The rich eat differnetly from you and me, Y12 for a soy caf? sure Options Track this topic Email this topic Print this topic Download this topic Subscribe to this forum Display Modes Switch to: Outline Switch to: Standard Linear+

[Snow_Fox]

I was reading Bourdain’s new book Medium Raw and it brought up something very interesting in food culture. In the dystopian world of SR how often do we hear that the ultra wealthy eat ‘real’ food while we get by on soy caf and krill burgers(do you really want to eat something from those toxic waters?) but Bourdain raises a very interesting point, that all too often the very rich are not eating any better than we mortals do, in fact they often eat worse but don’t know any better. At the very least they pay a heck of a lot more for the exact same thing we eat.

I won’t quote directly from Bourdain because I respect him but he hits this theme a couple of times. In the chapter meat he talks about the ubiquitous hamburger and the problems that it has gone through. What is a stable of cook out and greasy spoons became yuppified with such brand names as the Kobe-burger, probably made from meat that never went near Japan which would be an absolute waste of real Kobe beef, and now after many chefs have had their way the new concept brought out by the Minetta Tavern- the classic burger of just grilled beef on a bun with lettuce and a slice of tomato, for only $26. He says it is a very good burger (Just add lots of swear words for how good and you’ll know how Bourdain feels about it) but what burger is truly worth $26? It isn’t but the rich will pay for it.

Pushing the mark a little more in his chapter “The Rich eat differently than you and me” he writes about a place in the Caribbean where the rich and shameless get together to make catty comments, be seen and tell each other they are wonderful and the surgery makes them look days younger. Bourdain goes into detail about the crowd and no I didn’t steal any of his descriptions but I couldn’t help but think of SR fat cats .The top dog club got away with serving a poor quality lentil soup for $38. A peasant dish that cost the chef pennies to make but they’re told it’s wonderful. It’s in the place of the moment and they’re told it’s authentic and they don’t question. And like the emperor’s new clothes no one dares to think about questioning it. A fool and his money is soon parted. Probably with a nice tip added on.

So this raises the question in SR do the wealthy really eat better or is that a sign of people who really know what they’re doing as opposed to the posers and climbers and can runners actually have fun finding authentic food as a part of the role playing? Digging oysters in Puget sound yup saw those boats come in? A road side BBQ place in Tennessee-all the riggers stop here, A greasy spoon in Manhattan, I sear this Ed is better than the luxury burger I had in MSG last night and so on. Personally I’ve had gastronomic delights in one of Boston’s finest places and eaten well at a road side clam place in Plymouth and actually remember having more fun in Plymouth, even if they did have John Alden Burgers and Pilgrim fries on the menu.

[Daylen]

I expect like now there is a mixed lot. Some who want to feel they are having something lesser mortals can only dream of will pay 30 bucks for a badly cooked burger and oversalted fries. Some mega wealthy will drive their 20 year old beat up pickup truck to the local BBQ joint wearing work cloths that came from the same place mechanics use and eat there because its the best BBQ around. And plenty inbetween.

[tagz]

Sounds about right from what I've seen. My work takes me from various restaurant to restaurant, not to eat but to work in their kitchens. I've seen the entire gambit run, and from my experience the places that are considered gourmet and upscale tend to have more issues with cleanliness and sanitation then chain restaurants and such. Chain "family" restaurants tend to be real bad though.

But sanitation aside, yes, I've seen them serve extremely cheap food at country clubs and restaurants the President of the United States might dine, and then charge $20-$30 what it might cost elsewhere. $34 Ruben? Yep, seen it. The meat came in the same kind of box as a mom & pop's I was in earlier that day.

I think what it comes down to is nobody really knows what they're eating when they don't prepare it themselves. I've stopped eating out so much, that's for certain.

[Traul]

Don't forget cyber. The rich who actually enjoy eating will get a taste booster and you won't fool them with low quality stuff.

[Snow_Fox]

there's no reason to think the guys Boudain is writing about in 2010 have naythnig wrong with them but they're told it's gormet and like the emeror's new clothes, no one of the silicon geeks wants to call it for fear of standing out from the crowd. They've all said it's good, if ou say it's crap, you're saying they don't know what they are talking about, and no one wants to open that can of worms.

[Snow_Fox]

I mean you ever buy a $5 cup of coffee at Starbucks? You can get a poerfectly good cup at diners for what? $1-1.50 Is the Starbucks coffee really that much better? but you pay for it.

[Voran]

I think its kinda a sliding scale. There's the 'rich' and 'powerful' that eat what they think is real food and pay out the nose for it. Then there are the godawfuluberrich and uberpowerful that have the resources and inclination to do a 'quality control' check to see they're really getting their money's worth.

In regards to the excellent Mr Bourdain, if I were really rich and really interested in the quality of my food, rather than being catty and snobbish about it, you'd hire someone like Bourdain to check out the quality of the crap you're actually eating to see if its high quality.

I'm a middle class dude, I know what kinda food I like, but I don't know if its the best quality, I am unsure I'd be able to tell the difference between a steak I normally eat, and a "Um yeah, this steak cost me 300 bucks". Make me a millionaire suddenly, but that doesn't mean my ability to discern quality has magically gotten any better.

Basically, I'm concerned with the crap vs ok/good checkmark on my food, rather than the ok/good vs omgorgasm.

[Traul]

I think you are trying to mix two very loosely related topics. The examples you give are about restaurants. SR describes what people eat everyday.

[DuckEggBlue Omeg...]

In SR it's not a matter of the rich getting the same thing at a premium price, they are actually getting a different product all together.

[CanRay]

I joked about the difference in cost of artificial flavouring in one of my stories... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

What the rich have is more ACCESS and CHOICE than the poor. At the bottom, you have the bums on the street eating unflavoured NutraSoy. At the top, you can have NutraSoy with however much flavouring you want if you're in a hurry, or nuke up some pizza if you're less so.

In the end, the folks that are higher up are usually too busy to eat better, as they have to fight hard to keep their position, but that's a different discussion.

[Yerameyahu]

Since when does respecting someone mean you don't quote them? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[MikeKozar]

This actually came up with my last character creation. My guy was a professional game hunter out of the Salish-Sidhe Council, a member of the Cascade Ork tribe. It seems entirely reasonable to me to assume that with the SSC forcing the lands back into a natural state, that they get things like fresh vegetables and farmed meat. They might not be running the kind of factory farms that are profitable today, but I don't see any reason that a First Nations kid wouldn't grow up on bacon and eggs.

When he came to the sprawl, that was his biggest bit of culture shock - how awful the food is, and how much people will price-gauge for real stuff. He took it for granted that you could crack open a jar of peppers to throw on your eggs in the morning. Hell, eggs aren't a luxury, they're a by-product of doing your chores! Eat 'em before they go funny, gotta stay ahead of the chickens!

But with all of the agricultural land ceded back to the NAN, and the NAN being unwilling to use the semi-toxic farming techniques developed in the 20th century...yeah, I can definitely see how real food might get scarce in the sprawl.



