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PalaNolho
post Apr 20 2008, 07:56 PM
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Greetings everyone.

I would like to ask some questions since im new to Shadowrun setting and system and to the GMing buisness. So.. here it goes:

Summoning:
- in a combat situation, a player summons as spirit and get 3 net hits (so it has 3 services). When he rolls to resist the spell DV, his stun tracker reaches 0. So he is unconscious and fall down. Down the summon apear (on astal or material plane?)? does the summon execute any service? If the caster just get unconscious later, does the spirit finish the service? what does it do after he finish the service and the player is still down? and if the team members carry the body away to a safe place?
- when a spirit is summoned, how many CM boxes does it has?
- a spirit is doing and Elemental Attack ( ranged attack that gives elemental damage ). He roll a glitch. what effect coult it have?

NPCs in Combat:
- i was running the "On The Run" starting adventure and i reach a point where i had alot of NPCs in the same combat ( like 15 or so) plus 5 players. I got nuts trying to handle all the NPCs and i got really lost on this matter. How do you usualy do:
- - do you apply the wound modifiers to the NPCs actions and Init. too?
- - how do you usually handle combat between NPCs?
- - any tip to make this easyer?

Movement in Combat:
- the movement rate is the same for all Combat Turn, so, how should i handle a players that has 3 IP and on the first one declares a running and goes to a location and do something, and on the next IP stays on tha same place doing something too?

Ressuscitation and Clones:
- anyone know it is it possible, how that can it be done and how does it work? (when charecter reaches damage overflow or passes the maximum overflow)

Combat Handling:
- Since the rules dont state nothing related to "how to use map grids".. and so one ( because of the general use of movement on SR), i would like to know if anyone has been using maps and hex or square grids to draw the places wherethe characters are and to handle combat movement, to help to visualize things. (i think it may be easyer for me this way because its easyer to handle distances and so on)


Its all for now .. i think lol

Thanks in advance.
(note: im from Portugal, in case there is any Portuguese arround... )
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Aaron
post Apr 20 2008, 08:23 PM
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QUOTE (PalaNolho @ Apr 20 2008, 01:56 PM) *
- in a combat situation, a player summons as spirit and get 3 net hits (so it has 3 services). When he rolls to resist the spell DV, his stun tracker reaches 0. So he is unconscious and fall down. Down the summon apear (on astal or material plane?)? does the summon execute any service? If the caster just get unconscious later, does the spirit finish the service? what does it do after he finish the service and the player is still down? and if the team members carry the body away to a safe place?

I believe the correct interpretation is that the spirit becomes uncontrolled and the summoner passes out before he gets a chance to give any orders. I also believe that summoned spirits appear on the astral.

QUOTE
- when a spirit is summoned, how many CM boxes does it has?

As it appears in the astral, it would have 8 + F/2.

QUOTE
- a spirit is doing and Elemental Attack ( ranged attack that gives elemental damage ). He roll a glitch. what effect coult it have?

That's up to you, but it would be bad for the spirit and its allies (or at least make their lives more complicated).

QUOTE
- i was running the "On The Run" starting adventure and i reach a point where i had alot of NPCs in the same combat ( like 15 or so) plus 5 players. I got nuts trying to handle all the NPCs and i got really lost on this matter. How do you usualy do:
- - do you apply the wound modifiers to the NPCs actions and Init. too?

Me? Actions yes, initiative no. I usually let the bad guys all use the same initiative, which is the best Initiative rating among them, and then use individual IPs.

QUOTE
- - how do you usually handle combat between NPCs?

The same way I handle it between PCs and NPCs. Or, if the battle isn't going to impact what the PCs are doing, I just narrate it.

QUOTE
- - any tip to make this easyer?

Sure. What I do is put the CM max on a line for each NPC. Then when marking damage, I make hash marks after that number in the shape of triangles. So the first one is like a /, the second is like a _, and the third is like a \, making a triangle which kind of looks like /\. Then every triangle is a -1 dice pool penalty. Pain Tolerance is done with vertical marks. So an encounter might look like:
  • Henchmen:
  • 10: /\ /\ / [This guy's taken seven damage.]
  • 10: /\ / [This one's taken five damage.]
  • Boss:
  • 12/2: || /\ /\ [The boss has Pain Tolerance 2 and has taken eight damage total.]

QUOTE
- the movement rate is the same for all Combat Turn, so, how should i handle a players that has 3 IP and on the first one declares a running and goes to a location and do something, and on the next IP stays on tha same place doing something too?

Create a movement rate per IP. For example, a walking movement rate of 10m and 3 IPs might move 4m for one IP and 3m for the other two.

QUOTE
- anyone know it is it possible, how that can it be done and how does it work? (when charecter reaches damage overflow or passes the maximum overflow)

Page 160, Street Magic. Dead is dead.

QUOTE
- Since the rules dont state nothing related to "how to use map grids".. and so one ( because of the general use of movement on SR), i would like to know if anyone has been using maps and hex or square grids to draw the places wherethe characters are and to handle combat movement, to help to visualize things. (i think it may be easyer for me this way because its easyer to handle distances and so on)

Some do, some don't. It's been sufficient for us to draw on the white board and for me to say "it's twelve meters from here to here."

QUOTE
(note: im from Portugal, in case there is any Portuguese arround... )

I'm mostly Portuguese, but I was born in Illinois. Desculpe.
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Triggerz
post Apr 20 2008, 09:04 PM
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QUOTE (Aaron @ Apr 20 2008, 04:23 PM) *
Sure. What I do is put the CM max on a line for each NPC. Then when marking damage, I make hash marks after that number in the shape of triangles. So the first one is like a /, the second is like a _, and the third is like a \, making a triangle which kind of looks like /\. Then every triangle is a -1 dice pool penalty. Pain Tolerance is done with vertical marks. So an encounter might look like:
  • Henchmen:
  • 10: /\ /\ / [This guy's taken seven damage.]
  • 10: /\ / [This one's taken five damage.]
  • Boss:
  • 12/2: || /\ /\ [The boss has Pain Tolerance 2 and has taken eight damage total.]


Great stuff! I'll make sure to use that if I end up GMing our group (as is likely to happen, I think).
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Tarantula
post Apr 20 2008, 09:12 PM
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Actually, on the glitch, the spirit still succeeds on its attack, it just also has a negative effect along with it. (Examples of glitches are things like shooting but also ejecting your clip, or succeeding in a jump but landing on some nails and taking some damage). So, for a spirit using elemental attack, I'd maybe say something like either the spirit takes some of the damage also, or the spirit burns itself out, and can't use the elemental attack again until it spends a complex action "recharging".
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Kithran
post Apr 20 2008, 09:15 PM
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QUOTE (Tarantula @ Apr 20 2008, 10:12 PM) *
Actually, on the glitch, the spirit still succeeds on its attack, it just also has a negative effect along with it. (Examples of glitches are things like shooting but also ejecting your clip, or succeeding in a jump but landing on some nails and taking some damage). So, for a spirit using elemental attack, I'd maybe say something like either the spirit takes some of the damage also, or the spirit burns itself out, and can't use the elemental attack again until it spends a complex action "recharging".


I presume you could have the elemental attack causing a fire - the more glitches the closer to where the party are and the further from the target.

Kithran
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Fortune
post Apr 20 2008, 11:08 PM
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QUOTE (PalaNolho @ Apr 21 2008, 05:56 AM) *
... im from Portugal ...


So is Shadowrun's new Line Developer. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Welcome to Dumpshock. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Synner
post Apr 21 2008, 01:19 PM
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And here I thought I was the last Shadowrun GM still running around in Portugal...
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Shiloh
post Apr 21 2008, 03:19 PM
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QUOTE (Kithran @ Apr 20 2008, 10:15 PM) *
I presume you could have the elemental attack causing a fire - the more glitches the closer to where the party are and the further from the target.


