Soy, krill and...rice? Options

[Daddy's Litt...]

In the SR world there is lots of talk about Krill and soy and ‘real food’ and whether it would be a real shortage since VITAS destroyed so much of the world’s population but I was wondering how big a part of people’s world would rice be?

In RL my husband is English and my parents are Japanese. I was raised on my mother’s cooking and my husband and I have each adapted. I’ve learned to cook Yorkshire puddings and different styles of potatoes and my husband has, with some humorous complaints accepted he is eating more rice than he ever thought he would but this makes me think, in the SR world with the Japan-o-corps being so powerful and Japanese culture having far more influence would rice be a bigger part of people’s diet? Maybe as a back lash, not in the UCAS but it is already widely grown in the American south already, there might be closer ties between the CAS and Japan. The Japanese invasion of CFS might have led to changes in the crops there.

More than most grains rice is very labor intensive. Because of the work that goes into making and maintaining the rice fields farmer/peasants are closely bound to them. Some say this is why it became the main crop in feudal Japan. It stopped peasants from moving easily. The same could be done for food crops in the 2070’s could it?

[Rystefn]

I like it. It's also one of the least expensive food items (at least in the modern world), and would make sense to be a staple for the poor and downtrodden masses of the dystopian future.

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

yeah, rice has always been a big part of south americans diet right along with beans where they are pratically a couple.
Now back on topic, rice could be used for a great amount of food on SR, specially for the companies that produce food for those who have soy-intolerance.

[Orcus Blackweath...]

Hmmmm, food has always been used as a weapon in class warfare. Everything from be my friend, here is some food, to you are not my friend, I am going to withhold the food. I could see establishing a nearly feudal economy in some of the fractured areas, such as california, china, and the Indian subcontinent along with others. I have never seen anything telling us where soy is grown. Is the american heartland still the world's breadbasket, or has that changed in 2070.

[Mongoose]

I think in SR, labor is actually a valuable commodity. Consider what happened after the black plauges in Europe; lots of serfs died, and the chaos and upheavel allowed many of the rest to leave their traditional bonds, so you got the basis for a new lower-middle class (lots of "freemen", limited labor pool meaning higher labor costs). SR has a very similar social background.

OTOH, a lot of labor-intensive tasks can be performed by robots and drones. Rice farming would be a good one.

OTOH, there's not so much arable land left, due to the twin dangers of the environmental damage of the resource rush, and the dangers of paracritters etc.

So.... er. I'd say yeah, if you can raise soy, you can raise rice. FASA probably went with soy because its a big crop in the American midwest, so its what the authors know (sort of).

[PBTHHHHT]

Hmmm... interesting DLN, for the chinese, rice in the southern region became one of the main staple foods because you can grow and harvest 2-3 times in a year in that region which is a good thing for a growing population (which it was, and boy did it!). Not sure about the japanese in picking rice, but that's one of the main reasons for the chinese in the southern regions, up in the northern parts they grow grains.

that said by 2070, rice would be a major one because, as in RL, they are developing strains that can grow in saltier water, such as say, saltwater marsh type conditions. which would be profitable and great for the coastal regions and with 2-3 annual harvests, particularly in the warmer regions, it'll be a profitable yield from the land.

growing up as a chinese boy in the american down south, I had rice all the time not just with hme cooking. as mentioned by brazilian shinobi, I love my rice with gumbo, or beans and rice. i think rice and noodles is a big thing for shadowrun, especially the instant stuff.

[hobgoblin]

iirc, lobsters where seen as low grade food until fish catches started. Then all of a sudden it started showing up even on high end menus, and are now considered something for the elite...

[Daddy's Litt...]

In RL japan today the famrers' lobby is very powerful because land is at a premium. That is why they can keep out cheaper western rice. You might see SR corps advancing rice elsewhere to break their power. "Yes Tanaka-san, I know you are a major grower of rice in the prefecture but I, using my corp's extraterritorial status to by-pass import duties-am buying much cheaper Confederated rice for my workers."

[BRodda]

iirc, lobsters where seen as low grade food until fish catches started. Then all of a sudden it started showing up even on high end menus, and are now considered something for the elite...

Lobster was a "trash" fish until fairly recently. They used to feed it to prisoners in Maine and Massachusetts and they had riots a few times because all they were getting to eat were things like lobster.

As for foods; land is not the way to go. To expensive to grow and harvest. To many variables. Give me a large warehouse with vats of stuff I can measure and control. No awakened pest or eccoterrorists or just crappy weather.

