extreme, while the weakest of the sniper rifles are 14S across the board.

Also it would be cool if we had additional ammunition for it that could self-correct mid-flight, making it harder to dodge or something of the like.

[Nyxll]

Gurth a few years ago did chrome book conversions right from vol 1 to 4.
http://plastic.dumpshock.com/shadowrun/chr...onversions.html

[cetiah]

[nezumi]

Cetiah, you rock, thanks! I guess that's a thumbs up.

Nyxll, thanks for the link, although I've been referencing that document to help temper my own work. The different is Plastic Warriors tried to do a true conversion, with all the imbalances, flaws, and odd technology. I am in no way attempting to do a true conversion, I am choosing only equipment which fills a role not currently filled in Shadowrun, and I am altering the stats to maintain balance, so by the time a CP2020 item gets into my document, it is only from CP2020 in inspiration. Hopefully this means what I produce will be more commonly used, and more easily accepted, as it won't break the game in the process.

[Nyxll]

That's awesome Nezumi, I am looking forward to checking them out. There is some stuff in there that should be just turfed. I really hope that you don't get discouraged. That is something I want.

[cetiah]

I've never played 2020 and I don't really know what a ramjet is or what it's supposed to be. But I have this big book of weapons design from an old version of Traveller and I've been itching to try out for Shadowrun. I figure this is the perfect time:

RAMJET RIFLE

Traveller TNE statistics:

Ammunition stats:
TL-13 Rocket-Assisted Multi-purpose Grenade
Kinetic Energy Armor Piercing Warhead
Armor Piercing Discarding Sabot
3cm Diameter
Damage Value: 7
Burst: None
Warhead Mass: 0.24kg ( < 0.5 lbs)
Price per 10 rounds: 36 credits

Weapon stats:
TL-13 Grenade Launcher
w/folding stock
Semi-automatic
Ammo: 10(m)
Barrel Length: 8 calibers
Direct Fire Short Range: 228.75m (741 feet)
Total Weapon Length w/stock folded: 59cm (~23 inches)
Total Weapon Length w/stock unfolded: 79 cm (~31 inches)
Bulk: 5
Recoil Modifier: 0.9
Empty Mass: 3.6kg (~8 lbs)
Loaded Mass: 6.24kg (~14 lbs)
Muzzle Energy: 675 joules
Recoil: 1.33
Price: ?

Combined stats:
Penetration Rating: 0.025



Converting to Shadowrun statistics:

Name: Ramjet Rifle
Damage: 7
AP: 0
Mode: SA
RC: (1)
Ammo: 10( c)
Skill: Longarms
Short Range: 0-700
Medium Range: 701-1500
Long Range: 1501-3200
Extreme Range: 3201-6000

[Darkwalker]

[Darkwalker]

[nezumi]

Darkwalker summed it up well. Basically, a ramjet requires a certain initial speed before it begins working (since it needs the incoming air to be compressed in order to heat it). Once it hits that initial speed, the ramjet actually begins producing thrust on its own. Because it's sort of half a jet compared to our modern jet aircraft, it's smaller and cheaper to build. So a Ramjet rifle would shoot a small, solid state ramjet. The initial projectile would be propelled out of the rifle, probably similar to how a normal bullet is. Once it hits the minimum speed, it begins accelerating under its own power, consuming the solid fuel as it goes. I imagine the ammunition would look something like a model rocket engine with a firing cap on.

I hadn't gotten to checking more on the gyrojet than what little was on the wiki page, but it sounds like they are different technologies. I wonder how much of that was intentional. Regardless, I think an actual ramjet would probably work differently than the gyrojet listed, but I'll have to spend some time working everything out.

[Pendaric]

Ah how i loved my ramjet rifle in CP. I'd give this a thumbs up as it is a sota advancement on a real world design.

As to Borgs in SR my take is NO!
Cyberzombies is a far as you can go for cyber and I think that works fine due to the existence of essence as a concept/rule in SR.
With riggers being able to use anthroform drones a full borg seems just to sci fi for SR reality.

P fix chips already come with skill bundles dont they?

[nezumi]

[nezumi]

I'm going to include two custom guns for review. Please, give comments (please please). I'm looking to offer balance and color over realism, but realism is awfully nice too.

[ Spoiler ]

Colt Warthog
A handgun only slightly less ugly than the targets its meant to kill, the Warthog uses an unusual revolver "bullpup" design, putting the five round cylinder behind the grip, giving it an almost ray-gun appearance. However, the unusual configuration is required in order to house the LMG rounds the Warthog fires. In an age where trolls walk freely, weapons like the L36 are no longer sufficiently powered to serve the role they were designed for. The Warthog has been built around existing technologies, without which the recoil would make it too powerful to sit in such a small package.

Buyers are required to sign the attached Limited Liability Waiver and are recommended to purchase all appropriate safety equipment.

The Warthog comes with a built in Smartlink-2 and is built to synch up with a cyberarm. When fired without the support of a cyberarm or the equivalent of 4 points of recoil compensation, the shooter must resist a 4M wound to his shooting arm (armor does not reduce the power of this attack). This weapon is considered a Very Heavy Pistol. It has the range and available slots of a Heavy Pistol, but Light Machine Gun ammunition.


