Bad GMs Options

[Eisenbeiß]

After reading this "inspiring" link I'd like to know if you ever made similar experiences? If not what was your worst experience with any kind of bad GM?

[Kagetenshi]

I realized I had been one.

Pretty horrible experience, that.

~J

[klinktastic]

If you run into a GM who's like the GM in the story, its time to make a switch, be it to you or someone else GM'ing or to a new group. I know its hard to find new groups. So maybe just tell the GM to play a PC.

[Jizmack]

The GM should first realize the fact that he/she is the most important factor in making sure the game is fun, and take on this responsibility!
There is a grey area between challenging the PCs and irritating them, so it is not an easy task, but if a GM is primarily concerned about his/her own enjoyment out of the game at the cost of the other players then everything will suck.
As a GM you must take this responsibility seriously, else step aside and let someone more qualified run the game.

[J. Packer]

If you run into a GM who's like the GM in the story, its time to make a switch, be it to you or someone else GM'ing or to a new group. I know its hard to find new groups. So maybe just tell the GM to play a PC.

I was this GM once, too, but for a specific reason: my players were all middle school aged munchkins, as was I. I was tired of being made to come up with stories for a group of four or five people whose PCs could, in their eyes, never be defeated under any circumstances. These guys were min/maxers before we knew of the term.

I've gotten better. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[HunterHerne]

I'm not sure if I am a good or bad GM, but I know my GMing style is much more attuned to SR then something like D&D (3.5). I do sometimes go overboard on penalties, like an SR group that was playing for the first time, and neglected the security cameras in a public store front, and magic visibly wielded, with one character identifiable. That character was confronted by a NPC officer, and two others went around in case he ran. He did, and he ended up at deaths door.

[deek]

I've never played SR4, always a GM.

In DnD, I once had a DM that literally created character sheets after killing his players. He pitted us against some stuff that we shouldn't be fighting, but he didn't cheat, just had questionable monster selection. I wasn't ready for being dead in my first 30 minutes of his game session. I'm a pretty lenient GM and actually enjoy making my players (no matter the game) be heroes of epic proportions.

I remember getting ready to leave and the GM asked me where I was going and that I better roll up a new character quickly so I can get back in the game.

[sunnyside]

The crime here would be if he truely just ignored all PC precautions and just spawned some guys where he wanted them, and if he's outright twisting the rules on a whim.

Shadowrun being what it is, however, it's possible to get around most defenses, especially once high grade initiates get involved. And it sounds like the players did make the critical error of splitting up.

There is also something to be said for whacking an uber-munchkin character that makes its way into your campaign, and skyscraper killer here smells of that.

In general I think of SR as a more grown up game (at least if I'm running it), and as such I've got no problem making threats that are quite capable of outright defeting the players in a head to head conflict. Clearing out a secret lab *cough*dungeon*cough* and than having time to search around for secret doors and divying up the treasure and whatnot jsut isn't how I think the game should be played.

[Malbur]

I always worry about being that GM. I like to think that I'm fairly lenient but at the same time sometimes I really just want to kill people for being stupid. I ran a D20 Modern game where the team did ridiculously dumb things... (it was their first time playing a game to their credit). Overall I think that situation was not the best but its in the past now. Currently, I am getting interested in trying to do a oneshot for the group as just a "get this high priority person" but haven't A) made the mission yet and B) I haven't run the idea past the current GM. One of these days though I might suggest it.

[Critias]

Life's too short to dislike what you do in your leisure time.

If your GM is a friend and you don't like how the game is going, talk to him about it and see if he'll change, offer to run a few sessions yourself, tone things down a little bit, or whatever. Do what it takes to get everyone on the same page, and make playing games fun, like it damned well should be.

If you don't consider your GM a friend, no one's holding a gun to your head and making you waste your recreation time at his game table.

[Mesh]

If it's really that bad, counter with even worse style. Build an organlegger with military armor. Instead of following his plot, stop to harvest every body and deliver the parts to your clinic. Keep it up as long as you can. Then quit. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Mesh

[Cain]

I once was a GM like that. I like to think I've gotten better over time, but I still think of myself as a Munchkin GM in recovery.