As to Snowy's original question, I suspect that the reason the rich don't eat better then the poor in 21st century America is that we all have it so good, food-wise. As soon as we start to see scarcity, or meat shoots to $50 a pound, I think the class divide is going to start producing some very tangible differences in how the other half lives.

[hobgoblin]

I think what it comes down to is nobody really knows what they're eating when they don't prepare it themselves. I've stopped eating out so much, that's for certain.

makes me think about the number of city kids that turn vegetarian after visiting a butchers place.

[Badmoodguy88]

Heston: Listen to me chummer, you gotta tell em. Soylent green is people! We gotta stop them, some how!
Ghoul: People you say? Waiter, one soylent green please.

[LivingOxymoron]

You know... you bring up an interesting point, though.

See, I can totally see the rich being the ones eating "real" food as a status symbol, and just to be able to say "I can eat real beef whenever I want". I mean, the dystopian world that is SR has said that soy and krill are the standard foodstuff because everything else is so expensive. But it seems to me that its expensive because the agrocorps make sure its expensive, because they know that people buy the hype and status just as much as they buy what supposedly tastes better.

I remember a while back that Gourmet magazine did a blind taste-testing of several types of Vodkas at a posh, very hip and expensive bar in NYC. Most of the people, who SWORE that they would only drink Grey Goose or some other "Super Premium" brand ended up picking plain old Smirnoff as the best. Same with wine. A noted wine magazine got several wine critics together and poured several types of unlabeled bottles for them, only telling them the varietal (Pinot Noir, Chardonnay, etc.), where it was from, and the price. The deception, though, was that they were giving them a glass of "$150 a bottle Pinot Noir from Napa County", and later a "$12 bottle of Pinot Noir from the Central Valley". Except it was the same wine. The critics raved over what they thought were the expensive bottles, and assigned all of the negatives to the "cheaper" ones in almost every single case.

So, here's what I think:

"Real" Food, at least in the Metroplexes, is expensive because of ultra-inflated prices, but JUST AFFORDABLE ENOUGH that an average wage-slave family could splurge on a "low quality" steak dinner every now and then. Meanwhile, the local posh steakhouse buys the exact same steak, prepared in the exact same way, and charges the rich and beautiful 6x or more. Why? Because its the place they're going to, with the beautiful aloof Maitre'D and the reservations you need to have a month in advance to get.

On the other hand... there are probably "Gourmet" Soy and Krill restaurants. Soy is probably hyped like wine to the rich, with subtle "flavor profiles" based on who grew it and where, paired with "Celebrity Chefs trained on the cutting edge of molecular gastronomy" to coax all the very best flavors out of it, mixed with rare herbs and spices from exotic places in the world. I'm sure most of it is total bullshit, but the rich and beautiful will lap it up.

The irony is that the masses eat soy and krill, altered by additives and techniques to resemble other foods. And this is the food of the masses. Yet today, chefs like Homaro Cantu in Chicago and Feran Adria in Spain (who's restaurant El Bulli is called the greatest restaurant in the world) use those exact same techniques and command praise and high prices. Amazing how today's gourmet is tomorrow's peasant food, and vice-versa.

[hobgoblin]

reminds me of this: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Car_Warriors

[Daddy's Litt...]

A couple of years ago, Snow Fox hosted a small New Year's Eve party that had taste testing different brands of champgne and 'sparkling wine.' The most popular of the night was a french Moet but the #2 far an away was Korbel that goes for about $12-14 a bottle.

I think her point is that the rich might not really be getting stuff that is too much better, but think that they are because there is a high price tag attached to it.

[Daddy's Litt...]

Since when does respecting someone mean you don't quote them? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I asked her about that too. She said "It's a new book, I don't want to give people the good stuff and detract from sales."

[Fauxknight]

I think its kinda a sliding scale. There's the 'rich' and 'powerful' that eat what they think is real food and pay out the nose for it. Then there are the godawfuluberrich and uberpowerful that have the resources and inclination to do a 'quality control' check to see they're really getting their money's worth.

Which is primarily a difference between old money and new money. The ones who work thier way up to that level might eat the $30 burger with friends every once in awhile, but they're day to day burger is still going to be the $5 one that is just as good or better.

[nezumi]

I actually just ate dessert at Brennan's last night, so I can appreciate this (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) (Only went there specifically for the red room. I'm definitely a cheapscate.)

Was the champagne good? Yes. I could have identified it compared to a $12 bottle of champagne, but I doubt I would have identified it from a $40 bottle. (Yes, I know it's not actually 'champagne'.) So I certainly realized I was paying a 50% markup on atmosphere, namebrand and having a delightful waiter in a suit. It's the same with shoes. Do you think a $200 pair of nikes makes me run faster than a $20 pair of k-mart specials?

Now certainly, in Shadowrun the big difference is 90% of the western population is now right around or below the poverty line, and I don't think Snow Fox is arguing against that. However, if you contrast the food between the middle class and the upper class, it doesn't seem unreasonable to assume that, in many ways, the only difference will be the price. Even accepting that the upper class will have access to 'real' food more often, I question how often they would take advantage of it. Much of our best food is food of poor people. Lobster, oysters and caviar, for instance, or anything cajun. I expect the same thing with soy. The thing about soy is that it has little or no inherent flavor - it is flavored precisely to the tastes of the customer. In theory, you can make a hamburger from it that tastes mnore like hamburger than hamburger. Just like right now Brennan's has a specialty salad made up mostly of iceberg, and sells water which, chemically, is in every way identical to the 'house water', so I would also expect them to sell soy-based food with house flavorings.

[Yerameyahu]

You mean that lots of cuisine *used* to be poor food. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) It goes in cycles, and the price changes mean that poor people can't afford it anymore. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[DuckEggBlue Omeg...]

"Real" Food, at least in the Metroplexes, is expensive because of ultra-inflated prices, but JUST AFFORDABLE ENOUGH that an average wage-slave family could splurge on a "low quality" steak dinner every now and then.

See I go with 'real' food being not affordable at all. Your average wage slave buys "premium" soy products, now with advanced texture treatments and colouring so real you'd swear you were crunching on a real carrot, but real food simply isn't an option, and the futher you go down the economic curve the more bland and less flavour the soy gets.

Today we see a lot of false premium stuff going on, but it requires a lot of marketing to get people to pay a lot more for marginal improvements in quality and create these artificial price gaps. My take is that in the future that is SR however, the ubiquitousness of soy products and the experience Corps have producing and working with it, make it easier for a corporation to ACTUALLY alter the quality of your fake food, than it is to try and convince you through marketing. The con is that it doesn't cost any more to produce premium soy products than the regular stuff in the first place.

'Real' food is solely for the rich. It usually isn't 'better' than premium soy products, and at the lower end is the kind of stuff we simply wouldn't accept by modern standards, but it's a status thing - "See this piece of gristle, it's HUGE, won't find that in some fake soy steak, no sir, that's how you know it's a REAL steak, you could chew on this thing for hours, I tell you those poor bastards don't know what they're missing."