I'll post the stuff for meat farms; based on real technology they are working on today. Transportation of goods is so 2010 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[Ascalaphus]

I think soy was originally picked because rice isn't depressing enough. This was supposed to be a game where everyone eats soylent green tofu all the time.

The economic "facts" (presumed value of labor, land, mouths to feed etc) are best tailored so that the answer you like is the logical one.

[BRodda]

I think soy was originally picked because rice isn't depressing enough. This was supposed to be a game where everyone eats soylent green tofu all the time.

The economic "facts" (presumed value of labor, land, mouths to feed etc) are best tailored so that the answer you like is the logical one.

Honestly soy is part of Cyberpunk cannon because it was Japanese in a way rice wasn't. It was new and foreign and people used to say "You better learn to eat tofu and soy because the Japs are going to buy this entire country!!!"

It's why the base currency is the (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif)

Personally, I've worked for some of the largest tech corps in the world. It tends to flavor my world in that the corporationization of the world is everything. Everything is a business deal and contract.

Nothing is personal, everything is business. Except those things that aren't and they are viewed with hate or envy based on the viewer.

So in my world people eat soy and krill because it is fast and easy because who has time to cook. If they want real food they go to a restaurant. (Unless they love to cook.)

[PBTHHHHT]

In RL japan today the famrers' lobby is very powerful because land is at a premium. That is why they can keep out cheaper western rice. You might see SR corps advancing rice elsewhere to break their power. "Yes Tanaka-san, I know you are a major grower of rice in the prefecture but I, using my corp's extraterritorial status to by-pass import duties-am buying much cheaper Confederated rice for my workers."

Heh, I remember reading the local newspaper articles when I was in Japan two years ago and it had the scandals about one distribution company 'cutting' their rice with cheaper imports with people and selling it as japanese grown rice. That and the shock when people in blind taste tests not being able to pick out their native grown rice. The shock, the horror! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

In some ways, kinda reminds me of years ago when the California wine makers competed in the wine competition and shocked the wine growers of France.

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

iirc, lobsters where seen as low grade food until fish catches started. Then all of a sudden it started showing up even on high end menus, and are now considered something for the elite...

Not just lobster, but cod too. 50 years ago it was what squatter used to eat, now it is rich people food for special occasion just like, but not so expensive like lobster.

[Saint Sithney]

I think in SR, labor is actually a valuable commodity. Consider what happened after the black plauges in Europe; lots of serfs died, and the chaos and upheavel allowed many of the rest to leave their traditional bonds, so you got the basis for a new lower-middle class (lots of "freemen", limited labor pool meaning higher labor costs). SR has a very similar social background.

OTOH, a lot of labor-intensive tasks can be performed by robots and drones. Rice farming would be a good one.

OTOH, there's not so much arable land left, due to the twin dangers of the environmental damage of the resource rush, and the dangers of paracritters etc.

So.... er. I'd say yeah, if you can raise soy, you can raise rice. FASA probably went with soy because its a big crop in the American midwest, so its what the authors know (sort of).

Well, Seattle, for instance, has a population of 8 million. That's like the current population of Hong Kong

If anything, people are a nuisance.


As for crops, corn is king in America. I don't see that changing ever.

[Karoline]

The truth is that bamboo would actually be the staple food of SR, as well as a building material of choice. Bamboo grows at an absurd rate (Up to a foot a day I believe) and is actually very good for you. There are... I think it was 50ish verities of bamboo, and some make for great eating and some make surprisingly good building material. I don't remember if it is the food kind or the building kind that grows a foot a day, but either way, sounds like the sort of plant that SR would love.

[Daylen]

and soy is nasty... nothing says dystopian like eat a fake burger or colored flavored paste. It wouldnt sound so depressing, but it would cost the same or less, to say oh everyone eats red beans and rice; is a cajun invashun! oh all we get is rat? dats ok, der pretty good when ya do a cajun bbq wit em.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2NIZexqb4U

not very depressing, makes me hungry though...

[Whipstitch]

yeah, rice has always been a big part of south americans diet right along with beans where they are pratically a couple.

Yep, and the combination is actually one of the cheapest ways to create complete protein. Beans and rice is far more than just a Cajun thing, that's for sure.

[Daylen]

yea but only people from south louisiana seem to know how to make it taste so wonderful.

[Whipstitch]

That's awfully provincial, but whatever you say. I'm partial to the curry I had in Jamaica once, personally. Same basic ideas, only better.