Or setting off the sprinklers or knocking something over that might impede either side, or making a big cloud of smoke, or triggering an autoclose door, or frying a circuit so the door *won't* autoclose.

Anything really, so long as it's an "unintended consequence" and isn't too major. You can play it for laughs, even. A water elemental might just accidentally drench a teammate.
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Fortune
post Apr 21 2008, 03:46 PM
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QUOTE (Synner @ Apr 21 2008, 11:19 PM) *
And here I thought I was the last Shadowrun GM still running around in Portugal...


I thought you were in England now. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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Aaron
post Apr 21 2008, 06:01 PM
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QUOTE (Fortune @ Apr 21 2008, 09:46 AM) *
I thought you were in England now. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I think he's staying in Portugal; he seems to have developed a taste for good food. =ib
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PalaNolho
post Apr 21 2008, 06:10 PM
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You can add a "taste for good weather" too (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)
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PalaNolho
post Apr 23 2008, 10:15 AM
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Another Question:
- on Character creation, whats the MAX availability for gear? the playes can buy ANY peace of equipment or is there any Availadility cap?
(i know that cyberware is restricted to normal and Alpha on charecter creation)

thanks
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Fortune
post Apr 23 2008, 11:15 AM
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The Availability maximum is 12 at chargen.
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Shiloh
post Apr 23 2008, 11:29 AM
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QUOTE (PalaNolho @ Apr 23 2008, 11:15 AM) *
Another Question:
- on Character creation, whats the MAX availability for gear? the playes can buy ANY peace of equipment or is there any Availadility cap?
(i know that cyberware is restricted to normal and Alpha on charecter creation)

thanks

By the book, availability 12. It's in the gear section of the character generation chapter, IIRC.
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ArkonC
post Apr 23 2008, 11:59 AM
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QUOTE (Aaron @ Apr 20 2008, 10:23 PM) *
Page 160, Street Magic. Dead is dead.

So medical technology in 2070 forgot how to resuscitate?
There are no rules anywhere in the books on how to do this, and we haven't ever had the opportunity to even try, I mean, why try when the guy is missing a head, right? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Magic cannot raise the dead, but resuscitation through technological means should still be possible, and even have a bigger change of success, I think...
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PalaNolho
post Apr 23 2008, 12:07 PM
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QUOTE (ArkonC @ Apr 23 2008, 12:59 PM) *
So medical technology in 2070 forgot how to resuscitate?
There are no rules anywhere in the books on how to do this, and we haven't ever had the opportunity to even try, I mean, why try when the guy is missing a head, right? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Magic cannot raise the dead, but resuscitation through technological means should still be possible, and even have a bigger change of success, I think...


I think its a good thing that theres are no ressurection thing, that way the players will think twice or more before doing a stupid thing lol. But cloning clould be a possibility ( i dont know if there are any rules for cloning ).
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Aaron
post Apr 23 2008, 12:48 PM
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I'm fairly certain that "beyond Physical damage overflow max" is equivalent to "completely dead," whereas "full Physical Condition Monitor but not yet past the max" is equivalent to "able to be resuscitated," for medical and magical techniques. I'm willing to bet that the stabilization process includes resuscitation techniques.
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ArkonC
post Apr 23 2008, 12:53 PM
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QUOTE (Aaron @ Apr 23 2008, 02:48 PM) *
I'm fairly certain that "beyond Physical damage overflow max" is equivalent to "completely dead," whereas "full Physical Condition Monitor but not yet past the max" is equivalent to "able to be resuscitated," for medical and magical techniques. I'm willing to bet that the stabilization process includes resuscitation techniques.

Well, there have been instances of people being completely dead and still being successfully resuscitated...
I don't think rules for this would be very useful, since deaths that involve PCs are usually messy and beyond the scope of medical technology...
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Tarantula
post Apr 23 2008, 02:45 PM
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I think Aaron meant by "completely dead" a state of death so complete that one can't be resuscitated, represented by being "dead" in game terms. Maxing your physical damage boxes is "dead" as far as most people are concerned (heart may be stopped, etc.) but, you have that overflow amount before you're completely dead.
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PalaNolho
post Apr 23 2008, 03:05 PM
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QUOTE (ArkonC @ Apr 23 2008, 01:53 PM) *
Well, there have been instances of people being completely dead and still being successfully resuscitated...
I don't think rules for this would be very useful, since deaths that involve PCs are usually messy and beyond the scope of medical technology...



So then how whould it work with DocWagon contract? it only works as long you dont pass the maximum overflow?

Regarding DocWagon ... my players will have it for sure, so, if anyone could explain the practical use with simple exemples, i would be thankfull

Thanks.
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bjorn
post Apr 23 2008, 03:26 PM
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QUOTE (PalaNolho @ Apr 20 2008, 03:56 PM) *
NPCs in Combat:
- i was running the "On The Run" starting adventure and i reach a point where i had alot of NPCs in the same combat ( like 15 or so) plus 5 players. I got nuts trying to handle all the NPCs and i got really lost on this matter. How do you usualy do:
- - do you apply the wound modifiers to the NPCs actions and Init. too?
- - how do you usually handle combat between NPCs?
- - any tip to make this easyer?

With that many NPCs, I use the same initiative. If 1/2 or more take wounds lets say, I'll drop their initiative number 1. For actions, I do apply wound modifiers, but if I'm using that many NPCs, 95% of them have the same dice pool so it is easy to say "OK, ganger 1 has 6 dice to shoot with, -1 for wound, ganger 2 -2 dice, ganger 3 full dice pool, etc". I also only use 1 damage track, so physical and stun add up quickly and threats are eliminated. The only time I use 2 damage tracks and separate initiatives is for "boss type" NPCs (leaders and other runners).

QUOTE (PalaNolho @ Apr 20 2008, 03:56 PM) *
Movement in Combat:
- the movement rate is the same for all Combat Turn, so, how should i handle a players that has 3 IP and on the first one declares a running and goes to a location and do something, and on the next IP stays on tha same place doing something too?

If they have 3 IP's, they can only run 1/3 of their movement rate. So if they say they want to move across the street, but on the 2nd pass they actually want to shoot someone, their character stops in the middle of the street.

QUOTE (PalaNolho @ Apr 20 2008, 03:56 PM) *
Ressuscitation and Clones:
- anyone know it is it possible, how that can it be done and how does it work? (when charecter reaches damage overflow or passes the maximum overflow)

Cybermancy (Street Magic Book)

QUOTE (PalaNolho @ Apr 20 2008, 03:56 PM) *
Combat Handling:
- Since the rules dont state nothing related to "how to use map grids".. and so one ( because of the general use of movement on SR), i would like to know if anyone has been using maps and hex or square grids to draw the places wherethe characters are and to handle combat movement, to help to visualize things. (i think it may be easyer for me this way because its easyer to handle distances and so on)

We use wet-erase markers and mat with different colors representing different things. Makes the game much easier and more visual, the only thing is the bigger the mat you use, the bigger your playing surface has to be.
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Tarantula
post Apr 23 2008, 03:32 PM
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QUOTE (PalaNolho @ Apr 23 2008, 09:05 AM) *
So then how whould it work with DocWagon contract? it only works as long you dont pass the maximum overflow?


Basically, yeah.
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Aaron
post Apr 23 2008, 03:41 PM
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QUOTE (ArkonC @ Apr 23 2008, 06:53 AM) *
Well, there have been instances of people being completely dead and still being successfully resuscitated...

I am unaware of any cases that weren't simply a result of outdated definitions of "dead," specifically the cessation of breathing or heartbeat (which is now known as "clinical death," and is insufficient to pronounce a person dead). Wikipedia has a pretty good run down.
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Shiloh
post Apr 23 2008, 03:53 PM
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QUOTE (bjorn @ Apr 23 2008, 04:26 PM) *
If they have 3 IP's, they can only run 1/3 of their movement rate. So if they say they want to move across the street, but on the 2nd pass they actually want to shoot someone, their character stops in the middle of the street.