High quality real food is the domain of the MEGA rich. That's how I treat it anyway, it a simple thing that helps to illustrate the difference between the distopian future and now when a character says "I'm going to splurge and buy some real bacon and eggs for breakfast" and you reply with "Sorry, I don't think there are any 5 star restaurants open at 6am". Not to mention the joy of a simple description of genuine high quality food they're eating sending the players into ultra paranoid mode, trying to figure out if Mr. J is a Big 10 CEO, or if they're just stuck inside a UV host.

[Doc Chase]

I seem to recall SR4 fluff saying soy and krill were being phased out due to widespread soy allergies cropping up in metahumanity after the blitz of the 50's and 60's. Companies such as Natural Vat, whoever took over Monsanto(lol) and the Azzies have genegineered foods to increase output and make things tasty.

[Bira]

The whole soy thing is a bit silly, especially if you go with the vastly reduced population figures Shadowrun gave us in editions past (I don't know if they've changed that in SR4). If you can feed 6 billion people with "real" food today, you can feed 3 billion just as well in the Sixth World. "Soy everything" also gets a little old after a while. It seems to be a joke that got out of control and became a "setting fact".

[CanRay]

Which is when you get really cheap, and serve up the "I Can't Believe It's Not NutraSoy"!

[Johnny B. Good]

I seem to recall SR4 fluff saying soy and krill were being phased out due to widespread soy allergies cropping up in metahumanity after the blitz of the 50's and 60's. Companies such as Natural Vat, whoever took over Monsanto(lol) and the Azzies have genegineered foods to increase output and make things tasty.

I remember a certain bit of fluff in Bug City about the QuickMeat (Or something similar) company making cows that grew to full size in just several months. They also have the worst working conditions in the city, but whatcha gonna do?

[stevebugge]

I was reading Bourdain’s new book Medium Raw and it brought up something very interesting in food culture. In the dystopian world of SR how often do we hear that the ultra wealthy eat ‘real’ food while we get by on soy caf and krill burgers(do you really want to eat something from those toxic waters?) but Bourdain raises a very interesting point, that all too often the very rich are not eating any better than we mortals do, in fact they often eat worse but don’t know any better. At the very least they pay a heck of a lot more for the exact same thing we eat.

I won’t quote directly from Bourdain because I respect him but he hits this theme a couple of times. In the chapter meat he talks about the ubiquitous hamburger and the problems that it has gone through. What is a stable of cook out and greasy spoons became yuppified with such brand names as the Kobe-burger, probably made from meat that never went near Japan which would be an absolute waste of real Kobe beef, and now after many chefs have had their way the new concept brought out by the Minetta Tavern- the classic burger of just grilled beef on a bun with lettuce and a slice of tomato, for only $26. He says it is a very good burger (Just add lots of swear words for how good and you’ll know how Bourdain feels about it) but what burger is truly worth $26? It isn’t but the rich will pay for it.

Pushing the mark a little more in his chapter “The Rich eat differently than you and me” he writes about a place in the Caribbean where the rich and shameless get together to make catty comments, be seen and tell each other they are wonderful and the surgery makes them look days younger. Bourdain goes into detail about the crowd and no I didn’t steal any of his descriptions but I couldn’t help but think of SR fat cats .The top dog club got away with serving a poor quality lentil soup for $38. A peasant dish that cost the chef pennies to make but they’re told it’s wonderful. It’s in the place of the moment and they’re told it’s authentic and they don’t question. And like the emperor’s new clothes no one dares to think about questioning it. A fool and his money is soon parted. Probably with a nice tip added on.

So this raises the question in SR do the wealthy really eat better or is that a sign of people who really know what they’re doing as opposed to the posers and climbers and can runners actually have fun finding authentic food as a part of the role playing? Digging oysters in Puget sound yup saw those boats come in? A road side BBQ place in Tennessee-all the riggers stop here, A greasy spoon in Manhattan, I sear this Ed is better than the luxury burger I had in MSG last night and so on. Personally I’ve had gastronomic delights in one of Boston’s finest places and eaten well at a road side clam place in Plymouth and actually remember having more fun in Plymouth, even if they did have John Alden Burgers and Pilgrim fries on the menu.

There is a second component, which is where the real cost is. The food may not be substantially different but the venues they eat it in are staffed by hospitality personell with good references, lots of experience and advanced training. The venues themselves are lavishly or properly thematiclt adorned, and the rest of the clientle is screened to insure that the loud and obnoxious are only present if they are significantly more rich than the rest of the rich clientele. In SR this means Meta-Human Chefs (not Auto Cooks) Nicely groomed Human or Elven Servers, Maitre'D's, Hosts etc. They may be eating Soy from the same Ares Mega Farm in Iowa but they aren't eating it from an auto-vat at Stuffer Shack, they are eating it off fine China in a posh dining room with a view of Puget Sound.

[CanRay]

Inside a climate controlled building, so they don't have the smell of Puget Sound to boot.

[stevebugge]

Needless to say any of the employees at one of these fine establishments would make an excellent contact, depending on the venue a connection rating in the 3-4 range isn't unreasonable if say the server is on a first name basis with the Mayor, Corporate Execs, or major Organized Crime players.

[Daddy's Litt...]

That is how SF's mind works. She regualrly has contacts like "executive chef" at one place and "Wine stewart" at another. She is never happy with 'waitress' or 'bar tender'

[Fauxknight]

See I go with 'real' food being not affordable at all. Your average wage slave buys "premium" soy products, now with advanced texture treatments and colouring so real you'd swear you were crunching on a real carrot, but real food simply isn't an option, and the futher you go down the economic curve the more bland and less flavour the soy gets.

...

High quality real food is the domain of the MEGA rich. That's how I treat it anyway, it a simple thing that helps to illustrate the difference between the distopian future and now when a character says "I'm going to splurge and buy some real bacon and eggs for breakfast" and you reply with "Sorry, I don't think there are any 5 star restaurants open at 6am".

I don't see it that way though. Real food should exist outside of 5 start restaurants, its just more expensive and the average wage slave can't afford to eat it all the time. I imagine certain restaurants and stores, once you get out of the low quality discount places, would start to offer real food as premium items. Even going by the Companion lifestyle breakdown, a middle class person splurges on real food every once in awhile.

[Doc Chase]

I remember a certain bit of fluff in Bug City about the QuickMeat (Or something similar) company making cows that grew to full size in just several months. They also have the worst working conditions in the city, but whatcha gonna do?

Eat flash-steaks, apparently.

[CanRay]

That is how SF's mind works. She regualrly has contacts like "executive chef" at one place and "Wine stewart" at another. She is never happy with 'waitress' or 'bar tender'

Like a Saucier?

[Daddy's Litt...]

Yes and please do not get her started.

[Voran]

In some cases though, I realize I can tell the difference between quality. Oddly it comes to certain types of alcohol. Beer is pretty much beer, there's differences in quality obviously, but the good stuff doesn't cost much more than the cheap stuff.

Sake. I've had the cheap stuff, and I've noticed yes there is a difference between the 10-15 dollar bottles and the 30+ ones.

Tequila, same thing. I've had the 'was that tequila or was that listerine?' cheap stuff, and the 'wait...that was tequila? that was beautiful' 100 dollar + stuff.

[Draco18s]

This thread reminded me of this Tomorrow.