Very Heavy Pistol Conceal Ammo Mode Damage Wt. Avail. Cost SI Legal
Colt Warthog 4 5(cy) SS 12M 4 6/3 days 1,800¥ 2 6P-E

Tsunami Arms Ramjet Rifle
Harnessing the power of a jet engine, the Ramjet rifle offers unmatched sniper and anti-vehicular performance. Rather than conventional bullets, the Ramjet rifle uses self-propelled ammunition. The rifle may be loaded either with a solid-state rocket, or a solid-state, two-stage ramjet with a solid-state rocket booster. Either ammunition type is a cylinder, four centimeters in diameter seven long, with a small firing pin mounted in the front. The ramjet is a hollow cylinder, with the starter rocket as a core. Both of them rely on the rocket initially, and do not depend on conventional firing cap technology. When fired, the rocket ignites, gathering up speed as it travels down the vented barrel. This gun never suffers recoil, and is far quieter than a standard gun. Upon leaving the barrel, or in the case of a jam, the rocket does not have enough speed to cause serious damage, and will not cause burns to the skin, making it exceptionally safe to the shooter. Because both ammunition types are self-propelled and vented, they do not suffer as severely from drop as standard bullets, making them far more precise and dangerous at longer ranges, and greatly reducing the necessary weight of the weapon.

If using the single-stage rocket, the rocket continues to gain speed until approximately 100 meters, causing an average of 5S damage (starting at 0 power at point blank, and increasing by 1 every 10 meters). After that point it does 10S damage. It uses Medium Machine Gun ranges (SR3 p. 111). The rocket never breaks the speed of sound, and so is a silenced gunshot for the purposes of perception tests (and rarely identified as weapon fire at all because of its unusual sound). The rocket can be effectively fired underwater with no significant loss in effectiveness. The two-stage ramjet starts similarly to the rocket, but at 20 meters the rocket is largely expended. At this point, the speed is sufficient for the ramjet to begin functioning, accelerating the projectile far faster than the single rocket stage. It continues accelerating until 160 meters, reaching its maximum damage of 16S. It uses Assault Cannon ranges. If the projectile passes beyond Short range, it breaks Mach 1 and the recognizable crack sound of a gun firing is heard (however, cannot be traced back to the shooter). This sound cannot be silenced, it is a function of the speed of the ammunition. The ramjet stage requires oxygen and sufficient speed to function.

This weapon never suffers recoil, but cannot mount any barrel accessories. It can only fire its own, specialized ammunition. It uses the Rifle skill. It takes a Simple Action to reload a single round in the weapon.


Conceal Ammo Mode Damage Wt. Avail. Cost SI Legal
Ramjet Rifle - 8 SA Special 5 16/2 mnths 25,000¥ 4 4P-H
Rocket ammo (per 10) 8 - - 0-10S 1 14/1 mnth 2,000¥ 3 6P-H
Ramjet ammo (per 10) 8 - - 0-16S 1 16/1 mnth 3,500¥ 4 6P-H

[cetiah]

edit: removed (double-posted)

[cetiah]

[cetiah]

[Thane36425]

GURPS has several gyrojet weapons in the different future games. Going from memory, the are .75 caliber (about the bore of a Revolutionary War musket) and had varying ranged based on the type of weapon, meaning pistol or rifle, and the type of ammo. They all also had a minimum range of many yards before they were fast enough to be effective. Most were kenetic energy rounds, but some were explosive of chemical.

I could see them being used at an anti-armored personel weapon. A .75 caliber round with either a shaped charge or squash head warhead could really ruin a man in security or military grade armor's day. The weapon would also be light enough to run around with easily, unlike a .50 Barret or the like.

[nezumi]

[cetiah]

[Pendaric]

No problems with either of those guns Nezumi. Like them both. Though I feel the Warthog will be use by trolls not against them ;)
Might want to change the ramjet rifle's name to avoid copyright though.

[Darkwalker]

A few things:

A RAM grenade is NOT identical to a Ramjet. Actually they have absolutely NOTHING in common. A RAM has at best a short booster stage attached to a classical 40mm Grenade or a Rifle Grenade. It is NOT self powered until impact. A RAMJET is an air-breathing jet engine that works without the compressor system. RAMJET bullets are self powered until impact. They can use propellants without internal oxygen. This is a short overview

TNE's Fire Fuzion and Steel is nice but it does not produce the same values as CP and it is known to produce unrealistic results (Try building a modern day tank, it ends at 230+ tons). The system is build to work with Traveller, not to produce real-life compatibel weapons. Take a look at 5.56N vs. 7.62N under the system for damage/range and compare to real life

I hope you use all erata for FFS. The weapon design sequences where known buggy in the original and even in second print

Gyrojet rounds for a RL pistol are about the same damage value as real pistols once they get to speed. They where unguided rounds that played the "no recoil" card, caliber was 13mm and short range bullet energy was extremly low (could be stopped by cardboard at the muzzel). At longer ranges the bullet energy was up to 50 percent higher than a .45ACP in army load. GURPS Gyrocs are bigger to use heavier warloads (some are explosive) and to get a guidance system in at the higher TL rounds (I.e Viper)

[cetiah]

[nezumi]

[cetiah]