[Snow_Fox]

In Colonial America lobster was the food for the poor, so much so that it was often written into the contracts of indentured servants that they could only be served lobster twice a week.

Personally, I wonder who was the guy so desperately hunger that he took a fork to what looks like a giant roach?

Heh, I remember reading the local newspaper articles when I was in Japan two years ago and it had the scandals about one distribution company 'cutting' their rice with cheaper imports with people and selling it as japanese grown rice. That and the shock when people in blind taste tests not being able to pick out their native grown rice. The shock, the horror! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Yeah there was crop failure a few years ago and they had to import ameircan rice which was cheaper even with shipping aronud the world, than the home grown stuff and they printed special directions for cooking 'american' rice. Actually there's little differnece between long grain rice but there is a short grain rice the Japanese do not export that looks like little round pin heads. They've started growing it in california in the last few years and that really does taste different from what we poor westerners think of as 'rice.' It is very sweet.

I know corn is king in the US, today, but I think DLN has a point that in 2070 there might be other elements involved. I've raised the 'soy' issue in the past and although it's big in the dystopian cyber punk world the massive losses of population to VITAS coupled with the fact that the US and CAS kept the bulk of their crop lands intact means that real food in those countries and the NAN should not be an issue. That having been said how much would the Japanese culture and markets would feed into the change of cash crops.

I like the idea of the Sato's Imperial Occupation troops in California changing over the local crops. "We don't care what you're family's been growing here since 1859, we are converting it to our rice fields" How long or ever could you rescue the fields from rice paddies back to dry soil?

This could actually be a whole section of runs. We've done runs for agro farms and small businesses and stuff but the idea of whole crop selection?

on a more posative note could rice be the solution to the low ocuntries? I know there's lots of toxic stuff on the north sea coast but it might be a way for the Dutch to finally get ahead since they don't have to completely reclaim the soil.

[Dahrken]

Netherlands are probably too cold for decent rice production, even with genetic tinkering.

From a Corporate viewpoint, soy has some advantages over rice. It can be stored as raw proteins that can be flavored/processed into whatever is the flavor of the moment, and by vertically integrating the food process from the soy to the prepared meal, you concentrate value. Also making food into something industrially processed rather than grown and home prepared, you make the whole thing capital-intensive, and that means control.

From a genre perspective, it increase the alienation feeling : your eyes and tastebuds are deceveing you, even your daily meals are a lie as everything is basically the same bland stuff, disguised with chemical dressing that is probably bad for your health just to save the corps a few (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) .

Cooking is no longer a pleasure but just tossing something in the microwave to keep you alive.

[Garou]

Lobster was a "trash" fish until fairly recently. They used to feed it to prisoners in Maine and Massachusetts and they had riots a few times because all they were getting to eat were things like lobster.

I find that incredible. But Lobster has been expensive at least since i as 13 (i'm 28), and that's absurd here in Brazil, because we are a frigging coastal nation. All you guys have to remember that sometimes, exporting foods is more profitable than consuming it locally. And some species of food cannot (with 2010 tech at least) be grown outside their natural enviroment. And Example is the Brazilian crab, that only breed in saltwater marshes near the sea, and defies any kind of artificial enviroments. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Picky little buggers.

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

I find that incredible. But Lobster has been expensive at least since i as 13 (i'm 28), and that's absurd here in Brazil, because we are a frigging coastal nation. All you guys have to remember that sometimes, exporting foods is more profitable than consuming it locally. And some species of food cannot (with 2010 tech at least) be grown outside their natural enviroment. And Example is the Brazilian crab, that only breed in saltwater marshes near the sea, and defies any kind of artificial enviroments. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Picky little buggers.

Another example that is given in Shadowrun (can't remember the book, though) is cacau. You can't grow cacau on a controled enviroment, unless the controle enviroment is a few acres of Atlantic Forest.

[hobgoblin]

Not just lobster, but cod too. 50 years ago it was what squatter used to eat, now it is rich people food for special occasion just like, but not so expensive like lobster.

ah, cod. being a norwegian who's family have a history of coastal fishing, dried/salted cod is a familiar sight (tho one i have never really gotten a taste for myself).

heck, so is lobster and crap. And snow_fox's comparison between lobsters and roaches are interesting, given that crab is basically the oceans variations on spiders.

but then some places eat deep fried tarantula, so mileage may indeed vary...

[Daylen]

provincial, maybe but to go into it further would be far beyond the scope of this forum. I will say that I was more refering to how I see yankees make anything with beans; boiled or steamed in 10 minutes with little to no meat and spices which I find terrible.