[CanRay]

Beer is pretty much beer...

Never drank beer out of a 2 Litre bottle I see...

[Badmoodguy88]

The difference between a 3 dollar steak and a 12 dollar one is the cut of the meat on the same animal. It definitely does make a difference. Some cuts are just plain nasty as a steak ,but delicious in chilly or soup where it is cooked for a long time. The best cut by far is filet mignon, I have heard its texture is very different because the mussel does virtually no work the whole lifespan of the cow. It is a very small part of a very large animal. People even eat it sliced thin and raw.

The other area people spend money on with meat is how the animal was treated and what it was fed. In America we subsidize corn to make it artificially cheap, and because it is cheap it goes into everything. One of the main places it goes is into animal feed. Corn is good for pigs, and when processed it is probably good for chickens but it is bad for cows. They have a very specialized digestion with multiple stomachs. They eat the grass and bacteria breaks down and feeds off the cellulose, then the cow digests the bacteria. Corn makes them very sick, even with specialized feed they need to use antibiotics just to keep the animals alive. The meat industry's over use of antibiotics is one of the things contributing to producing antibiotic resistant strains of bacteria. I know multiple people that get grass fed beef mostly because of a morality thing, but also they don't want to eat the chemicals. OR the hormones. They need to go through a lot to get it too. They know a farmer by name that sells grass fed beef, they call him up like once a year for a quarter side of beef, he drives into town, and they have this clandestine meeting in the back of a Wallmart with a cooler. But that's just what you have to do if you don't live in the country. Oh and I guess you could pay through the nose at some specialty butcher but I actually don't know of a place that does that. I guess it's probably supposed to taste better too. I could see an animal picking up the flavor of what it eats it's whole life. And for example if a cow eats onions it's milk tastes like onions. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

People also pay for fee range beef. That I guess is one level better in terms of quality and morality. It is probably also grass fed at that point (except for maybe in the winter). I could see the texture being different but I have not had enough free range or grass fed steak to know the difference.

The other thing that people pay for is aged beef. It is hung up an left to basically dry out some. Sometimes for a couple months. This concentrates the flavors as the meat dehydrates slowly. This is why steak in a good steak hows is so stupendously expensive.

But you usually don't get that in a steak house. Any chain steak house and a great many other restaurants as well get steak pre-grilled and flash frozen. I kid you not. They just heat it up. Saves on time and also they can control the cooking. Looks medium rare but still cooked enough to kill off salmonella. Salmonella does kill people, especially kids, which is a tragedy, and even when it does not kill you it is very hard on your kidneys and liver and can shut them down or permanently damage them. Outback steak house tastes purity good so I would not turn it down but I also don't pay to go to places like that. If I know how to cook it better I don't see a point in spending 20 bucks to eat it in a restaurant.

I eat cheap meat and not a lot of it. Probably has added hormones in it. Probably came from a sick cow or chicken that was treated horribly, raised by people that were paid horribly, slaughtered by people that were paid horribly and work in horrible conditions but the meat tastes good and I'm not rich.

In another topic there was a discussion about "what was in the bag" of expensive stolen loot. It was probably a cut of free rang grass fed organic filet mignon beef. In the 2070's the price would probably be outlandish.

[Doc Chase]

Filet mignon is the diamond of beef - Grossly overpriced.

The difference between a 12 dollar steak and a 30 dollar steak isn't just the cut - it's the grade of meat. USDA grades have a lot to do with where a cow goes when it's slaughtered. Prime cuts are sold to high-end establishments. Choice and Select grades - the ones you and I get 99% of the time - go to steakhouses, grocery stores, and the like. Certain 'classes' of beef, such as Black Angus, Hereford, or Kobe only suggest how the cow was raised and some can fetch a higher price. You or I rarely will get a Hereford or Kobe sample simply due to price. I could get a Kobe beef burger, but those are bloody expensive.

Ironically, Select cuts are the lowest food-grade quality, yet it's the 93% fat free hamburger you see in the market which tends to be the more expensive version. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

The rich eat Prime beef - Sure, your filet mignon, high quality roasts and Kobe porterhouses. They get the highest grade of ingreedients prepared by the highest trained chefs. I'm going to call shennanigans on the precooked steaks in steakhouses claim - If this was the case, then they wouldn't be asking me how I want said steak cooked and we would not have the health department regulations on the cooking of meat and poultry that we do today.

[LivingOxymoron]

The whole soy thing is a bit silly, especially if you go with the vastly reduced population figures Shadowrun gave us in editions past (I don't know if they've changed that in SR4). If you can feed 6 billion people with "real" food today, you can feed 3 billion just as well in the Sixth World. "Soy everything" also gets a little old after a while. It seems to be a joke that got out of control and became a "setting fact".

I think its mostly justified in game due to the fact that, though wars and disease and other catastrophe, many of the industrialized nations ended up with so little workable land that they had to switch over to what was cheapest to produce in bulk.

There are some exceptions, however. I would imagine that in Aztlan, many of the poor actually subsist on the same "real" food that they do today.

[LivingOxymoron]

In some cases though, I realize I can tell the difference between quality. Oddly it comes to certain types of alcohol. Beer is pretty much beer, there's differences in quality obviously, but the good stuff doesn't cost much more than the cheap stuff.

Sake. I've had the cheap stuff, and I've noticed yes there is a difference between the 10-15 dollar bottles and the 30+ ones.

Tequila, same thing. I've had the 'was that tequila or was that listerine?' cheap stuff, and the 'wait...that was tequila? that was beautiful' 100 dollar + stuff.

And yet you can get the $100+ stuff at a dive bar in the state of Jalisco for a few hundred pesos a glass, if that.

[LivingOxymoron]

Filet mignon is the diamond of beef - Grossly overpriced.

The difference between a 12 dollar steak and a 30 dollar steak isn't just the cut - it's the grade of meat. USDA grades have a lot to do with where a cow goes when it's slaughtered. Prime cuts are sold to high-end establishments. Choice and Select grades - the ones you and I get 99% of the time - go to steakhouses, grocery stores, and the like. Certain 'classes' of beef, such as Black Angus, Hereford, or Kobe only suggest how the cow was raised and some can fetch a higher price. You or I rarely will get a Hereford or Kobe sample simply due to price. I could get a Kobe beef burger, but those are bloody expensive.

Ironically, Select cuts are the lowest food-grade quality, yet it's the 93% fat free hamburger you see in the market which tends to be the more expensive version. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

The rich eat Prime beef - Sure, your filet mignon, high quality roasts and Kobe porterhouses. They get the highest grade of ingreedients prepared by the highest trained chefs. I'm going to call shennanigans on the precooked steaks in steakhouses claim - If this was the case, then they wouldn't be asking me how I want said steak cooked and we would not have the health department regulations on the cooking of meat and poultry that we do today.

Its interesting... in South America they consider Filet Mignon to be a lesser cut... I've heard a Brazillian say that it was suitable only for ground beef. On the other hand, they place great value on a cut they call "Picahna", or the sirloin cap. We don't get it in the US because of the way we butcher meat here, it gets divided up into several different sirloin cuts.

