 Metavariants and Changelings, SR4 or No? |
 Jul 27 2007, 06:42 AM
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#1
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Immortal Elf  Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890  |
I've been browsing through Augmentation on and off tonight and noticed several references to metavariants and SURGE changelings.
Which had me wondering: Has there been anything "official" in SR4 regarding either of these character options yet? Or perhaps something officially announced about them being featured in an upcoming product? I've only seen the occasional reference, but that's about it. |
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Jul 27 2007, 06:48 AM
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#2
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
I believe it's slated for the SR4 Player's Guide (like an SR4 version of the Shadowrun Companion). I believe this because developers have said that is where it goes.
There was some discussion of throwing some SURGE stuff in the genetics section of Augmentation, but that was shelved for the Player's Guide. Presumably it'll be put in there. -Frank |
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Jul 27 2007, 06:52 AM
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#3
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
Much obliged. :) Is there a release schedule somewhere?
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Jul 27 2007, 07:23 AM
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#4
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
not by the looks of it. its not even listen under upcoming books over on srrpg.com...
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Jul 27 2007, 07:26 AM
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#5
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
I am officially a sad panda then.
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Jul 27 2007, 07:29 AM
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#6
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
i know the feel. i had someone sound interesting when i told them about night-ones. and while i could wing some rules and stats for them, it would be nice to have the official take.
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Jul 27 2007, 07:40 AM
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#7
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
My naked dual mono-whip ninja pirate puss... ehh, catgirls, yes catgirls are sad too.
Canon would be nice. I like mine ahem... I mean my rules, RAW. :D |
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Jul 27 2007, 08:01 AM
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#8
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,314 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lisbon, Cidade do Pecado Member No.: 185 |
Runners Companion (working title) is tentatively on the schedule for sometime next year - the book will likely include the various metavariants, changelings and rules for playing "off-beat" characters (like shifters and ghouls).
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Jul 27 2007, 02:17 PM
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#9
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,219 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lofwyr's stomach. Member No.: 1,320 |
please, PLEASE roll metavariants into surge. Please. Maybe as a package of traits. Just to clean the rules up a bit.
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Jul 27 2007, 03:59 PM
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#10
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 232 Joined: 19-October 04 Member No.: 6,773 |
I would kill for HMHVV PC rules. or maybe even a whole book on HMHVV. So, uhh, put them in there and I'll kill some one for you =) EDIT: Also sasquatches, centaurs, pixies, other sentient races, uhh, maybe some stone people or lizard men if you get my drift. |
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Jul 27 2007, 04:05 PM
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#11
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ghostrider Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,196 Joined: 16-May 04 Member No.: 6,333 |
Eh, I'll just be ignoring the silly metavariants even if they do pop up. There's enough Tolkien in SR already, IMO.
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Jul 27 2007, 06:49 PM
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#12
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
it would be oh so nice, sadly one may think, if SR robbed the idea of D&D where one have basic info about how to play any known "monster" that shows up in a book...
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Jul 27 2007, 06:58 PM
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#13
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,241 Joined: 10-August 02 Member No.: 3,083 |
Just what we needed: Devil Rat Shadowrunners. |
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Jul 27 2007, 07:10 PM
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#14
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,219 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lofwyr's stomach. Member No.: 1,320 |
Hey, you didn't notice the part about bio-drones in augmentation, did you? And the part about Jar-heads? It is only a matter of time until someone puts a jarhead into a biodrone, and we have full species-switching.
Also, nothing really stops you from making humaniod bio-drones, that I could see. |
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Jul 27 2007, 07:26 PM
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#15
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
hey, they seems to be able to outsmart some runners... |
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Jul 27 2007, 07:27 PM
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#16
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ghostrider Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,196 Joined: 16-May 04 Member No.: 6,333 |
This board needs a pukey smiley. |
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Jul 27 2007, 07:33 PM
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#17
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
well there us always these:
:dead: :beret: :noflame: |
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Jul 27 2007, 07:34 PM
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#18
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 633 Joined: 23-February 06 Member No.: 8,301 |
Actually I wouldn't mind some rules for playing sasquatches or any of the other sentient critters. If only because it would provide a workable framework for developing NPCs of those species. Not every dwarf has the same Body, neither does every sasquatch. Besides, depending on the flavor of your campaign, a sasquatch could be a good time.