Nah, they shoot with the "Shooter running" negatives. Unless they *want* to stop...
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Speed Wraith
post Apr 23 2008, 04:34 PM
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I use a square grid battlemat, since our group had been doing DnD for the last few years (funny that 4th edition DnD drove me away, but I'll readily go to 4th SR (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) ). It isn't perfect, but I hate hexes for half-squares. We just started playing SR again so we haven't really settled on anything yet. I'm hoping to find a battlemat with smaller squares than 1 inch so that I have an easier time with doing large-scale combat.

As for initiative, I use excel. I've got a blank template that includes initiative on one side and an NPC condition monitor chart on the other. Again, not perfect, but we're still working out the kinks and trying to experiment with whatever we can. I've seen an initiative application, but only got it to work once...
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DTFarstar
post Apr 23 2008, 04:42 PM
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I have found that a couple of things work for me. For one, Hex maps seem to just work better for SR for some reason. I use one regularly in my games and each hex typically = 1m. Had to change that for some big areas, but otherwise it works fine.

I like Aaron's damage tracking. He's a clever fellow and you should definitely check out his SR web page. I do however check seperate initiative and wound modifiers for every NPC and apply them as appropriate. The thing is, I resolve NPC only interactions and initiative in the same way. When I am planning things out(or just really quickly if I'm working on the fly as I often am) I divide their relative DP by four(round down) and write that down next to it. Then whenever an NPC reaction is called for I roll a d6, divide by two rounding down(so results from 0-3), and add that number to the original number and that is how many hits they got. So, they still generally get 1 in 3, sometimes more and sometimes less. They glitch or crit glitch when it helps the story vs. each other. So, just one dice roll per action and literally a one dice dice roll.
For instance, Joe Cop and Jim Ganger are fighting in an alley, Joe Cop has a stun baton, a parry DP of 8, and a clubs DP of 10, Jim Ganger has a broken bottle, a dodge DP of 9, and a blades DP of 6 + 2 for knives spec - 2 for trying to use a bottle as a knife. So, Joe Cop has Parry 2, Clubs 2 and Jim Ganger has Dodge 2, Blades 1. Joe swings his stun baton at Jim and so I roll a d6 for each. Joe gets a 1 which is 0 when divided by two and rounded down. Jim gets a 5, which is a two. So, Clubs 2+0 vs. Dodge 2+2 and Jim dodges deftly out of the way. Joe got a slightly sub-par roll and Jim got a slightly above par roll when compared to the actual 1-in-3 hits you would statistically get.
It takes me very little time and allows me to still resolve things impartially without too much rolling or just deciding their fates.


As for movement, I would highly recommend you do what we have done and make all movements easily divisible by 4, then everyone gets to move their part during every IP. So, humans would walk 12m, and thus every human would be able to walk 3m an IP and even if they can't take an action they can move. Keeps people with lower IPs from feeling as left out and just makes things easier.

As for Doc Wagon, they are good if your team does not have a dedicated medic. Also, if you burn edge to live you will most likely really need medical treatment at least in my games. Also, think how long it really takes someone to bleed out to completely dead if they have a good body. The only resuscitation I allow is burned edge to live resus. Something drops you with a horrible amount of damage, you permanently burn edge, and when DW gets to you they can get you alive again. But otherwise, they are just guaranteed medics if yours bites a bullet or you have to split up.

Chris
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SprainOgre
post Apr 23 2008, 04:44 PM
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QUOTE (PalaNolho @ Apr 23 2008, 07:07 AM) *
I think its a good thing that theres are no ressurection thing, that way the players will think twice or more before doing a stupid thing lol. But cloning clould be a possibility ( i dont know if there are any rules for cloning ).

There are some rules for it in Augmentation if I'm not mistaken.

QUOTE (ArkonC @ Apr 23 2008, 07:53 AM) *
Well, there have been instances of people being completely dead and still being successfully resuscitated...
I don't think rules for this would be very useful, since deaths that involve PCs are usually messy and beyond the scope of medical technology...

That's what permanently burning a point of edge is for though, isn't it?
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DTFarstar
post Apr 23 2008, 04:47 PM
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That is the way I run it, SprainOgre.

Chris
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PalaNolho
post Apr 23 2008, 05:55 PM
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QUOTE (Speed Wraith @ Apr 23 2008, 05:34 PM) *
I use a square grid battlemat, since our group had been doing DnD for the last few years (funny that 4th edition DnD drove me away, but I'll readily go to 4th SR (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) ). It isn't perfect, but I hate hexes for half-squares. We just started playing SR again so we haven't really settled on anything yet. I'm hoping to find a battlemat with smaller squares than 1 inch so that I have an easier time with doing large-scale combat.


Funny, coz my group played D&D too lol

Here see this. Its a free grid maker [ LINK ]

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Speed Wraith
post Apr 23 2008, 05:59 PM
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QUOTE (PalaNolho @ Apr 23 2008, 12:55 PM) *
Funny, coz my group played D&D too lol

Here see this. Its a free grid maker [ LINK ]


Cool (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) The dot-grids remind me of the old DMZ game and Sprawl Maps...hmm...
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PalaNolho
post Apr 23 2008, 06:02 PM
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QUOTE (Shiloh @ Apr 23 2008, 04:53 PM) *
Nah, they shoot with the "Shooter running" negatives. Unless they *want* to stop...


But isnt the movement mode the same for all combat turn? like, if you decide you are running on the first IP then you are running on the next 2 IP too?

or you split the movement mode in 1/IP and use that mode on each separated IP ??

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SprainOgre
post Apr 23 2008, 06:03 PM
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I know that's one of my favorite uses for Edge that I hope I never have to use...
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deek
post Apr 23 2008, 08:15 PM
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QUOTE (PalaNolho @ Apr 23 2008, 02:02 PM) *
But isnt the movement mode the same for all combat turn? like, if you decide you are running on the first IP then you are running on the next 2 IP too?

or you split the movement mode in 1/IP and use that mode on each separated IP ??

I don't run it that way. Walking is free, so they always can move their walk speed each IP. Running is a Free Action. Sprinting a Simple Action. Its declared at the beginning of each IP. So, you can spend a Free Action in IP 1 and continue running at no cost indefinitely (but suffering running modifiers to actions). Or you could run in IP 1 with a free action, walk in IP 2 (no action spent), run in IP 3 (another free action) and assuming you only had 3 IPs, either continue running, stop or use your walk rate in IP 4. You couldn't sprint because that takes a Simple Action and you have no actions in IP 4.

Basically, this gives a player one of 3 movement rates each pass they can act in.
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bjorn
post Apr 23 2008, 08:21 PM
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QUOTE (Shiloh @ Apr 23 2008, 11:53 AM) *
Nah, they shoot with the "Shooter running" negatives. Unless they *want* to stop...

Yeah I guess, but what I was getting at is if they would move 35 meters in a turn they don't go that whole 35 meters on their first initiative pass.

QUOTE (PalaNolho @ Apr 23 2008, 02:02 PM) *
But isnt the movement mode the same for all combat turn? like, if you decide you are running on the first IP then you are running on the next 2 IP too?

or you split the movement mode in 1/IP and use that mode on each separated IP ??


I also allow you choose each IP. Since multiple IPs is saying your body moves faster and your brain can process more things, I see it as sensible to let the characters choose each turn.
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PalaNolho
post Apr 23 2008, 09:29 PM
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QUOTE (bjorn @ Apr 23 2008, 04:26 PM) *
Cybermancy (Street Magic Book)


can you tell me where did you saw that, please?
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SprainOgre
post Apr 23 2008, 09:37 PM
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QUOTE (PalaNolho @ Apr 23 2008, 04:29 PM) *
can you tell me where did you saw that, please?