The Prime/Choice/Select has a lot to do with the "marbling" or intramuscular fat content of the beef, with Prime being the greatest amount. This mostly has to do with both the breed of cattle and their diet.

BTW, "Kobe" indicates both how the cattle was raised AND the breed (Wagyu). Also, Japan does not allow export of Kobe beef at all. What we get here in the states is American-raised Wagyu cattle. While the meat has a higher fat content, it pales in comparison to the stuff you can get in Japan. I know. I lived there for two years and occasionally would drop the huge sum to get it because it was OMG AMAZING. And Kobe burgers are mostly a marketing scam, as they are taking the non-fatty portions of the meat and grinding them up. After all, the whole point of Kobe is the fat content that makes it melt in your mouth tender. They're not going to waste the good stuff on burgers (when they can make much more on steaks), and no one will buy a super fatty-burger, no matter what it is.

[Doc Chase]

Tsh, I will. Do you know how tender those burgers are?

But yes. Merely changing the cut will turn a normally horrible piece of meat into something a five-star restaraunt would serve you.

And yes. I've had American Kobe beef before, and I wasn't impressed. I have had prime cuts at upscale restaraunts, and lemme tell you - THAT is a fine steak.

[Badmoodguy88]

I actually heard this from a friend's bother who works in a five star restaurant. But I searched and found corroboration.

There were other quotes but this one is the best.
http://www.yelp.com/biz/outback-steakhouse-national-city

I ordered a medium steak. The waitress informs me that they are out of medium, but I can have medium well. I was perplexed and asked her how that could be. She informed me that the steaks come already pre-cooked and all the kitchen staff does is heat them up. Ewwww. Never again.

Ask next time you go. They might lie but I doubt it. And this is from a STEAK house if you think Applebees is cooking all their dishes lol no. A lot of the food dishes and sides come pre-cooked. It is fairly standard for some things even in small independent restaurant to have a few items that come pre-made. That artichoke dip appetizer, pre-made. The chilly probably comes in a "boil in bag" a plastic bag filled with chilly that you throw in a pot of boiling water.

I'm going to call shennanigans on the precooked steaks in steakhouses claim - If this was the case, then they wouldn't be asking me how I want said steak cooked

but your asking for medium rare or more done.
Here is how they do it.
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5415883.html

Pre-cooked meats including poultry, seafood and red meats are disclosed which can be prepared by coating a meat with a liquid and dry marinade, cooking the coated meat at a temperature of about 240° F. to 260° F. and freezing the coated meat after the cooking step. The pre-cooked meat of the invention may also comprise additional additives and spices. The invention is directed to pre-cooked meat products, method of preparation and food products containing the pre-cooked meat.

Personally I don't really mind I am not really snobby enough to care. I just care about how it tastes and it better taste like what I am paying for.

Its interesting... in South America they consider Filet Mignon to be a lesser cut

I don't really know what the stuff tastes like, it may all be hype, but I know some parts of the cut aren't very good. The "chain" is the tail end of the cut (the part facing the head I think). It is part of the tenderloin. So some parts might go into hamburger. Also it has "silver skin" (thick white reflective connective tissue) along one side of its length that must be removed and is tricky to cut off.

[KarmaInferno]

The ultra mega wealthy don't eat beef.

They hire mercenaries and big game hunters to seek out and kill the rarest, most dangerous paranormal critters, then have very expensive chefs turn it into steak.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)



-karma

[Doc Chase]

I realize that most non-meat stuff is gonna be premade, but I still have a bit of a problem with places with higher quality than Applebees getting precooked meat, unless it's breaded to be fried. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

That does explain why I never see openings for cooks at chains like that, or why any of my pals who went through culinary school never end up at one of those places.

[Draco18s]

The ultra mega wealthy don't eat beef.

They hire mercenaries and big game hunters to seek out and kill the rarest, most dangerous paranormal critters, then have very expensive chefs turn it into steak.

Book never written:

How to Cook Dragon
(And other mythological dishes)

[Doc Chase]

Book never written:

How to Cook Dragon
(And other mythological dishes)

Alamais: How To Serve Dragon. See, brother, the lower races have learned their place!
Lofwyr: ...

[Badmoodguy88]

The ultra mega wealthy don't eat beef.
They hire mercenaries and big game hunters to seek out and kill the rarest, most dangerous paranormal critters, then have very expensive chefs turn it into steak.

They already do.
Explorer's club. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icHMAwhkURs...feature=channel

Eating Rotten shark (it is what it sounds like) is another fun watch. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbYqznD0R5M

F.Y.I. cockroach tastes like shrimp. They are not all that far apart on the evolutionary tree.

Ogre: "You know that chines place down the street? Their vegetarian stir fry contains free meat!" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lick.gif)

Also roasted rat is supposed to smell and taste awful. Origin of the phrase "I smell a rat". Or as my German teacher was telling. The German version is more polite. Because you don't want to make someone who is so unfortunate to eat rat feel bad you say "I smell a roast." IT makes sense because you are in that case not making an accusation of foul play you are just pointing out the bad smell. He was a young man during WWII and has since passed on. It may have been just a bit of slang the people he knew used.

Also burning human flesh is supposed to smell like burning rat and both are supposed to taste awful. It makes sense because we both eat the same food and all the food we eat has so much flavor.

So it might be politic for when your ghoul team mate is doing his thing to say "I smell a roast."

[Doc Chase]

Mushisushi.

[Voran]

Never drank beer out of a 2 Litre bottle I see...

Sure I have. Just if you're drinking out of such a bottle, you tend not to recall the details of the related evening.

[Doc Chase]

Sure I have. Just if you're drinking out of such a bottle, you tend not to recall the details of the related evening.

And often wake up with questions such as 'Where am I?' 'What happened?' and 'Why am I in a bathtub filled with ice?'

[LivingOxymoron]

I don't really know what the stuff tastes like, it may all be hype, but I know some parts of the cut aren't very good. The "chain" is the tail end of the cut (the part facing the head I think). It is part of the tenderloin. So some parts might go into hamburger. Also it has "silver skin" (thick white reflective connective tissue) along one side of its length that must be removed and is tricky to cut off.

Here's how it breaks down: Generally speaking, the Americans view beef as two ends of a spectrum, where on one side there is tenderness/preparation, and the other side is ease of preparation. The most tender and flavorful cuts of beef also tend to be the ones that take the longest to prepare, as they have much more harder fat or connective tissue, or come from a muscle that gets a lot of work. The basic axiom is fat=flavor. As a result, they must be cooked for a long time to turn them into melt-in-your-mouth deliciousness. Think of a stew that has been simmering all day, or short ribs that have been braised for a few hours.

On the other side of the spectrum, cuts without a lot of fat or connective tissue (think a strip steak or sirloin) can be quickly cooked and remain tender enough to eat, but don't have near the flavor of the slow-cooked types of beef. Also, the longer you cook them, the tougher they become, because the muscle fibers contract quickly and don't have the collegens and fats to break them down.