[toturi]

I have some simple personal rules when I play.

I do my best to read and understand the rules. I ask the GM how a certain line is meant to be understood, if I think there is ambigiuity. Then I sit down and play, and I count each time the GM makes a on-the-fly house rule/rules mod/whatever you wish to call it. Once it hits 10, I ask myself if the problem lies with the game system or with the GM. If it is the game system, I avoid that game system until I hear that the rules have changed for the better. If it is the GM, then I make my apologies and leave that particular game.

Sometimes it is important a good player doesn't necessarily make a good GM or vice versa.

[Ragewind]

I once was a GM like that. I like to think I've gotten better over time, but I still think of myself as a Munchkin GM in recovery.

Heh

[CanadianWolverin...]

I had a bad GM once. Oh, it wasn't the lack of understanding of rules or my other team mates treating it like another dungeon crawl from their D&D games where they loot every corpse before the target is acquired, I figured that more had to do with them being new to the game, but it was the lecture I got about that I shouldn't play a semi-paranoid character who would suggest to the team a job should be turned down if there is insufficient prep time to scout the target ... and then he places 4 camouflaged snipers in the highest positions on the target over looking the entire target area but acted like they only covered particular zones and wouldn't even allow for a surprise test, thus no defence possible and two simple actions later... Well, having my character be targeted for death like that after being scolded as a player, sucked all the fun I thought I might have learning to role play in any system with that group. Shame too, another player was someone I consider a dear friend but if you aren't having fun, I know where I am not welcome. Really tough to find anyone to game with around here as well, maybe table top just isn't for me.

Still, I hold out some hope that SR will have something like NeverWinter Nights to play with other like minded individuals some day. That is what got me interested in role playing games in the first place, those role playing servers where a few lines of dialogue, emotes, the numbers being calculated automatically, and no confusion over where your characters were in the imaginary world while having a DM do the same with NPCs went a long way. *shrug*

[Saint Sithney]

There is also something to be said for whacking an uber-munchkin character that makes its way into your campaign, and skyscraper killer here smells of that.

Word to this.

It sounds like homey from Reddit tried to bring a god-level character into a game with newbie runners and the GM, rather than having the balls to say "lol no," just dropped a cow on him. Reddit killed the rest of the team himself and, somehow, made that logically into "the GM kills everybody!" The fact that the GM popped the sniper is reasonably suspect though..

Still, there was one game. One. That hardly sets a precedent for "kills the party every time."

The GM in that case is bad for not telling the guy up front that he couldn't take his infinity-level mage and his friends delta-ware spy into a new game with starting characters.

Meh.. the worst qualities a GM can have is reluctance to communicate and petty vindictiveness when people don't do as he hasn't bothered to tell them to. Example GM does display both traits..

[Smokeskin]

I have too much respect for the players' attachment to their chars to kill them off in all but the most extreme circumstances - like delibaretly sabotaging the game or repeatedly doing the same stupid stuff. I'd rather just hurt them badly. Being ID'ed, losing gear or nuyen, permanent stat damage, negative qualities, that's all a lot more interesting and consequential than "roll a new char".

[crash2029]

I prefer not to GM. One of my favorite things in the game is to make plans. Take my objectives, gather intel, and formulate strategies. Roleplaying is fun and can require just as much plotting and scheming as infiltration.

In the past, when given a choice between no SR and GM I chose to GM. I remember sometimes being frustrated by some characters. When I lost my temper I often simply had the run finish with no difficulty or oppostion. Passive aggressive, I know. The only TPK's I ever had were by complete accident. I always felt guilty killing a character. C' est la vie.