Actually, I think Cybermancy is in Augmentation...
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Aaron
post Apr 23 2008, 11:30 PM
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It occurs to me that you don't even really need a grid. Just free-form it. Heck if you get some melamine counter-top for like five or ten bucks and cut it to match your table, you can use dry-erase to just draw your battlefields. Call it 1:100 (1 cm = 1 meter). Grab a tape measure and maybe a couple of pre-cut templates for movement (e.g. the player of a human character with 2 IP might have a 5cm template) and you're set.
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post Apr 24 2008, 04:26 AM
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QUOTE (ArkonC @ Apr 23 2008, 05:53 AM) *
Well, there have been instances of people being completely dead and still being successfully resuscitated...

Trauma arrests are pretty damn fatal. Like 2% survival if they get to a trauma center in under 10 minutes. It's worse if it's due to blunt force. (The link will tell you far more than you probably wanted to know - but I had it handy. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/talker.gif) )

The bleeding to death rules in SR ("PHYSICAL DAMAGE OVERFLOW") are pretty insane, but getting shot up is a bad thing.
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PalaNolho
post Apr 24 2008, 11:40 AM
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Need some help with a char generator.

Im currently using "SR4Chargen.xls - Last Design Update: 2006/Oct/4 Update By: blakkie, Dumpshock Forums

I just noticed now that the Gear sections ir not costumizable. Is there any update on this chargen os is there any other good chargen somewhere ??

thanks
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PalaNolho
post Apr 24 2008, 06:38 PM
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Ok, here comes another question:

Spellcasting:
- im getting confused with the Force i must choose in certain spells. For exemple the levitate ou Invisibility spell. What does the Force influence on that spells?


Drones, vehicle and Riggers:
- vehicle can be controled manually, remotly, or "jumped into" (right?)
- drones can be controled remotly or "jumped into" (right?)

As the "jumped into" part of the control, the rigger become the drone/vehicle, so on the players turn, he drone/veichle acts.
And what about when you are controling it remotly?

Does any vehicle/drone act alone as the rigger command him to?

How does it work in combat, lets say, a rigger that has 2 flying drones that can shoot at people. How would it work?
( i like rigger but im getting dificult in "how to handle" them (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sarcastic.gif) )

Thanks in advance.
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Wesley Street
post Apr 24 2008, 08:28 PM
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QUOTE (Speed Wraith @ Apr 23 2008, 11:34 AM) *
I use a square grid battlemat, since our group had been doing DnD for the last few years (funny that 4th edition DnD drove me away, but I'll readily go to 4th SR (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) ). It isn't perfect, but I hate hexes for half-squares. We just started playing SR again so we haven't really settled on anything yet. I'm hoping to find a battlemat with smaller squares than 1 inch so that I have an easier time with doing large-scale combat.


I use two dry-erase battlemaps as I've never found any scale smaller than 1" squares. But if smaller-than-1" dry-erase battlemaps exist and are easy to purchase someone let me know!
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Shiloh
post Apr 25 2008, 09:20 AM
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QUOTE (PalaNolho @ Apr 24 2008, 07:38 PM) *
Spellcasting:
- im getting confused with the Force i must choose in certain spells. For exemple the levitate ou Invisibility spell. What does the Force influence on that spells?


The Force of the spell limits the number of hits from the [magic+spellcasting+focus] test. Some spells are more affected by this than others, but Levitate, for example can lift an amount of stuff based on the number of hits you get. So casting it at Force 1 means you'll only be able to lift a maximum of one "per hit" unit of mass.
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Muspellsheimr
post Apr 25 2008, 10:13 AM
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QUOTE (PalaNolho @ Apr 24 2008, 11:38 AM) *
Spellcasting:
- im getting confused with the Force i must choose in certain spells. For exemple the levitate ou Invisibility spell. What does the Force influence on that spells?

The spell's force (chosen when cast) is the maximum number of hits (not net hits) you can apply from your Spellcasting test. Further, most spells have other effects determined by force - base damage for combat spells, the speed you can move objects with Levitate, etc.
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Aaron
post Apr 25 2008, 01:52 PM
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QUOTE (PalaNolho @ Apr 24 2008, 12:38 PM) *
Spellcasting:
- im getting confused with the Force i must choose in certain spells. For exemple the levitate ou Invisibility spell. What does the Force influence on that spells?

Let me know if this helps: http://pavao.org/shadowrun/cheatsheets/SR4Spellcasting.pdf.
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DTFarstar
post Apr 25 2008, 04:44 PM
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I wish the battlemat we had was dry-erase. IT is wet erase and stain easily.

Chris
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deek
post Apr 25 2008, 05:26 PM
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QUOTE (DTFarstar @ Apr 25 2008, 11:44 AM) *
I wish the battlemat we had was dry-erase. IT is wet erase and stain easily.

Chris

Ours too. It kinda sucks.
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Nightwalker450
post Apr 25 2008, 06:29 PM
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I wish I had this
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deek
post Apr 25 2008, 06:37 PM
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QUOTE (Nightwalker450 @ Apr 25 2008, 02:29 PM) *
I wish I had this

That is pretty badass.

The guy whose house we play at has a projector in his basement and we had considered using that for mapping. We play on a pool table with a battlemat on it, so it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to make it happen...

I have read that laptops may be the norm when DnD 4th Edition comes out...
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Nightwalker450
post Apr 25 2008, 06:40 PM
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We're at 3 out of 6 people have laptops at the gaming table. I've just got to talk my wife into letting me hook a projector to our ceiling, either that or find some (non-permanent) way of suspending it over the table. I've found others who have just projected a picture onto the grid battlemat, so they didn't have to mess with the grid. I think I prefer that way as it would save alot of work (and make the area look more organic instead of blocky).
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Aaron
post Apr 26 2008, 03:32 AM
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I'd rather have a table that back-projected (under-projected?) the screen. Way easier to cable.
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Aaron
post Apr 26 2008, 03:34 AM
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QUOTE (DTFarstar @ Apr 25 2008, 10:44 AM) *
I wish the battlemat we had was dry-erase. IT is wet erase and stain easily.

Melamine. It's really cheap, and works fine as a dry-erase surface. In fact, when I converted the chalk boards in my lab to white boards, I just bought two 4x8 sheets of the stuff and clamped them in place using the chalkboard housing. It's been there for three years and still works great.
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PalaNolho
post Apr 27 2008, 07:46 PM
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Your are giving me a really good help. Thank you guys ( and girls ir any arround lol )

Any help on the Drones/Vehicles part ??
QUOTE
Drones, vehicle and Riggers:
- vehicle can be controled manually, remotly, or "jumped into" (right?)
- drones can be controled remotly or "jumped into" (right?)

As the "jumped into" part of the control, the rigger become the drone/vehicle, so on the players turn, he drone/veichle acts.
And what about when you are controling it remotly?

Does any vehicle/drone act alone as the rigger command him to?

How does it work in combat, lets say, a rigger that has 2 flying drones that can shoot at people. How would it work?
( i like rigger but im getting dificult in "how to handle" them sarcastic.gif )
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Crusher Bob
post Apr 28 2008, 06:49 AM
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The program that controls a drone when you are not jumped into it is called a pilot program.

A drone operating on its own has an initiative or its response + pilot rating and gets 3 IP (BBB p158, Vehicle Initiative)

When shooting at drones operating on their own, they have a passive defense of pilot +/- the drones handling (BBB p161, Attacks Against Vehicles).

For shooting, drones roll Pilot + targeting autosoft (BBB p162, Drones and Gunnery)
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PalaNolho
post Apr 28 2008, 09:04 AM
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Thanks (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Just one more thing. Wich book is BBB ?

Regards.
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Crusher Bob
post Apr 28 2008, 09:07 AM
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Big Black/Blue Book, the main rule book.
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PalaNolho
post Apr 28 2008, 11:21 AM
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Thanks (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Another one:

Healing Spell:
- im not understanding how does this spell works, specially the part hat says "only work unce for one set of wounds"

Anyone can explai it in a simple way? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sarcastic.gif)

thanks
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Crusher Bob
post Apr 28 2008, 12:23 PM
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Guy Allen is in fight, gets hit for 6 boxes of damage, goes to mage saying 'heeeeaal!" Mage cast spell at force 4, gets 4 hits on spell, heals 4 boxes. Mage buddy cannot cast heal again to heal the last two boxes, as magical healing has already been cast on that injury.