Therefore, in this country, our culture has told us that quick cooking is primary, THEN you go for flavor. This is why the tenderloin is so popular, because it is a very lean piece of meat, but is super tender because it is a muscle that doesn't get much of any use by the animal. Flavor is pretty good, especially in Prime grade, but IMHO does not hold a candle to really good slow cooked meat. I'll take braised or BBQ any day of the week.

As for the preparation, honestly, its not that big of a deal. A trained chef can break down a whole tenderloin, including the silverskin, in about 15 - 20 minutes. The chain was originally a butchers cut (the cuts that the butcher would keep for himself), because its not a single piece that can be turned into steaks. They make some of the most amazing cheesesteaks, though.

[Badmoodguy88]

The chain was originally a butchers cut (the cuts that the butcher would keep for himself), because its not a single piece that can be turned into steaks. They make some of the most amazing cheesesteaks, though.

My god! Alton Brown, you play Shadowrun? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[CanRay]

In my campaign that failed, the major Mr. Johnson decided to reward some 'Runners with some Megalodon that he caught himself when "He needed to make himself scarce from Seattle for a bit".

A few games before that, they met on the docks, to see him boarding a big fishing ship that was loading depth charges.

He's also been in my stories, and describes one of his "Hunting Rifles" explicitly, a Holland & Holland Double-Rifle in .600 Nitro Express.

[LivingOxymoron]

My god! Alton Brown, you play Shadowrun? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

No, but I did go through culinary school before that episode aired, so I pretty much knew it all anyway.

[Dumori]

Sounds about right from what I've seen. My work takes me from various restaurant to restaurant, not to eat but to work in their kitchens. I've seen the entire gambit run, and from my experience the places that are considered gourmet and upscale tend to have more issues with cleanliness and sanitation then chain restaurants and such. Chain "family" restaurants tend to be real bad though.

But sanitation aside, yes, I've seen them serve extremely cheap food at country clubs and restaurants the President of the United States might dine, and then charge $20-$30 what it might cost elsewhere. $34 Ruben? Yep, seen it. The meat came in the same kind of box as a mom & pop's I was in earlier that day.

I think what it comes down to is nobody really knows what they're eating when they don't prepare it themselves. I've stopped eating out so much, that's for certain.

When I eat out I one always hit every restraunt that worth hitting and tend to only eat that I couldn't cook my self. Unless some on else is paying or its some guys party I cant be a git then.

there's no reason to think the guys Boudain is writing about in 2010 have naythnig wrong with them but they're told it's gormet and like the emeror's new clothes, no one of the silicon geeks wants to call it for fear of standing out from the crowd. They've all said it's good, if ou say it's crap, you're saying they don't know what they are talking about, and no one wants to open that can of worms.

I would have to say in that situation I'd raise my voice. Then I'm that kind of person not a mega rich follow the trends type.

I mean you ever buy a $5 cup of coffee at Starbucks? You can get a poerfectly good cup at diners for what? $1-1.50 Is the Starbucks coffee really that much better? but you pay for it.

It depend's chain wise coffee varryies but I've been in places at least for me an expresso addict that chain coffee is nearly always better. Still coffee chains in the UK don't seam to charge much more that other places of quaility they just up the cost of everything bar the coffee by 100-200% I'm talking £3-5 for a shit sandwich.

[Badmoodguy88]

Coffee is tricky because of freshness issues at every step. Green beans last a few months, once roasted they are best withing a about a month, once ground they are best withing 20 minutes, and of course every one knows how brewed coffee goes bad fairly quick. My brother works in a coffee shop (read total coffee snob: occupational hazard) and they really do try to use it up after a month. Thy take the old beans, grind them up and put them in cold water over night to cold brew the beans to make chilled espresso drinks. It is a cool way to use up any coffee beans you need to get rid of. Tastes good. There are so many ways to make the coffee too. French press tastes grate because of sub boiling water temp and longish brewing time (4-5 minutes). Espresso of course is very different and requires special equipment. Plus there are a tun of verities. People go on about the all the different after tastes. I can't taste them but I do notice a difference in bitterness, and sourness between different kinds. But fun fact 1 in 4 people have more taste buds than the rest of us. So maybe some people really can tell the difference. But you definitely can't taste the subtle flavors if you put any sugar or cream in the coffee, which is fine. Sugar and cream is delicious. Also I honestly think star bucks coffee tastes weak (Frag it. Am I a coffee snob?).

[stevebugge]

Coffee is tricky because of freshness issues at every step. Green beans last a few months, once roasted they are best withing a about a month, once ground they are best withing 20 minutes, and of course every one knows how brewed coffee goes bad fairly quick. My brother works in a coffee shop (read total coffee snob: occupational hazard) and they really do try to use it up after a month. Thy take the old beans, grind them up and put them in cold water over night to cold brew the beans to make chilled espresso drinks. It is a cool way to use up any coffee beans you need to get rid of. Tastes good. There are so many ways to make the coffee too. French press tastes grate because of sub boiling water temp and longish brewing time (4-5 minutes). Espresso of course is very different and requires special equipment. Plus there are a tun of verities. People go on about the all the different after tastes. I can't taste them but I do notice a difference in bitterness, and sourness between different kinds. But fun fact 1 in 4 people have more taste buds than the rest of us. So maybe some people really can tell the difference. But you definitely can't taste the subtle flavors if you put any sugar or cream in the coffee, which is fine. Sugar and cream is delicious. Also I honestly think star bucks coffee tastes weak (Frag it. Am I a coffee snob?).

I drink Coffee without addatives almost exclusively, there is a serious difference between Colombian, Sumatra, Costa Rican and Kenyan

Even within Kona, there is a big difference between the good stuff and the cheaper stuff.

[Dumori]

Yeah when looking for a coffee, not for a caffeine fix. I tend to use the sent of the coffee places as a guide. You can tell if they are fresh roasted ect or how old also long as its not a starbucks they pipe in a lot of places some wired coffee smell. No you're not a coffee snob you are on the same par as me someone who knows enough and can tell by taste what you like. Though tbh I wouldn't mind more coffee snob knowledge.

[Daylen]

Best coffee I've ever had is at Pilot. The worst by far, Starbucks.

My theory is truckers want coffee with maybe some cream and sugar. Coffee house goers seem to order more creams sugars and other flavorings than actual coffee, so when the coffee is week old and burned to a crisp from sitting in the pot too long and someone not knowing the difference between roasting and burning. Least that's what I've noticed from when I was in college and tried starbucks thinking if all they do is coffee it must be good; and traveling too much.

[Yerameyahu]

Psh. There's tons of coffee worse than Starbucks.

[CanRay]

Three words: Jamacian Blue Mountain.

[Doc Chase]

Three words: Jamacian Blue Mountain.

I'm not taking out a personal loan to buy coffee.

[Dumori]

Psh. There's tons of coffee worse than Starbucks.

Agreed but the worse coffee that is sold as quality I'd have to say is Starbucks. I'm partal to what ever beans Costa use for expresso though that's also due the the proximity of a Costa on my way any place.

[Yerameyahu]

Besides, *now* the trendy thing is pre-digested, post-shat coffee. Who knows what it'll be next. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Dumori]

stale 3 day old re heated crap?