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Jul 27 2007, 07:37 PM
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#19
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
The D&D Level Adjustment rules are completely non-functional, and copying them would be a shit idea. But the idea of attaching player information to humanoid critters in the write-up wouldn't be a bad thing. There's no particular reason why a ghoul, a fleshform ant spirit, or a blackberry cat couldn't be a runner. Indeed, considering the legal status of those sapient critters it is difficult to imagine them doing anything else. The thing is, I don't want to play a watered down ghoul if I play a ghoul. Ghouls already show up in groups of six to twelve and get gunned down in groups of six to twelve by player characters. If I play a ghoul, I should play an actual ghoul with appropriate abilities. And making a chargen system of any kind that'll generate a blackberry cat is non-trivial. -Frank |
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Jul 27 2007, 07:40 PM
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#20
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,206 Joined: 9-July 06 From: Fresno, CA Member No.: 8,856 |
Aren't you already busy ignoring all of SR4 anyway? :wobble: |
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Jul 27 2007, 09:32 PM
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#21
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ghostrider Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,196 Joined: 16-May 04 Member No.: 6,333 |
Nope. Just ordered print copies of each book this morning.
The general path went: [ Spoiler ] The sig would be different, but the WSOD prevents my altering it at the moment. |
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Jul 27 2007, 09:37 PM
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#22
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
One thing I desperately hope they avoid in the new rules is adding a BP penalty for the "rarity" of an optional race. That includes but is not limited to requiring Positive Qualities.
BPs are there to create balanced characters, not to dissuade people from choosing things simply because they're supposed to be rare. Rarity is handled in the gameworld and it should be up to GMs to say if optional races are permitted or not on a case by case basis. |
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Jul 27 2007, 10:30 PM
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#23
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
Rarity of metatype is an inherent disadvantage. If anything, it should be paying you points because you get to stand in shorter police line-ups.
-Frank |
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Jul 27 2007, 10:36 PM
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#24
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
That I wouldn't mind at all as it's a tangible disadvantage of being one. I'm talking about how, for example, in SR3 it cost an extra 5 BP (closer to about 15 or so BP in SR4) just to be a Metavariant, complete with all the roleplaying hardships that it entailed.
That's the sort of thing I don't want to see. Also having each metavariant looked at again based upon their type and description would be nice. Some were really odd, like low-Charisma Satyrs (which make more sense as an Elf variant to me anyway) or Dryads who were nearly unplayable as a standard shadowrunner. But yeah, extra cost just to simulate "rarity" would be a major :( moment for me. Especially since SR4 seems to have been avoiding that past trend so far. |
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Jul 27 2007, 11:00 PM
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#25
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
Pricing is a difficult thing in RPG design because it doesn't directly correspond to the standard pricing in capitalist markets that we are all familiar with. The goal is not to maximize the price that will nonetheless sell the most units - the goal is actually to get everyone to get what they pay for. Thus, it is more analagous to pricing in a paternalistic command economy. SR3 had a number of pricing schemes based on the erroneous idea that everything was supposed to "sell". So Dwarfs got their price ratcheted down while Variants got their price cranked up. In order to get everything sold, SR3 ended up charging people less points to be a Dwarf than the raw attribute bonuses you got. Taking any human character and writing "Dwarf" on the race line actually paid you 3 BP (about 10 BP in SR4) with no real drawback. This is the sort of logic that ended up with D&D having Clerics who can out-fight fighters, and druids who can out-blast wizards. If I have any say about it at all, that won't happen in SR4. ---
I really hope that the Metavariants and SURGE don't get a straight port. I genuinely think that we can throw down some unifying themes to put those things in the new edition in a usable and clear fashion. We cut the scores of spirit types in SR3 down to ten, we lowered the different rules entries for possession from about 10 to two - and I think that we can perhaps manage make a newer version of SURGE where you don't have to look in different places for claws and horns. And while some of the Metavariants are rather simple to explain: Muppet Elves have a 2/7 Reaction in addition to a 2/7 Agility; others really need to be scrutinized hard. Should Gnomes seriously have a Strength bonus? Should Satyrs have a reduced Charisma cap? Very roughly, I think the following metatypes did what they were supposed to in the original 2nd edition Shadowrun Companion (and by extension: the 3rd edition version):
Major changes to any of the others in the game mechanics department would sit well with me. -Frank |
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