AK 97?, Needs a new number as well 97 make no sence. Options

[Dumori]

The AK 97 would have 1st been made in 1997 to fir with all other numberings of the rifles or be a bad name for a gun as the AK-105 is already out in the world. What number would the gun have?

links for those unaware of this oversight.
http://kalashnikov.guns.ru/history.html
http://kalashnikov.guns.ru/models.html

This little "over site" thing makes the AK 97 seem like a old gun that some how appeared after the rest.

There is the AEK-971
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AEK-971

but being close to 100 years old by the time of sr4 I still dont think that this is the right gun. Plus the fact less that 100 where made.

[Chrysalis]

Most of the guns in Shadowrun are really old guns with bits of plastic glued on to them to look like new guns. AK-97 seemed like a better bet than calling it an AK-47. Same assault rifle just a different name.

[Jackstand]

The AK-97 probably is just that. An old gun. It's the same design that's been in production for seventy years. Since the Shadowrun timeline diverged with our own in 1989, it's safe to assume that the AK-105, as far as the world of Shadowrun is concerned, never existed.

[Wounded Ronin]

Most of the guns in Shadowrun are really old guns with bits of plastic glued on to them to look like new guns. AK-97 seemed like a better bet than calling it an AK-47. Same assault rifle just a different name.

Much like 80s movie props!

[Ed_209a]

"Hmm, AK-47, our game takes place in 2050, 47+50=97, voila, instant technology!"
-SR1 game designers, long, long ago, far, far, away.


I think of the AK97 as a AK105 redesigned for better production equipment, and designed to be smartgun ready. I have no idea where a weapon probably designed in the 2040s gets the number 97. Maybe it is the 97th design, not the year it was released?

[Ed_209a]

Mumbles about stupid double posts....

[Dumori]

Even with that effect the fact remanes that similar guns basically the same thing but light and stronger have been made are now in the 10X series but there was in wikipedia under the name but I can get more info.

[Dumori]

well if its form the 2040s make it the 87 and you can say it was produced in 2047. an just called the AK-10Xs a glitch in the naming.

[CanRay]

I just explain that the AK-97 is the AKM (Modernized AK-47) that is designed to use Caseless Ammo.

Done.

[hyzmarca]

The 97 does stand for 1997, the year of the weapon's release. It isn't an AK-74M, but is instead a new weapon released in 1997. The AK-101 can't possibly exist since it is chambered in 5.56mm NATO and there is no way in hell that the USSR would use a NATO standard cartridge.

[Earlydawn]

I just explain that the AK-97 is the AKM (Modernized AK-47) that is designed to use Caseless Ammo.

Done.

Caseless assault rifles? In my Shadowrun?


BOO!

[CanRay]

Thought all the weapons had gone to Caseless Rounds, save for older weapons.

Am I wrong?

[Earlydawn]

I believe by RAW, you can choose cased / caseless for any weapon in the book.

[Edit: Page 306, under firearms in your hymnal.]

[Fortune]

Not quite ...

Firearms are primarily slug-throwers. Many weapons offer two versions, for standard loads or for caseless ammunition, though the latter is far more common in the 2070s. A weapon can fire either type of ammunition, but not both interchangeably.

[Earlydawn]

Seeing as there are no specifications, how else could you rule it? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/question.gif)

[reepneep]

Unlike in previous models, the number on the AK100 series guns doesn't refer to years, its simply a model number. IIRC the AEK971 is a design that the Russian government is toying around with as a possible replacement for the disappointing AN94.

*edit* Those links also missed the AK107 & 108. They are the same basic design as the rest of the 100 series with the addition of an auto-adjusting weight. */edit*

If you don't like the name, you could just call it the AK132 or something like that.

[Dumori]

I know they missed the 107 & 108 but if you browse a bit more they are easy to find out about. As the USSR never broke up the AK97 could have been made. Also the 10X series has a good number of versions firing none NATO rounds such as 5.45x39mm and 7.62x39mm.

[CanRay]

OK, I'll figure out how the Caseless/Cased Rounds thing is going to work in my game.

Most likely, it's easier to get your hands on Cased Rounds, which would be "Civilian" rounds, but Caseless, while harder to get, comes in all those fancy types that Shadowrunners love. Not to mention no brass, less ballistics.

But it does help to be able to walk into Bob's Booze and Bullets to pick up some Synthvodka and a brick of .45 ACP.

[Wounded Ronin]

I always ignored the casless rounds thing in SR and just had all weapons be cased like today. The whole entire point of caseless weapons was supposed to be a higher rate of fire, and reducing the possibility that smutz would get into the chamber since the chamber would be closed. Since this isn't reflected in SR3 there's really no reason to say any given weapon is caseless.

Now, if someone wanted to overhaul the firearms rules and worked out different reliability and ROF for caseless weapons, that would be fine. Then we could have our bullets embedded in propellant blocks, which we could finger while Bangles songs play in the background.

[Kliko]

in sr3 caseless rounds would take less space increasing clip-capacity with x%... They were also an y% more expensive...

[Wounded Ronin]

Here's a nice background document for people who wanna learn about caseless weapons: http://www.remtek.com/arms/hk/mil/g11/caseless.htm

It always strikes me as kind of poignant how back in the 80s they thought everyone would switch to caseless, before their hopes and dreams got QWERTY'd. When I read Twilight rules about how characters could use G11s in that game which was supposed to have caught on by that time a little tear trickles down the outside of my face.

[Zaranthan]

The whole entire point of caseless weapons was supposed to be a higher rate of fire, and reducing the possibility that smutz would get into the chamber since the chamber would be closed.

I always used them for the fact that they wouldn't leave cases behind on a run. Someone picks up my cases from one crime scene and links them to cases found at another scene, and suddenly my world just got a lot more dangerous.

[vladski]

I always used them for the fact that they wouldn't leave cases behind on a run. Someone picks up my cases from one crime scene and links them to cases found at another scene, and suddenly my world just got a lot more dangerous.

Umm, aren't you still gonna be screwed by ballistic evidence on the bullet itself?

Vlad

[Faelan]

Caseless ammo makes an appearance everytime a new advanced weapons project comes out and the military want to reduce weight or rather increase payload. Looks like it loses again this time it will be to cased telescoped ammunition, along with extensive use of composite materials reducing the weight of the gun.
CT Ammo

[Wounded Ronin]

Today it occurred to me that if we wanted to make a sensible caseless weapon in terms of the rules, we could say that the Ruger Thunderbolt is caseless.

That's why there's no recoil even though the first burst is apparently akin to a burst of 10mm magnum rounds, but why the recoil gets horrendous with the second burst. Because the rounds are flying out so fast and caselessly that the first three bullets leave the barrel before recoil can really take much of a toll on accuracy.