Armor and Encumbrance Options

[i101]

[Ravor]

Personally I like the fact that they done away with stacking armor although it took som getting used to at first.

However with that said, as long as you've got the stats for it, it is still a good idea to wear multiple layers of armor, that way if you have to take your lined coat off for whatever reason you at least still have something.

[FriendoftheDork]

I didn't have a problem with this, as I never liked the armor stacking in previous editions anyway. A big good armor already consist of stacking various layers of material anyway, designed for maximim protection at minimal encumbrance. Stacking more should result in additional encumbrance and not be worth it.

And a good armor like security armor or even armor jacket should be better than armor vest+lined coat anyway.

In any case, armor is already very cumbersome in this game, so I can't see why anyone but trolls and orks with lots of body wants to wear more.

[Kyoto Kid]

...everytime I think of the concept of armour layering, the vision comes to mind of the little kid wrapped up with so many layers of winter clothes by his overprotective mom that he can barely move.

[Ryu]

If you have different kinds of armor, there might be great advantage to wearing two amors specialising in different armor ratings. Arsenal has quite a bit more armor types.

[bibliophile20]

[Shrike30]

Form-Fitting Body Armor (from Arsenal) *does* stack with whatever you're wearing over it, and when you throw an Armored Jacket over a full suit of it, you're in the Military Armor range for protection, at least against stuff that uses Ballistic. I'm not sure stacking it that way was such a good idea, honestly... maybe it should add half it's rating?

People who want to "stack" armor items when I'm GM'ing can usually come up with an arguement for the armor being close to something else. An armored jacket and camo suit pants, for example, might get specs more representative of an ad hoc "full body armor" suit, to represent the increased coverage, albeit without some of the perks of FBA like being able to be chemically sealed.

[Riley37]

[kzt]

They were idiots, who didn't run when the running was good. If they had driven away after suppressing the cops they would have probably been able to get away. Instead they decided to stay and shoot it out. Eventually enough cops showed up with enough guns. . .

[Siege]

The responding officers had 9mm handguns and shotguns.

Neither of which are especially effective against targets wrapped in heavy armor, armed with AKs.

The only surprising thing is the lack of fatalities among responding LE units.

I don't recall a technical review of the type of armor the two were wearing.

-Siege

[kzt]

[Siege]

[Siege]

[Jack Kain]

You might want to be able to just throw your armor jacket over your Auctioneer Suit.
Doesn't helmets and shields also count under this.
Couldn't your body 4 samurai go over budget by wearing the armor jacket with riot shield and helmet?

[kzt]

[lunchbox311]

They just did not have enough body and were suffering from encumbrance.
Probably a body of 3 or so with 10/8 armor. :D

[Riley37]

[Whipstitch]

[i101]

I decided that i will allow a 2nd layer of armor for my group. The 2nd layer counts only half. There were and will be situations where the PC had to take their armor jackets and coats of. A 2nd layer of armored cloth or a west seems fair enough.

[Teulisch]

one of the most logical choices in layering that has no game advantage, if you get dressed in armored clothing, then throw on your choice of lined coat or armored jacket. so if you take your jacket off (which society or the temperature may require) you wont be 'naked' with no armor.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

The problem with the 'no layering' rule is that it makes layerable armor insanely good - while being silly at the same time: Someone wearing a armored vest over a survival suit is significantly better protected than someone wearing not... the question is 'how much'.

And there still is no ruling how AltSkin factores in.

[ElFenrir]

One thing i LIKED about armor stacking...it made sense. A slimline vest under a jacket was a bit more protection. Now, keep in mind...im far from the expert on body armor. But isn't layering more armor indeed more protective? Of course, with the disadvantage of decreased mobility(which was shown with the Quickness and Combat Pool Penalty). I sorta recall the old gyro-mount...added armor, took off a LOT of recoil...but halved the combat pool.

It did get to the point that layering armor just wasn't worth it...if someone with, say, a 5 Quickness in the old game layered an Armor Vest with Plates underneath an Armored Jacket, with Form-Fitting Body Armor underneath THAT...they took such a penalty that their combat pool was reduced to the point of it being useless. (I think someone with quickness 5 and those three were somethign like 5+4+4=13 points of ballistic, only which counted 9(since the 4's were halved). 13-5=8, and they lost four dice from their combat pool. Someone with a 6 or 7...it wasn't worth it...since those four dice could add to defense, anyway.

Now, i was against turning someone into the Stay-Puff Marshmallow Troll, but i never saw the problem with the whole ''clothing under jacket'' ''vest under jacket'' or ''form-fitting body armor under jacket''. A simple vest under the jacket only gave an extra point.

However, i admit, in SR4, since the armor is so freaking strong anyway, there isn't too much need to layer anymore. The form-fitting giving an extra bonus, though, well, to me, makes sense. So im kinda glad that's in. Just so long as it doesn't go too overboard.

[Moon-Hawk]

Well, I admit I haven't had enough time to look much at any of the customization rules in Arsenal yet, but:

One option for the armor-jacket-over-armored-clothes thing is to just say that you can wear both, they don't stack for armor, they don't stack for encumbrance, when you're wearing both you use the jacket for all intents and purposes, but if you lose the jacket you still have something left.

But in a lot of cases you should be able to add more armor for more protection.

Now, between the Tweaking the Rules for armor in Arsenal, the new armors, especially that one line of arm pads and belly guards that stacks with all armor, I really have to reserve any opinion/bitching about armor until I've had time to absorb all the new stuff.

[Whipstitch]

My argument against armor layering is that it's fiddly and doesn't really lead to many meaningful decisions being made; it's functionally not very different from just wearing a more effective suit in the first place. I really don't see why people don't just start calling whatever goofy ass armor setup they cook up to be an "armored jacket equivalent" or whatever is appropriate and have the GM charge a bit extra for the right to only lose a portion of your armor when someone say, removes your jacket.

[kzt]

It's also somewhat counter-reality. Two layers of armor isn't typically nearly as effective as a single thicker layer. And if a bullet isn't significantly slowed down by passing through your jacket, wearing 10 jackets won't stop bullets as effectively as wearing 2 inches of steel plate, and allowing the players to do that is silly. The most extreme example I can think of is if you say that a piece of paper will stop 1 point of damage, then logically I should make my tanks out of reams of paper, because that would give them 500 points of armor.