Later Allan gets into another fight, taking another 7 boxes (bringing him to total of 9 boxes of damage). He goes crawling to mage buddy again. Mage buddy pulls out all the stops, cast heal at force 8, and spends edge. With lucky dice roll, mage gets 8 hits on healing spell this time, but sadly can only heal 7 boxes (bringing Allen back down to two). He can't heal the last two boxes since that set of injuries had already had heal cast on it earlier.
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Fortune
post Apr 28 2008, 01:42 PM
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Shadowrun Rule # 13: Always use First Aid before using any magical healing.
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PalaNolho
post Apr 28 2008, 02:16 PM
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QUOTE (Crusher Bob @ Apr 28 2008, 01:23 PM) *
Guy Allen is in fight, gets hit for 6 boxes of damage, goes to mage saying 'heeeeaal!" Mage cast spell at force 4, gets 4 hits on spell, heals 4 boxes. Mage buddy cannot cast heal again to heal the last two boxes, as magical healing has already been cast on that injury.

Later Allan gets into another fight, taking another 7 boxes (bringing him to total of 9 boxes of damage). He goes crawling to mage buddy again. Mage buddy pulls out all the stops, cast heal at force 8, and spends edge. With lucky dice roll, mage gets 8 hits on healing spell this time, but sadly can only heal 7 boxes (bringing Allen back down to two). He can't heal the last two boxes since that set of injuries had already had heal cast on it earlier.


So let me see if i got it right. lets say AA has 5 boxes and the mage heals 3 boxes. So AA has 2 boxes remaining. Thouse 2 boxes can only be healed with magic IF they increase ( like if he get another shoot and gain 1 more box of damage/stun) so AA will have 4 boxes and the Mage can try again.

Did i get it correctly ??

If im not wrong first aid works on the same way right ?
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DireRadiant
post Apr 28 2008, 02:23 PM
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QUOTE (PalaNolho @ Apr 20 2008, 02:56 PM) *
Greetings everyone.

I would like to ask some questions since im new to Shadowrun setting and system and to the GMing buisness. So.. here it goes:

Ressuscitation and Clones:
- anyone know it is it possible, how that can it be done and how does it work? (when charecter reaches damage overflow or passes the maximum overflow)


You can burn the Edge and live... the "Story" reason might be resuscitation.
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Crusher Bob
post Apr 28 2008, 02:25 PM
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Normal rule interpretation is that the two boxes left over after the first magical healing can't be healed by further magical healing attempts either. They have to be healed naturally. Even is Allen takes more boxes, he can only be magically healed down to two boxes.

So:

1st fight:
Allen takes 4 boxes.
Mage buddy heals 2 boxes.
Allen has 2 boxes 'unhealable'

----------

2nd fight
Allen takes 4 more boxes (is now at 6 boxes total)
Mage buddy heals 3 boxes
Allen has 3 boxes of damage 'unhealable'

-----------

3rd fight
Allen takes 5 boxes (is now at 9 boxes total)
Mage buddy gets 9 hits on healing spell, but can only heal Allen down to 3 boxes of damage, since those 3 boxes are 'unhealable'. Allen will have to rest up so that those 3 boxes heal naturally. Note that there are plenty of things to speed natural healing times, and even unassisted natural healing by RAW is very fast.

---------------

The thing Fortune is alluding to is that first aid can't be used after magical healing, but magical healing can be used after first aid.
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Nightwalker450
post Apr 28 2008, 02:25 PM
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QUOTE (PalaNolho @ Apr 28 2008, 09:16 AM) *
So let me see if i got it right. lets say AA has 5 boxes and the mage heals 3 boxes. So AA has 2 boxes remaining. Thouse 2 boxes can only be healed with magic IF they increase ( like if he get another shoot and gain 1 more box of damage/stun) so AA will have 4 boxes and the Mage can try again.

Did i get it correctly ??

If im not wrong first aid works on the same way right ?


No, those 2 boxes will only be healed by bedrest. Once magic has been used it can't be used again for that damage. First Aid works the same, except that after First Aid you can apply Magic Healing (not vice-versa).

EDIT: Crusher Bob beat me to the punch.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)
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Tarantula
post Apr 28 2008, 02:33 PM
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I don't like the interpretation that if you take 3 boxes, get magically healed for 2, and then take 3 more, and get healed for the full 4 that it doesn't work. Why? Too much bookeeping. Oh, I got this wound from that devil rat, and didn't quite get healed, so I can't heal my first box. And this one from that ganger, but my mage is horrible at healing today, so now I can't heal my first 3 boxes. And so on.

Also, how does this work with the heal DV? Since its the damage you're healing, if you have someone who takes 3 boxes of damage, gets healed for one, then takes 4 more (total of 6 now) does the DV for heal go off the 4 you can possibly heal, or the full 6? Why should it be the full 6 if you can't heal them?

I'm of the opinion that if you get injured again, you can heal up the full amount, and the heal spell uses the full amount of boxes to base its DV off of. Less bookkeeping, less headache, and if any runners really want to shoot themselves in the foot to give the mage another chance...... well, lets just say it'll be a composure test at the least.
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Shiloh
post Apr 28 2008, 02:35 PM
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QUOTE (PalaNolho @ Apr 28 2008, 03:16 PM) *
So let me see if i got it right. lets say AA has 5 boxes and the mage heals 3 boxes. So AA has 2 boxes remaining. Thouse 2 boxes can only be healed with magic IF they increase...


Not quite. They can't be healed with magic at all. Ever. But any *increase* in damagedness can.


QUOTE
...( like if he get another shoot and gain [2] more box of damage/stun) so AA will have 4 boxes and the Mage can try again.


But the most the mage can heal is the two *new* ones. And just to remind you can't heal *Stun* track damage with magic. This is to prevent Mages healing themselves of damage inflicted by Drain.


QUOTE
If im not wrong first aid works on the same way right ?


Yep. But since you don't take Drain from First Aid, it's best to apply that first to any "wounds" that can be treated so that your Heal spells can be cast at lower Force and you take less Drain.
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deek
post Apr 28 2008, 02:37 PM
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QUOTE (Tarantula @ Apr 28 2008, 10:33 AM) *
I don't like the interpretation that if you take 3 boxes, get magically healed for 2, and then take 3 more, and get healed for the full 4 that it doesn't work. Why? Too much bookeeping. Oh, I got this wound from that devil rat, and didn't quite get healed, so I can't heal my first box. And this one from that ganger, but my mage is horrible at healing today, so now I can't heal my first 3 boxes. And so on.

Also, how does this work with the heal DV? Since its the damage you're healing, if you have someone who takes 3 boxes of damage, gets healed for one, then takes 4 more (total of 6 now) does the DV for heal go off the 4 you can possibly heal, or the full 6? Why should it be the full 6 if you can't heal them?

I'm of the opinion that if you get injured again, you can heal up the full amount, and the heal spell uses the full amount of boxes to base its DV off of. Less bookkeeping, less headache, and if any runners really want to shoot themselves in the foot to give the mage another chance...... well, lets just say it'll be a composure test at the least.

I don't think its too much bookkeeping...as its the players that track that sort of thing.

It does mention multiple times that healing is done per wounds. You can choose not to do it that way, but having a player with first aid in our group, it seems to work pretty well with players remembering what kind of wounds they have.
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Nightwalker450
post Apr 28 2008, 02:40 PM
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Reading some answers, and realized I might be confused on something.

Is DV based on the damage the person you are healing has taken? Or is it based on the amount of damage you are healing?

If I heal 3 boxes on someone with 8 boxes of damage.... Is my DV based on the 3 or the 8?
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deek
post Apr 28 2008, 02:43 PM
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QUOTE (Nightwalker450 @ Apr 28 2008, 10:40 AM) *
Reading some answers, and realized I might be confused on something.