[Doc Chase]

stale 3 day old re heated crap?

I know the type they're talking about. Kopi Luwak, an Indonesian coffee brewed from the partially digested beans that civet cats eat and poop back out. The partial digestive enzymes apparently really bring out the flavor.

[Daylen]

stale 3 day old re heated crap?

Whoever is marketing this is a genius! Why? because people are buying it! I wish I was awesome enough to sell people actual crap to consume.

[Badmoodguy88]

Honestly star bucks probably tastes weak because that IS what most people like. Coffee is to bitter for many people. Also the funky flavored coffees do taste good, like candy, but I like candy. Who doesn't like candy?

Also I don't get the bad stuff enough to know the good from the bad. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lick.gif)
Also I don't drink the good stuff all that often. Bad for your heart you know.

Whoever is marketing this is a genius! Why? because people are buying it! I wish I was awesome enough to sell people actual crap to consume.

Some one already is. And they are selling it for $100-$600 a pound. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kopi_Luwak

Kopi luwak (Indonesian [ˈkopi ˈlu.ak]), or civet coffee, is coffee made from the beans of coffee berries which have been eaten by the Asian Palm Civet (Paradoxurus hermaphroditus) and other related civets, then passed through its digestive tract.[1] A civet eats the berries for their fleshy pulp. In its stomach, proteolytic enzymes seep into the beans, making shorter peptides and more free amino acids. Passing through a civet's intestines the beans are then defecated, having kept their shape. After gathering, thorough washing, sun drying, light roasting and brewing, these beans yield an aromatic coffee with much less bitterness, widely noted as the most expensive coffee in the world.

Also I know someone who tried to buy "moose poop in a bag from Alaska" there were multiple bids on ebay and he lost to some other guy who really wanted his moose poop. I don't know what he wanted to do with it but one can make ridiculous speculations. It is funner that way. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lick.gif)

[Yerameyahu]

That's the stuff, Doc. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Good times.

Indeed, Badmoodguy88. People buy it because they *like* it. People also *like* McDonalds.

[Daylen]

I don't like candy. I like coffee. I know I'm a sick individual; I blame math and physics.

[BlueMax]

In some cases though, I realize I can tell the difference between quality. Oddly it comes to certain types of alcohol. Beer is pretty much beer, there's differences in quality obviously, but the good stuff doesn't cost much more than the cheap stuff.

Sake. I've had the cheap stuff, and I've noticed yes there is a difference between the 10-15 dollar bottles and the 30+ ones.

Tequila, same thing. I've had the 'was that tequila or was that listerine?' cheap stuff, and the 'wait...that was tequila? that was beautiful' 100 dollar + stuff.

The beer line raises my hackles. Beers have just as much variation as cheese. Perhaps more simply by including the Belgians.


BlueMax

[stevebugge]

Random Coffee fact, it's not a bean at all, it's the pit of a coffee fruit. Starts round and splits in half while being roasted. The Coffee plant grows wildly in North East Africa and Yemen, everywhere else that grows coffee has had plants originally from those places transplanted.

You may now spend Karma to improve your Knowledge: Coffee Skill by 1

[Daylen]

Random Coffee fact, it's not a bean at all, it's the pit of a coffee fruit. Starts round and splits in half while being roasted. The Coffee plant grows wildly in North East Africa and Yemen, everywhere else that grows coffee has had plants originally from those places transplanted.

You may now spend Karma to improve your Knowledge: Coffee Skill by 1

you should now sepuku.

[BlueMax]

Coffee is tricky because of freshness issues at every step. Green beans last a few months, once roasted they are best withing a about a month, once ground they are best withing 20 minutes, and of course every one knows how brewed coffee goes bad fairly quick. My brother works in a coffee shop (read total coffee snob: occupational hazard) and they really do try to use it up after a month. Thy take the old beans, grind them up and put them in cold water over night to cold brew the beans to make chilled espresso drinks. It is a cool way to use up any coffee beans you need to get rid of. Tastes good. There are so many ways to make the coffee too. French press tastes grate because of sub boiling water temp and longish brewing time (4-5 minutes). Espresso of course is very different and requires special equipment. Plus there are a tun of verities. People go on about the all the different after tastes. I can't taste them but I do notice a difference in bitterness, and sourness between different kinds. But fun fact 1 in 4 people have more taste buds than the rest of us. So maybe some people really can tell the difference. But you definitely can't taste the subtle flavors if you put any sugar or cream in the coffee, which is fine. Sugar and cream is delicious. Also I honestly think star bucks coffee tastes weak (Frag it. Am I a coffee snob?).

A few comments from someone who roasts coffee

Green beans can last up to two years fresh, If you have the right natural environment. Think cool, steady coastal fog and so on. (Testing has shown that vacuum bags and freezing can take greens to 4 years , or
longer. Test in progress) If you way way way inland, then you may be screwed.

Coffee Varietals are just like Wine. Region, farm, time of harvest. Roasting varietals, called single origin in some aspects of the trade, is a trip. There is a certain Guatemalan farm whose coffee oscillates from deep choco flabor to roasted nut. We get beans from them every year and our customers can't believe its the same farm ( they still like it)

@Stevebugge. Not all beans split. Look up Peaberry. Some coffee nuts claim they taste very different but to others, its just a visual defect.

About Starbucks: Some of their coffees aren't that bad... the thing is nobody orders coffee. They offer one of those fat and sugar drinks with hints of caffeine in the background.

As for the old bean tricks, I say: Mocha, latte and so on. If you are burying the flavor, use the old baggy beans.

BlueMax

[stevebugge]

@Stevebugge. Not all beans split. Look up Peaberry. Some coffee nuts claim they taste very different but to others, its just a visual defect.

BlueMax

Tanzanian Peaberry is one of my favorites, but it's propensity for not splitting is something of an anomaly I believe and also the result in a lot of cases of harvesting the immature fruit accounting for it's generally milder flavor and softer acidity in relation to say Keyan AA

What scale do you roast on? Personjal Use, Boutique Commerical, Starbucks uses Drones so we know it's not that large (unless you're actually an AI)

[Badmoodguy88]

*Summons force 9 beast spirit with an unusual optional power.*
"Greeting noble beast I am honored by your presence"
"What great task have you summoned me to perform?"
"Eat this bag full of ripe coffee beans."
"Coffee beans?! But am the mightiest of beasts!!"
"Exactly, if the Asian palm civet can do it then so can you! We'll sell the crap for ¥1000 a pound easy."
-20 minutes later-
*a glowing one foot tall pile of beans with it's own mana warp*
"Excellent!" *deranged laughter*

[CanRay]

And I thought a Ganger eating a bunch of Blueberry Magical Refined Reagents was a bad idea...

[Dumori]

I love how this derailed. From soy to enchanted spirit crap....
I'm sure some some is selling refined coffee beans. They'll have a following too rare expenceive and magic wtf more to the rich need?