[cybertier]

We have an 'okay' GM and really rarely we need to use HoG or anything to survive. (Besides final of the second dota book.. That was hellish close.)
The only problem is that stuff often is too simple. His plots are rather hollow and don't go very deep. That again makes complex plans hard because for something complex you need details : (

I still hope someday i can get past my enormous difficulties in developing stories and can GM again.
I seriously would love to but i just can't write plots. Don't know how to start, don't know how to make twists etc : (

On topic of killing characters: I don't see a lot of sense in it. A players puts efford into creating one and death serves very little purpose in advancing story or making a better story. Sure it adds tension. The characters should act like they could die but they should only do so if it helps the story. (Increasing and not decreasing fun for everyone involved)

Anyway: Crash, i love your signature. Especially the last Quote.

[rofltehcat]

Anyway: Crash, i love your signature. Especiallythe last Quote.

Omg don't link to that place (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)
It took all my willpower to close that tab again and not click any further links!

On topic: sounds like both sides could be responsible for that sort of overkill. But I might lack experience, haven't had that many GMs yet.

[cybertier]

Omg don't link to that place (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)
It took all my willpower to close that tab again and not click any further links!

Links to tvtropes it the highest and most educated form of trolling (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
They become trapped, possibly during office hours and they like it.

[nezumi]

I go too far the other way. I tone stuff down a bit too much.

This is why I like Eclipse Phase (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Now I almost *HAVE TO* kill them all off.

[yesferatu]

It goes to the heart of gaming, really.
Is the gm there to flesh out the game and provide balance, or just kill characters off?

I've had gms who were terrible storytellers, didn't understand pacing or scaling and didn't bother to notice players literally falling asleep at the table.
I've seen some pretty terrible players in my day as well.

I can understand a gm fudging the rolls a little for a story, but flat out cheating sucks for everybody.
Sometimes, a hugely important NPC gets fragged out of the gate and it implodes a whole storyline.

Hand of Godding that npc is different than busting out a dragon as part of a routine Lone Star patrol.

[sunnyside]

Word to this.

It sounds like homey from Reddit tried to bring a god-level character into a game with newbie runners and the GM, rather than having the balls to say "lol no," just dropped a cow on him. Reddit killed the rest of the team himself and, somehow, made that logically into "the GM kills everybody!" The fact that the GM popped the sniper is reasonably suspect though..

Still, there was one game. One. That hardly sets a precedent for "kills the party every time."

The GM in that case is bad for not telling the guy up front that he couldn't take his infinity-level mage and his friends delta-ware spy into a new game with starting characters.

Meh.. the worst qualities a GM can have is reluctance to communicate and petty vindictiveness when people don't do as he hasn't bothered to tell them to. Example GM does display both traits..

Sometimes you can get one snuck in. I'm guilty of letting that happen back in my D&D days. The usual GM wanted to take a week off, so I made an adventure. The old GM, in a great example of fast talk, asks innocuously enough if they could bring in a character from a similar campaign, it'd be cool. I say OK, and adventure wrecking followed.

I didn't go the path of this GM...but it was tempting. Of course what I probably should have done was informed him that his superman hears Lois calling, he ought to go.

Sometimes, a hugely important NPC gets fragged out of the gate and it implodes a whole storyline.

Hand of Godding that npc is different than busting out a dragon as part of a routine Lone Star patrol.

Something I've found popular is granting an award for something like that. Not if they're just bieng stupid and shooting a Johnson randomly. But if they figure out a clever way to circumvent an adventure or frag someone way to early I'll toss out a quick Karma award and essentially pull a hand of god.

The reward and acknowledgemet keeps 'em smiling even as the chaingun shots start raining down.

[Draco18s]

In DnD, I once had a DM that literally created character sheets after killing his players. He pitted us against some stuff that we shouldn't be fighting, but he didn't cheat, just had questionable monster selection. I wasn't ready for being dead in my first 30 minutes of his game session. I'm a pretty lenient GM and actually enjoy making my players (no matter the game) be heroes of epic proportions.

I had a bridge dropped on my character (lizardfolk barbarian) because the GM was like that. I didn't die because that would have been "unfair."

Instead I spent the entire combat digging myself out of the rubble.

I quit that night. One of the other players did too (strength drain spider poison on the mage; never mind the fact that the spider was large enough to have its own tower with archers on its back).