Is DV based on the damage the person you are healing has taken? Or is it based on the amount of damage you are healing?

If I heal 3 boxes on someone with 8 boxes of damage.... Is my DV based on the 3 or the 8?

It should be based on the wound. If that was one 8 box wound, then you have no choice but to base it off 8. But, if it was two 3 DV wounds and a 2 DV wound, then you are looking at three separate healing tests.
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Nightwalker450
post Apr 28 2008, 02:45 PM
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QUOTE (deek @ Apr 28 2008, 09:43 AM) *
It should be based on the wound. If that was one 8 box wound, then you have no choice but to base it off 8. But, if it was two 3 DV wounds and a 2 DV wound, then you are looking at three separate healing tests.


I go by "Set of wounds" as in all damage you've taken since you were last healed. 3 bullet wounds is 1 set of wounds.
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Shiloh
post Apr 28 2008, 02:47 PM
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QUOTE (Nightwalker450 @ Apr 28 2008, 03:40 PM) *
Reading some answers, and realized I might be confused on something.

Is DV based on the damage the person you are healing has taken? Or is it based on the amount of damage you are healing?

If I heal 3 boxes on someone with 8 boxes of damage.... Is my DV based on the 3 or the 8?


Or is it based on the 5 boxes you could, potentially, have healed (just assuming 3 had already been failed on by magic previously)...?

I don't think it matters whether it's 5 1pt scratches that are new, or one 5pt cratering round...
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deek
post Apr 28 2008, 06:40 PM
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QUOTE (Shiloh @ Apr 28 2008, 09:47 AM) *
Or is it based on the 5 boxes you could, potentially, have healed (just assuming 3 had already been failed on by magic previously)...?

I don't think it matters whether it's 5 1pt scratches that are new, or one 5pt cratering round...

But it does matter...in game, at least. Five 1pt scratches are a lot easier to heal than a single 5pt crater. We've got one person in the group with First Aid and he's not crazy-good at it. So, when someone needs healing, he'll ask how many boxes, the recipient will tell him and the healer rolls. He'll then ask if there are any more, so on and so forth. Stuff that is not healed, the recipient makes a note of and we move on.

If someone doesn't remember exactly, we'll estimate and with 5 people at the table (which includes the GM), we figure it out and agree.

I actually didn't instill this behavior, several of us interpreted the rules the same and ran with it...
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Shiloh
post Apr 29 2008, 11:02 AM
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QUOTE (deek @ Apr 28 2008, 07:40 PM) *
But it does matter...in game, at least. Five 1pt scratches are a lot easier to heal than a single 5pt crater...


Oh, absolutely. I meant that I didn't think the rules took it into account, so 5 x 1pt scratches *aren't* easier to heal unless you heal *in between each one*...

How much sense this makes... well, it's magic, so it's not required to make sense; whatever fits the tempo of your game. Healing many wounds, though, is going to mean sustaining many spells to permanent... Perhaps lumping "all damage since the last Heal" together is a good shorthand for the increasing difficulty of chain healing without fistfuls of foci.
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PalaNolho
post Apr 30 2008, 08:28 AM
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QUOTE (Muspellsheimr @ Apr 25 2008, 11:13 AM) *
The spell's force (chosen when cast) is the maximum number of hits (not net hits) you can apply from your Spellcasting test. Further, most spells have other effects determined by force - base damage for combat spells, the speed you can move objects with Levitate, etc.



so lets say um casting Force 5 Control Thoughts on someone. I roll 7 hit. So the other char will roll Spell Resist and only have to beat 5, right ??

About Spirits:
"Physical spirits have the power of Immunity to Normal Weapons. (pg 288) Giving them armor equal to twice there force against ALL attacks."

This only means that the spirit rolls (force x 2 dice + body) on defence roll, right ?

This post has been edited by PalaNolho: Apr 30 2008, 10:06 AM
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Muspellsheimr
post Apr 30 2008, 08:43 AM
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You can apply magical healing once per "set of wounds", which can be interpreted a few ways; wounds received sense the last time you were healed, wounds received sense the last time you were healed (categorized by type: Burn, Chemical, Bullet, etc.), and wounds received from each attack (tracked separately, my groups interpretation).

Any damage that magic failed to heal from a set of wounds can now only be healed naturally. I find it is effective to track damage taken with a / in the damage box, and any damage that cannot be healed, such as from a failed healing marked as an X. Use a small mark on the corner of the box to separate different "wound sets".
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Tarantula
post Apr 30 2008, 01:59 PM
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QUOTE (PalaNolho @ Apr 30 2008, 01:28 AM) *
so lets say um casting Force 5 Control Thoughts on someone. I roll 7 hit. So the other char will roll Spell Resist and only have to beat 5, right ??

About Spirits:
"Physical spirits have the power of Immunity to Normal Weapons. (pg 288) Giving them armor equal to twice there force against ALL attacks."

This only means that the spirit rolls (force x 2 dice + body) on defence roll, right ?


Depending on what you mean by defense test. Theres a couple various common terms for different tests.

Ranged Combat Defense test = Reaction
Melee combat defense test = Reaction + Melee Skill

Damage Resistance Test (What I think you meant) = Body + Armor.

In the case of spirits, yes, they roll body + armor (which is forcex2)
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PalaNolho
post Apr 30 2008, 04:59 PM
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QUOTE
In the case of spirits, yes, they roll body + armor (which is forcex2)


Then the spirits are not completly immune to normal weapons, just have a big defence agains it ( even with 15 dices its possible to get less hits them the attacker )
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Tarantula
post Apr 30 2008, 06:06 PM
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QUOTE (PalaNolho @ Apr 30 2008, 10:59 AM) *
Then the spirits are not completly immune to normal weapons, just have a big defence agains it ( even with 15 dices its possible to get less hits them the attacker )


Correct. Note, that the Immunity to Normal Weapons power references the hardened armor power as well. If the power of the attack is less than the rating of the armor, the attack fails outright.

For example, force 4 spirit has 8 armor. You shoot it with a pistol for 7P. The spirit doesn't even roll anything, the attack fails because 7 < 8. Same spirit, you hit it with a sword that ends up doing 10P. Now the spirit rolls its body + armor to resist that damage.
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deek
post Apr 30 2008, 06:12 PM
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QUOTE (Tarantula @ Apr 30 2008, 02:06 PM) *
For example, force 4 spirit has 8 armor. You shoot it with a pistol for 7P. The spirit doesn't even roll anything, the attack fails because 7 < 8. Same spirit, you hit it with a sword that ends up doing 10P. Now the spirit rolls its body + armor to resist that damage.

There's a reaction test in there, too. So, you can outright miss the spirit, hit the spirit but not get past its armor, or actually hit it.

Personally, I think it would be better if there was a downgraded effect when actually hitting the spirit. Even the big damage, it should be reduced by something if the spirit has immunity...
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Tarantula
post Apr 30 2008, 06:24 PM
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QUOTE (deek @ Apr 30 2008, 12:12 PM) *
There's a reaction test in there, too. So, you can outright miss the spirit, hit the spirit but not get past its armor, or actually hit it.

Personally, I think it would be better if there was a downgraded effect when actually hitting the spirit. Even the big damage, it should be reduced by something if the spirit has immunity...


Yes, as I stipulated in my examples, it was already having hit the spirit and thus have the damage of the attack.

From the start of the round, it would be attack test vs spirits defense test.
Then compare damage to spirits armor, if less than attack negated, if greater than continue.
Roll spirits body + armor vs attacks damage.
Spirit takes damage, mark condition monitor and note damage penalties.
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PalaNolho
post Apr 30 2008, 08:56 PM
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So let me see if i got it:

QUOTE
Hardened Armor:
Hardened Armor is even tougher than normal armor. If the modified Damage Value of an attack does not exceed the Armor rating (modified by Armor Penetration), then it bounces harmlessly off the critter; don’t even bother to make a Damage Resistance Test. Otherwise, Hardened Armor provides both Ballistic and Impact armor equal to its rating.