[CanRay]

You know, some folks just might go after edible Magic Reagents because they're "Magically Delicious". (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Dumori]

You know, some folks just might go after edible Magic Reagents because they're "Magically Delicious". (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

You know that that needs?
to be posted like this:
You know, some folks just might go after edible Magic Reagents because they're "Magically Delicious". (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[hobgoblin]

I think its mostly justified in game due to the fact that, though wars and disease and other catastrophe, many of the industrialized nations ended up with so little workable land that they had to switch over to what was cheapest to produce in bulk.

There are some exceptions, however. I would imagine that in Aztlan, many of the poor actually subsist on the same "real" food that they do today.

that, and a more aggressive wilderness. When one have birds that can grab whole cattle, things start to get complicated and expensive to maintain.

yea, sure, one could hunt them to extinction, but then there is the militant environmentalists to deal with. The ones that can whistle up a air spirit that can drop a tornado in places where such a thing was unheard of before the awakening (heck, the real life near-militants on both sides of the norwegian wolf issue worries me sometimes). End result is that if you want range fed cattle, you better be willing and able to maintain a small army to protect them.

[Bira]

Its interesting... in South America they consider Filet Mignon to be a lesser cut... I've heard a Brazillian say that it was suitable only for ground beef.

Heh. Whoever told you that was either pulling your leg or trying to purchase filet mignon off of you for cheap (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) . It's actually the most expensive cut of meat you can buy here (with picanha being a close second).

[BlueMax]

Tanzanian Peaberry is one of my favorites, but it's propensity for not splitting is something of an anomaly I believe and also the result in a lot of cases of harvesting the immature fruit accounting for it's generally milder flavor and softer acidity in relation to say Keyan AA

What scale do you roast on? Personjal Use, Boutique Commerical, Starbucks uses Drones so we know it's not that large (unless you're actually an AI)

Out of that list Boutique commercial. Its just hard to get a variety of light roasted beans. Even here at the port for 90% of the worlds specialty beans. Sad really.

But my customers are happy, we love what we roast and well, its fun.
Order of 30 lbs a month.

Starbucks has some great people who learned from Mr. Peet. What did they learn? if you roast it to ash, you can buy crappy beans.
Funny thing though, that wasn't what Mr. Peet was teaching.

BlueMax

[Snow_Fox]

No, but I did go through culinary school before that episode aired, so I pretty much knew it all anyway.

Yeah, a lot of Brown's stuff a good coook already knows but he's fun.

I agreed with the sentiment that the VITAS and Euro-wars had so drastically reduced the population that we wouldn't be doing with out food, soy and krill are standards from the dystopian cyberpunk which SR sprang from and it seems to be a beloved hold over.

Some of the more tender cuts of meat, like fillet mignon, are not necessarily the most tastey.

As for the idea of overhead adding to food costs, supposedly, again per Bourdain, the mark up on food is really slim, the big money is made on the drinks.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Some of the more tender cuts of meat, like fillet mignon, are not necessarily the most tastey.

Quoted for Truth... this is so right!!! I personally do not actually like Filet Mignon... I know, that might make me wierd, but there you go... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smokin.gif)

[Doc Chase]

It's telling when they have to wrap it in bacon to make it sell.

Everything is better with bacon. Even dark chocolate.

[Doc Chase]

DOUBLE POST NOOOOOOOOOO

[Yerameyahu]

Psh. Don't like it? Or don't prefer it above other cuts? ;D
Anyway, I'll take your filets if you guys are too good for them. Hehehe.

[BlueMax]

When it comes to flavor, I prefer Ox tail. You just have to be ready to put the hours into it.

In game, its all about the Stuffer Shack. My characters never plan on living that long anyway.

BlueMax

[hobgoblin]

As for the idea of overhead adding to food costs, supposedly, again per Bourdain, the mark up on food is really slim, the big money is made on the drinks.

at the end point perhaps. but there is a chain at work, and if the input is expensive (because of time pr amount, risk and resource requirements) it will register higher up, no matter what markup the end restaurant would like to put on it.

[Voran]

The beer line raises my hackles. Beers have just as much variation as cheese. Perhaps more simply by including the Belgians.


BlueMax

My apologies. I meant in terms of cost differences there isn't much. I can get excellent microbrews for maybe a buck more than the lesser stuff. So obviously I can go for the good stuff more often when its available. Beer is kinda odd that way, unlike other things with huge variations in price, the cost difference between good stuff and bad stuff, isn't very much. I don't have to pay 10, 15, 30+ bucks a pint to get a really good beer.

[Manunancy]

There's probably several factors in lay there. In my opinion the most prevalents are two :

- beer still has an image of a poorman's drink, something the food snob wouldn't be caught dead drinking - it's prole stuff at least image-wise.
- it can't be stored and aged like wine, which curbs the costs down : storing a bottle for 50 years gets expensive.

[Yerameyahu]

Cheaper ingredients and bigger batches/higher production volume. I don't think it's the 'poor man's/no snobs' thing, in general.

[Doc Chase]

I wouldn't mind trying a Sink the Bismarck.

[stevebugge]

Out of that list Boutique commercial. Its just hard to get a variety of light roasted beans. Even here at the port for 90% of the worlds specialty beans. Sad really.

But my customers are happy, we love what we roast and well, its fun.
Order of 30 lbs a month.

Starbucks has some great people who learned from Mr. Peet. What did they learn? if you roast it to ash, you can buy crappy beans.
Funny thing though, that wasn't what Mr. Peet was teaching.

BlueMax

I used to work at the Caffe Appassionato at Fishermans Terminal back in the late 90's when Dan Donahoe was still the head roaster, very good coffee and a nice variety of light & Dark Blends and Varietals. Since Vita hired Dan away the newer blends & roasts haven't been quite as inspired but the quality is still good.

[stevebugge]

My apologies. I meant in terms of cost differences there isn't much. I can get excellent microbrews for maybe a buck more than the lesser stuff. So obviously I can go for the good stuff more often when its available. Beer is kinda odd that way, unlike other things with huge variations in price, the cost difference between good stuff and bad stuff, isn't very much. I don't have to pay 10, 15, 30+ bucks a pint to get a really good beer.

The limited edition and reserve micros are staring to get up there though, this past winter I saw several 22 oz. limited edition beers north of $10 each. There is a yawning gulf between the prices of plebian beer (Thin Yellow Brewed by the Millions of Barrels) and Craft & Micro Brews, you can frequently buy a halfrack of the plebian beer for less than a 6 pack of a good microbrew. Of course in Washington state our strange liquor laws may be really distorting the market too.

[CanRay]

I think US Laws prevent that. Seeing as you're drinking polluted water, really.

I mean, even Canadian Light Beer would be considered "Malt Liquor" under US Laws. And we don't even have that high an alcohol content!

[stevebugge]

I think US Laws prevent that. Seeing as you're drinking polluted water, really.

I mean, even Canadian Light Beer would be considered "Malt Liquor" under US Laws. And we don't even have that high an alcohol content!

Really depends on the brewery type now, the laws loosened up a lot in the late 80's. The Big Breweries haven't changed because their business madel; is based on mass producing flavorless beer at a low cost. The regional craft & microbrews offer some beers that are very high alcohol, some varieties stronger than 10% Alcohol by Volume. Malt Liquor is more of a branding gimmick now.