Immunity:
A critter with Immunity has an enhanced resistance to a certain type of attack or affliction. The critter gains an “Armor rating� equal to twice its Magic against that damage. This Immunity Armor is treated as “hardened� protection (see Hardened Armor above), meaning that if the Damage Value does not exceed the Armor, then the attack automatically does no damage.

Immunity to Normal Weapons: This immunity applies
to all weapons that are not magical (weapon foci, spells, adept
or critter powers). If the critter has the Allergy weakness, then
the Immunity does not apply against non-magical attacks
made using the allergen.

Spirit Combat:
... Physical spirits have the power of Immunity to Normal Weapons (see p. 288), giving them Armor equal to twice their Force against all attacks. This makes powerful spirits virtually immune to most physical attacks.


This was what you were talking about right? so ANY spirit in phisical form has an Hardened Armor = Force x 2
Ok... now i see that Spirits are indeed fearse opponents lol

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PalaNolho
post May 1 2008, 03:45 PM
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Another Question

Magic Initiation:
- does a character need to have 6 on MAgic to undergo Initiation?
- lets say i have buy 6 rank in magic but because of cyberware it decreses to 5. Can i enter initiation?

Spell
QUOTE
Increase [Attribute]
Type: P �€� Range: T �€� Duration: S �€� DV: (F ÷ 2) �€“ 2
This spell increases an attribute (natural or augmented) on
a voluntary subject. A version of this spell exists for each Physical
and Mental attribute, but not for Special attributes (Initiative,
Edge, Essence, Magic, or Resonance). The Force of the spell must
equal or exceed the (augmented) value of the attribute being affected.
The attribute is increased by an amount equal to the hits
scored. Each attribute can only be affected by a single Increase
Attribute spell at a time.
Note that increasing an attribute may affect other derived
statistics (Increase Reaction also affects Initiative, for example,
while Increase Body will add extra boxes to the character�€™s
Physical Condition Monitor for as long as the spell lasts).

lets say i have 5 Body and i cast this spell on Body. It i want go get 10 body, i need to use force 10 or force 5 qhen casting the spell?



thanks

This post has been edited by PalaNolho: May 1 2008, 04:06 PM
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Crusher Bob
post May 1 2008, 03:50 PM
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QUOTE (PalaNolho @ May 1 2008, 11:45 PM) *
Another Question

Magic Initiation:
- does a character need to have 6 on MAgic to undergo Initiation?


No

QUOTE
- lets say i have buy 6 rank in magic but because of cyberware it decreses to 5. Can i enter initiation?


Yes
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Nightwalker450
post May 1 2008, 03:51 PM
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Even people with Astral Sight, Spell Knack and Spirit Knack can initiate, and their magic never gets above 1.
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HentaiZonga
post May 1 2008, 03:52 PM
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QUOTE (PalaNolho @ May 1 2008, 08:45 AM) *
Another Question

Magic Initiation:
- does a character need to have 6 on MAgic to undergo Initiation?
- lets say i have buy 6 rank in magic but because of cyberware it decreses to 5. Can i enter initiation?


thanks


The way Initiation works is, you have to have a Magic rating equal to the grade you want to achieve. So, as long as you have a Magic of 1, you can Initiate. You'd have to have a Magic of 2 to Initiate twice, a Magic of 3 to Initiate 3 times, and so on. Each time you Initiate, it raises your attribute cap for Magic by 1.

So if you had a Magic of 6, you could Initiate 6 times (raising your cap to 12), and then you would have to spend Karma on raising Magic from 6 to 7 before you could Initiate again.
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Shiloh
post May 1 2008, 04:05 PM
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QUOTE (PalaNolho @ Apr 30 2008, 09:56 PM) *
So let me see if i got it:
QUOTE

Hardened Armor:
Hardened Armor is even tougher than normal armor. If the modified Damage Value of an attack does not exceed the Armor rating (modified by Armor Penetration), then it bounces harmlessly off the critter; don’t even bother to make a Damage Resistance Test. Otherwise, Hardened Armor provides both Ballistic and Impact armor equal to its rating.

Immunity:
A critter with Immunity has an enhanced resistance to a certain type of attack or affliction. The critter gains an “Armor rating� equal to twice its Magic against that damage. This Immunity Armor is treated as “hardened� protection (see Hardened Armor above), meaning that if the Damage Value does not exceed the Armor, then the attack automatically does no damage.

Immunity to Normal Weapons: This immunity applies
to all weapons that are not magical (weapon foci, spells, adept
or critter powers). If the critter has the Allergy weakness, then
the Immunity does not apply against non-magical attacks
made using the allergen.

Spirit Combat:
... Physical spirits have the power of Immunity to Normal Weapons (see p. 288), giving them Armor equal to twice their Force against all attacks. This makes powerful spirits virtually immune to most physical attacks.



This was what you were talking about right? so ANY spirit in phisical form has an Hardened Armor = Force x 2
Ok... now i see that Spirits are indeed fearse opponents lol


Eek. I thought they were pretty scary when a F5 had 10 Armour to *roll*, but that looks like Immunity to Normal Weapons is a special/specific case of Immunity, and that makes 'em *right* scary! Small arms won't scratch 'em. Handy to know before tonight... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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deek
post May 1 2008, 04:07 PM
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QUOTE (HentaiZonga @ May 1 2008, 10:52 AM) *
The way Initiation works is, you have to have a Magic rating equal to the grade you want to achieve. So, as long as you have a Magic of 1, you can Initiate. You'd have to have a Magic of 2 to Initiate twice, a Magic of 3 to Initiate 3 times, and so on. Each time you Initiate, it raises your attribute cap for Magic by 1.

So if you had a Magic of 6, you could Initiate 6 times (raising your cap to 12), and then you would have to spend Karma on raising Magic from 6 to 7 before you could Initiate again.

Which is why I've never understood why mages fear losing essence so much? Granted, my campaigns have pretty high karma rewards, so that could be a big difference in my perception.
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Shiloh
post May 1 2008, 04:08 PM
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QUOTE (HentaiZonga @ May 1 2008, 04:52 PM) *
The way Initiation works is, you have to have a Magic rating equal to the grade you want to achieve. So, as long as you have a Magic of 1, you can Initiate. You'd have to have a Magic of 2 to Initiate twice, a Magic of 3 to Initiate 3 times, and so on. Each time you Initiate, it raises your attribute cap for Magic by 1.

So if you had a Magic of 6, you could Initiate 6 times (raising your cap to 12), and then you would have to spend Karma on raising Magic from 6 to 7 before you could Initiate again.


Heh. More old version assumptions catching up with me here. I had assumed Initiation added 1 to your Magic (and the cap).
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HentaiZonga
post May 1 2008, 04:13 PM
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QUOTE (Shiloh @ May 1 2008, 09:08 AM) *
Heh. More old version assumptions catching up with me here. I had assumed Initiation added 1 to your Magic (and the cap).


*nod* Making Magic a purchasable attribute was the best thing the developers ever did for Shadowrun. I wish I knew who's idea that was, so I could buy them a drink.
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Shiloh
post May 1 2008, 04:58 PM
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QUOTE (deek @ May 1 2008, 05:07 PM) *
Which is why I've never understood why mages fear losing essence so much? Granted, my campaigns have pretty high karma rewards, so that could be a big difference in my perception.


Essence loss lowers the cap and can eventually burn the mage out entirely... Initiation past about 3 ranks should be rare, costly and difficult. You can't buy back that point lost from Essence damage.
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HentaiZonga
post May 1 2008, 05:02 PM
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QUOTE (Shiloh @ May 1 2008, 09:58 AM) *
Essence loss lowers the cap and can eventually burn the mage out entirely... Initiation past about 3 ranks should be rare, costly and difficult. You can't buy back that point lost from Essence damage.


Realize, if you Initiate with a group and take an Ordeal every single time, you're paying the following to Initiate:

Grade 1 - 8 Karma
Grade 2 - 10 Karma
Grade 3 - 12 Karma
Grade 4 - 14 Karma
Grade 5 - 15 Karma

Past Grade 5, of course, you're generally better off just buying a new Metamagic technique outright. But to get from Grade 1 to 5 costs a minimum of 59 Karma - more if you build an Ally Spirit as one of your Ordeals.

Add onto this the cost of re-purchasing Magic (3 x new rating, so generally 15 to 18 to 'stay even'), and it can get pretty hefty.

Also: Your maximum Magic rating is equal to (Essence + Initiate Grade), round down, and your maximum Initiate grade is equal to your Magic rating.
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deek
post May 1 2008, 05:30 PM
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Seeing I give out a base 10 karma per session, the limiting factor at my table is time, not to mention finding the mentor/group to initiate through.

I think I've got players with an average of 60-80 karma they haven't spent yet...yeah, things are different at my table.
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HentaiZonga
post May 1 2008, 05:34 PM
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QUOTE (deek @ May 1 2008, 10:30 AM) *
Seeing I give out a base 10 karma per session, the limiting factor at my table is time, not to mention finding the mentor/group to initiate through.

I think I've got players with an average of 60-80 karma they haven't spent yet...yeah, things are different at my table.


*nod* I used to Monty Hall my group's Karma, back in the day. According to Pg. 263 of the BBB, a good player should typically be getting about 5 Karma per session, maxing out to 11 if he does everything right and really shines in the process. 10's a little high, but not too terribly bad.

Keep in mind that there's a lot for an Awakened character to spend that on, though. I know my Mage typically blows through 18 Karma a pop just on Quickened spells and amusing Anchoring tricks.
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PalaNolho
post May 1 2008, 06:28 PM
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Another Question:
- How many Sustaning focils can a character have active at same time?
- when using a sustaining focil to cast, the spell uses max force = focil power and the mage ad the force used from the focil to the spellcastin check or it uses his own magic atribut, but the force choosen cant be greater then the focil power?

About this spell:
QUOTE
Increase [Attribute]
Type: P �€� Range: T �€� Duration: S �€� DV: (F ÷ 2) �€“ 2
This spell increases an attribute (natural or augmented) on a voluntary subject. A version of this spell exists for each Physical and Mental attribute, but not for Special attributes (Initiative, Edge, Essence, Magic, or Resonance). The Force of the spell must equal or exceed the (augmented) value of the attribute being affected.
The attribute is increased by an amount equal to the hits scored. Each attribute can only be affected by a single Increase Attribute spell at a time. Note that increasing an attribute may affect other derived
statistics (Increase Reaction also affects Initiative, for example, while Increase Body will add extra boxes to the character�€™s Physical Condition Monitor for as long as the spell lasts).

Lets say i have 5 Body and i cast this spell on Body. It i want go get 10 body, i need to use force 10 or force 5 qhen casting the spell?



thanks

This post has been edited by PalaNolho: May 1 2008, 06:29 PM
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Nightwalker450
post May 1 2008, 06:33 PM
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QUOTE (PalaNolho @ May 1 2008, 01:28 PM) *
Another Question:
- How many Sustaning focils can a character have active at same time?
- when using a sustaining focil to cast, the spell uses max force = focil power and the mage ad the force used from the focil to the spellcastin check or it uses his own magic atribut, but the force choosen cant be greater then the focil power?


Logic Foci's active at one time. If I understand your second question... No you don't add the force of the foci to the casting, it just holds the cast spell.

QUOTE (PalaNolho @ May 1 2008, 01:28 PM) *
Lets say i have 5 Body and i cast this spell on Body. It i want go get 10 body, i need to use force 10 or force 5 qhen casting the spell?

It has to be cast at Force 5 (or higher, but our goal is 10 so 5 works). You just have to get 5 hits, and then these are added.

If you had a body of 4 and wanted to get to 10, you'd want to cast at Force 6, Force 4 would only get you to 8.

But you're still limited to Base * 1.5 for Max Attribute.
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PalaNolho
post May 1 2008, 10:02 PM
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About Mystic Adepts:
- is there any restriction on the spellcasting skill rating? lets say, i have 4 Magic alocated for magic skills. can i have 5 ranks on Spellcastig ??
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Fortune
post May 2 2008, 12:20 AM
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QUOTE (PalaNolho @ May 2 2008, 08:02 AM) *
About Mystic Adepts:
- is there any restriction on the spellcasting skill rating? lets say, i have 4 Magic alocated for magic skills. can i have 5 ranks on Spellcastig ??


No such limitations. You could have a Magic of 1 for Sorcery/Conjuring purposes and still have a Spellcasting or Counterspelling or Summoning skill of 5 or 6.
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PalaNolho
post May 2 2008, 08:16 AM
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Another Question

Adiction:
- i have a player with Addiction, Severe (Alcohol). this would give him -6 penalty if he dont drink regulary right?.
- the problem is that i cant find any description on the effect of alcohol on the characters. Drugs and other toxins usually give extra IP or pain tolerance or some increase on Atributs for a periud of time, what about alcohol? is there any description for it?

Mystic Adepts:
- can a mystic adept become a good char? or is just like a "jack of all trades"?

This post has been edited by PalaNolho: May 2 2008, 08:18 AM
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HentaiZonga
post May 2 2008, 08:18 AM
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QUOTE (PalaNolho @ May 2 2008, 01:16 AM) *
Another Question

- i have a player with Addiction, Severe (Alcohol). this would give him -6 penalty if he dont drink regulary right?.


Yes; it's called "Delirium Tremens" in real life.

QUOTE
- the problem is that i cant find any description on the effect of alcohol on the characters. Drugs and other toxins usually give extra IP or pain tolerance or some increase on Atributs for a periud of time, what about alcohol? is there any description for it?


well, Wiki knows all
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PalaNolho
post May 2 2008, 08:20 AM
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DANG !!! you are fast !! ive just hit the POST button and you already gave a replay lol
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Fortune
post May 2 2008, 08:26 AM
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QUOTE (PalaNolho @ May 2 2008, 06:16 PM) *
Mystic Adepts:
- can a mystic adept become a good char? or is just like a "jack of all trades"?


I think that the question is too subjective to properly answer with any degree of accuracy. It will vary widely from game to game and table to table. Mystic Adepts can be min-maxed to great effect, but only in a few limited areas. Don't discount the versatility and usefulness of those Jacks-of-All-Trades though, especially in games of more moderate power levels.
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PalaNolho
post May 2 2008, 07:19 PM
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Another Question

Spirit Powers
QUOTE
Movement
Type: P • Action: Complex • Range: LOS • Duration: Sustained
The critter may increase or decrease the subject’s movement
rate within the terrain it controls. Multiply or divide the
target’s movement rate by the critter’s Magic.


- this affects only 1 target or "all" the enemy targets on LOS at same time ?
- a spirit in the astral plane can aply any power on a creature on the phisical plane?
- if a Materialized spirit i casts a continuous power on the caster then retours to the astral plane, does the effect of the power end on the caster?

Foci
a mage can have LOGIC focis active at same time. ok
- how many focis can he use at same time on a spell. Lets say, he will cast a Sustained spell. Can he use one Foci spellcasting ( to aid on the spellcasting) + foci spellcasting ( to aid on restid drain) + power foci + sustain foci ( tu sustain the spell) ????
- a power foci can be used to resist DV from spells ?
- a foci can only add the bonus to one roll? ( like the same foci add to the spellcasting and resist DV roll for a spell)

Spirits and Edge:
- do spirits use edge? in wich situation?
- can a mage ask a spirit to cast a spell with full power and eged with only one service ?


thanks

This post has been edited by PalaNolho: May 2 2008, 10:42 PM
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